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"My Origins" Utility from FTDNA

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  • garyf@pacbell.net
    The My Origins utility is about to be released shortly. I have been checking on this utility and comparing it to the current population finder. The general
    Message 1 of 32 , May 4, 2014
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      The My Origins utility is about to be released shortly. I have been checking on this utility and comparing it to the current population finder.


      The general populations that I have seen in looking over project members "My Origins" results are 


      European 


      New World


      East Asian


      Middle Eastern


      African


      Jewish Diaspora


      South/Central Asian


      With this utility upgrade we are seeing a slight increase in African DNA from very little to an average of about 3 percent. Keeping in mind that it is hard to gauge how much Mexican Ancestry our project members have. 


      Native American ancestry appears to have decreased slightly overall.  


      South Asian appears to have increased slightly in those with this origin. 


      Middle Eastern has gone down substantially to an average of maybe 3 percent or 4. 


      Some project members have the Jewish Diaspora which according to the map provided expands out of Poland indicating that the dominant ref. population is Ashkenazi.  It appears that those members with high Ashkenazi matches are not necessarily showing Jewish Diaspora or even a higher Middle Eastern component than what we now are showing.


      Being that we are an admixed population we are in need of a highly refined biogeographical analysis.  We are still quite a distance away.


      Gary

      Mexico DNA Project Admin.

       



       

    • JOEL SR
      See the match with MA-1 Mal ta male child,  Anzick-1 Montana, Karitiana South American, Mayan, Pima, North Amerindian, East and West Greenlander,
      Message 32 of 32 , May 12, 2014
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        See the match with MA-1 Mal'ta male child,  Anzick-1 Montana, Karitiana South American, Mayan, Pima, North Amerindian,
        East and West Greenlander, Ethiopian, 
        Tatar 3.6%
        Tatar or Tartar (ˈtɑːtə) —n: 1. a. a member of a Mongoloid people who under Genghis Khan established a vast and powerful state in central Asia from the 13th ...
        a member of a modern Turkic people living in the Tatar Autonomous Republic and adjacent regions of eastern European Russia and in widely scattered communities in western Siberia and central Asia.

        total for 17.8% excluding the others. 
         
        Secondary Population (source) Distance
        Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
         
        1.5%
        Anzick-1
        @
        1.49
        1.6%
        Mayan
        @
        1.5
        1.6%
        Pima
        @
        1.5
        1.4%
        Karitiana
        @
        1.52
        1.8%
        North_Amerindian
        @
        1.54
        2.1%
        West_Greenlander
        @
        1.77
        2.5%
        MA-1
        @
        1.81
        1.8%
        East_Greenlander
        @
        1.82
        2.8%
        Chuvash
        @
        2.01
        3.6%
        Tatar
        @
        2.02
        3.4%
        Erzya
        @
        2.03
        1.2%
        Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator
        @
        2.04
        4.8%
        Moldavian
        @
        2.04
        3.8%
        Kargopol_Russian
        @
        2.04
        1.4%
        Ethiopian_Wolayta
        @
        2.05
        2.3%
        Mari
        @
        2.06
         


         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
        Secondary
        Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
        On Monday, May 12, 2014 12:04 PM, "JOEL SR hrjoel3@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
         
        Has anyone read the research printed on MA-1.

        David Reich and Eske Willerslev both indicate the research states upper Palaeolithic Siberian genome reveals  dual ancestry of Native Americans.  

        MA-1 had no East Asian DNA.

        MA-1 autosomal evidenced that MA-1 is basal to modern day Western Eurasians from
        Native Americans and the Mal'ta child.

        The MA-1 referenced 51 Indian tribes, but only 7 tribes are in North America.

        Does anyone have Malochi? I have 10%.  Malochi is 33.6 West Asian and 33.8% South Asian. They appear NA and match a lot of the NAs I know and are related with.  

        Biaka Pygmies were one of the least admixture  except for the Japanese, Chinese.
        28.1 Neo African and 71.9 Palaeo African for 100.0%.

        I think there are still small bands of Indians in the Amazon who have never mixed there genes with any outsiders. 

        This is the group that needs to be tested.

        The Karitiana are used as a reference with the MA-1?

        General reading material
        Patterson et al. (2012) recently published evidence for admixture in northern Europeans between a population resembling modern Sardinians (and the Neolithic Tyrolean Iceman, whose genome was published earlier this year), and, surprisingly Native Americans. The authors attribute the Amerindian-like ancestry element to a North Eurasian population that spawned Native Americans, and which also contributed ancestry to northern Europeans. They propose two possibilities for the origin of this admixture: (i) the Mesolithic Europeans resembled Amerindians, or (ii) there was an influx of Amerindian-like populations from the east during late prehistory. A palimpsest of these two processes may explain parts of the observed signal of admixture.
        In their visits to Cherokee towns in the early 1500s, Spanish explorers and Friars who accompanied them witnessed and made note of Blond-Haired Blue-Eyed and Red-Haired Green-Eyed Cherokees in their official records. The Cherokee themselves know that they have been mixing with light skinned people for over 1000 years and pieces of modern Cherokee art like "Genetic Cherokee Sisters" certainly bears this out.. IF there ever was a candidate for a group of Indians who may be descendants of Nephites who survived the last great battle of the Book of Mormon, the Cherokee should be looked at very closely.

        Tomes have been written, (most notably James Adair's 1775 "History of the American Indians") concerning the possible connection between The Cherokee and the House of Israel. Adair, who spoke fluent English, Hebrew, and Welsh, spent 40 years among the Cherokee and married into the nation, and wrote "23 arguments" comparing Cherokee and Hebrew language, burial customs, mode of dress, etc. and concluded that the two groups were related.

        There are many notable Adair/Cherokee descendants, including the world-famous humorist William Penn Adair Rogers, AKA "Will" Rogers.
           
         
        Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
        On Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:33 AM, "Samuel Dominguez sfdoming@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
         
        Randal makes a very good point which is why I have always been uncomfortable with the word "mestizo". It is essentially meaningless. Show me someone who is not a "mestizo".
         

        Familia Dominguez de Mendoza
        On Saturday, May 10, 2014 9:00 PM, "JOEL SR hrjoel3@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
         
        Halo Soza:

        I do not think there are any tribes in North America that are so isolated to the degree to eliminate any infiltration from the outside world to prevent mixing of genes outside the tribe.

        There may be a few tribes in South America in the Amazon Forest that could be without outside gene mixing.

        The removal of tribes during the 1835 to 1840's to Indian territory placed tribes within range to promote inter-marring and mixing of genes that would eliminate tribal gene exclusiveness. Now you have Cherokee, Sioux, Osage, Comanche etc. that would never had happened in the 1600 to 1700's. Primary enemies now inter marry and live with each other as a single tribe.

        Now add the infusion of all other ethnic groups as all Europeans. Inter-marrying outside the tribe for 4 to 6 generations will eliminate the genetic ancient "Indian" in North America only.

        However, what was the degree of admixture prior to migrating to North America? 

        the MA-1, Mal'ta male child in Siberia Russia dated 24, 000 had a Y DNA R and mt DNA U. 
        Question is what is the MA-1 autosomal 22 chromosomes?   

        The East coast tribes, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama etc.,  were the initial tribes to intermix with the Europeans. Mostly English, Irish and Scottish had gene mix with the Cherokee. Possibly some Spanish from the conquistadors.
        The Cherokee had a clan that learned the Spanish language as well as the English and French language.

        The Eastern Band of Cherokee has a DIB for 1/16th. from the Baker Rolls for 1924 with some modifications. Problem is no one can prove the DIB of the individual on the rolls or even if the individual was a Cherokee or Indian.

        These rolls were collected by non-Indians federal and state government employees. How could a government employment differentiate between a Creek and Cherokee on sight as an employee much less was the individual a "full blood or a 1/2 bred"? 

        Autosomal can prove family and match with the majority of tribal members. A tribe is family. Clans are closer family. One marries outside of ones clan to prevent inter-marrying in immediate family. Each clan in the tribe has a specific function for the tribe as war, peace, cultural religious ceremonies, agriculture etc..

         

         
        Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
        On Saturday, May 10, 2014 7:11 PM, "Randal Soza mrrandalsoza@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
         
        If I had to hazard a guess, I would say there's no such thing as "pure blood" or "pure Native American" or "Cherokee pure" or "Apache pure", or "pure" anyone else for that matter.  First, you'd have to define what constitutes "pure" on a genetic level when trying to determine a certain populace.  The dictionary definition of pure means:

        1 - not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material.
        2 - without any extraneous and unnecessary elements.

        And when speaking of "pure blood" or "pure bred"

        1 - of unmixed origin or descent.

        So for me, this would mean locating and identifying specific polymorphisms that are inherent to each specific tribe and none other. Then, those samples that included these specific markers could be declared "pure" so to speak, on a populace level.

        Just my two cents on the matter.

        Randal Soza

        Jewish Mexico Arizona Southwest US DNA Project Admin




        On May 10, 2014, at 9:19 AM, "JOEL SR hrjoel3@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

         
        Gary:

        If we are to speculate with East Asian as Native American why not do the same with West Asian, Western Eurasian, as Dr. Willerslev had stated that a 1/3rd. of NA today are related to the Mal'ta child, MA-1, have no East Asian DNA, but West Eurasian.

        Also, that the haplogroups for NAs are not exclusive to only NAs, but are found throughout the world. Therefore, the autosomal is the best source for relationships than hgs.

        The research I am participating in with Dr. Willerslev is to match autosomal with MA-1. Mal'ta child, Anzick-1, Montana child and Echota Cherokees of Alabama. There is not current accurate data on DNA from "Indians" in Alabama in a gene pool.

        Presently I do not know of a model sample of DNA that is scientifically proven to identify a North American "Pure Indian" as one can with a pure bred dog, cat, horse or cattle.

        Since we are speculating with a scientific method to measure a limited gene pool with inaccurate tools then our findings will have considerable incurrent out comes. 

        We are a program in progress with a lot to learn as we improve in accuracy.  

          
         
        Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
        On Friday, May 9, 2014 4:57 AM, "Gary Felix garyf@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
         
        Hi Joel K.
        you lose the autosomal DNA of ancestors older than 6 generations. The exception is when you are related to a population with a small effective population size (populations that marry among themselves). Populations that marry among themselves have DNA that is very distinct. These populations are homozygous in that they inherit similar dna from both their parents.  
        If a stranger came to town and married into a population that did not marry among themselves this strangers dna would be lost after about 6 generations or less. 
        On the other hand if several families came to an isolated location and their descendants all married among themselves this populations' dna would all be very similar (also similar to the population they left) and they would all look like they were closely related except they may be many generations apart. 

        Gary
        From: JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...>
        To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] "My Origins" Utility from FTDNA

         
        Halo:

        This individual is a 3rd or 4th cousin via FTDNA
        Q1a3a1
        Not his Y DNA as Q1a3a1 Native American?
        Amerindian  0.31%

        See gedmatch

        Comparison took 0.11876 seconds.

        Population
        North_Sea
        37.13%
        Atlantic
        25.36%
        Baltic
        8.31%
        Eastern_Euro
        9.93%
        West_Med
        11.53%
        West_Asian
        5.08%
        East_Med
        -
        Red_Sea
        1.19%
        South_Asian
        0.49%
        Southeast_Asian
        -
        Siberian
        -
        Amerindian
        0.31%
        Oceanian
        0.17%
        Northeast_African
        -
        Sub-Saharan
        0.51%


         


         


         
        Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
        On Thursday, May 8, 2014 6:11 AM, Gary Felix <garyf@...> wrote:
         
        Jaime,
        populations that marry among themselves pick up the same DNA and should be easy to identify once compared. When you match you match the whole population, so to speak. The locations that show up on gedmatch are location where you would expect to find Sephardic DNA. In order to better pick up Sephardic dNA you need more refined results than we are getting from FTDNA and specific sample comparisons. K13 seems to be a better tool for picking up Sephardic DNA.

        Gary

        From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:24 AM
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] "My Origins" Utility from FTDNA

         
        Gary,

        I did the K13 then did the Oracle 4 and ref 3 populations.  Came out as below:  The percentages came out identical to the ones I sent you earlier today comparing Gedmatch with the new FTDNA origin utility.

        #1 +50% Maya+25French Basque+Tunisian-9.262
        #2 +50%  "      +25Algerian          +25% French Basque-9.505
        #3 +50%  "      +25Mozabite Berber+25% Spain Cataluna-9.560
        #4 +50     "      +French Basque    +25Mozabite Berber-9.579
        #5 +50     "      +25Mozabite Berber=25Spain Aragon-9.649


        Jaime



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Gary Felix <garyf@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, May 7, 2014 9:53 am
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] "My Origins" Utility from FTDNA

         
        Jaime,
        K13 admixture then Oracle 4 for Jewish admixture (ref. the 3 populations). While the percentage is not accurate it will give you some idea. 


        Gary 

        From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2014 7:23 AM
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] "My Origins" Utility from FTDNA

         
        Gary,

        What Gedmatch Test should I run K13?

        Jaime



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Gary Felix <garyf@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, May 7, 2014 12:50 am
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] "My Origins" Utility from FTDNA

         
        Hi Jaime,
        >It is what it is, but I lost all my Middle Eastern origin-32%. - Jaime all of us have lost a significant amount of ME origin with this new utility. 
        > I went from 24% Russian and Finnish, now I am 1% Finn - this reduction appears to be another characteristic of this version but would appear to be more accurate than the old version based on our history. Also more in line with our 23andme results.

        > 50% European, comprised of Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Greece.  - If you have tested with 23andme or submitted your results to gedmatch is this more in line with their results for your DNA?

        >And I dropped from 37% New World to 25% New World. - same question as above.

        With the Sephardic component I don't think we will get an accurate representation unless enough samples are referenced in these calculations. Gedmatch appears to have an edge on this.

        Gary
        From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 1:37 PM
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] "My Origins" Utility from FTDNA

         
        Gary,
         
        It is what it is, but I lost all my Middle Eastern origin-32%.  In FTDNA Y, I still have common Sephardic cousins, one and two steps away.  I went from 24% Russian and Finnish, now I am 1% Finn and 50% European, comprised of Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Greece.  And I dropped from 37% New World to 25% New World.  I also went 3% up from 7% African to 10%.  I am here scratching my head!!??
         
        Jaime R. Hernandez
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Gary Felix <garyf@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, May 6, 2014 10:20 am
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] "My Origins" Utility from FTDNA

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