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180Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

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  • osalinas3
    Jul 3, 2013
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      Beto
      I'm impressed how much you know. Did you learn this from books or family stories? 
      Orfa


      Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Express™, an AT&T LTE smartphone



      -------- Original message --------
      From: Heriberto Escamilla <betoescamilla@...>
      Date: 07/03/2013 4:10 PM (GMT-06:00)
      To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA


       

      Hola, I hope you don't mind if I add to the conversation. According to FTDNA, my maternal lineage is C1c2, which another of the indigenous lineages. Family finder also tells me this is Maya or Hopi. But I believe it is really difficult to use DNA to pinpoint a particular tribe. The other complication is that the Europeans often took natives with them as they went along. So there had probably been admixture in the Caribbean even before they landed on the mainland. Once on the mainland, they also took people on other expeditions. According to records. natives also traded people. La Malinche, Cortes's interpreter was supposedly from central Mexico, but traded to the people's in the Yucatan. So she spoke both languages and together with Pedro de Aguilar, who spoke one of the Mayan languages and Spanish, was able to form a translation chain. So, given these patterns and that many indegenous people in Mexico have probably not provided the necessay samples,  it seems to me that it would be very difficult, maybe not impossible, and maybe with time, this might change.

      But for the record, I understand the people around Nuevo Leon were the Guachichil, or Huachil and a few others. I understand that Guachichil means something like "those that paint their faces red". I read somewhere that this is where the "Rayados" de Monterrey comes from.  Valle del Guajuco, which became La Villa de Santiago and where many of my ancestors are from was named after one of the last Guachichil caciques.

      It is said that when the Spanish asked the Mejica about their neighbors to the north they described them as Chichimeca (people of the dog lineage; chi chi or tzi tsi an affectionate name for dog and mectatl for rope or lineage). I don't know if they said this pejoratively to associate them with "dogs", uncivilized people or something else. The historical Chichimeca were supposedly of the lineage of Xolotl. This was one of those mythic people, an actual historical person that grew in proportion with time. Xolotl, is the base of the Tijuana soccer team. I love soccer.

      Anyway, the Huichol people, that sounds a lot like Hauchil or Guachichil are supposedly from the area of northern San Luis Potosi and possibly southern Nuevo Leon. At some time before the European invasion, they migrated to the area of Jalisco, Zacatecas  and Nayarit, where they presently live. They still make the pilgrimage to their place of origin, near Real de Catorce. In one of their creation stories, they tell of how they are descended from a she dog that mated with a human. So they say they are of the dog lineage. Whether they were influenced by the Mejica or the other way around is a mystery.  The Huichol people call themselves Wi'rarika. Huichol is there Spanish name.

      But Guachichil, Hauchil, Zacatecanos and other "chichimeca" are said to the indigenous peoples of the area around San Luis Potosi and Nuevo. Of course, there are many other stories, Whether there is any truth in this one....who knows?

      Beto


      From: Orfa Salinas <osalinas3@...>
      To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:14 AM
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

       
      Jaime,
       
        My mother's mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4'5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in Nuevo Leon or Tamaulipas, Mexico. The extended family has been in South Texas and as far north as Crystal City since the Mexican Revolution of 1910 although they came and went since before that. Her family had a lot of intermarriages. Her parents were double cousins, that is through both parents. I have no idea what Native tribe they could be. The family never mentioned any background. My cousin told me that she asked my grandfather once what kind of Indian he was. He had a very "typical Native American nose" and looked somewhat like the crying Native in the TV ads. He told her, angrily," Quitate de aqui!". Actually, he also was dark brown which no one else in the family was so I assumed he might also have some Black ancestry. I've just ordered a Family Finder test on my mother since they already have a DNA sample.
      Orfa
       
       
      "People usually hate what they don't understand."
      Moses ibn Ezra
      From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
      To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:17 AM
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
       
      Joel,

      My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

      Jaime


      -----Original Message-----From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
       
      Alice
      From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
      I'm also B2.
      Cheers
      Joel F Peres
      Chandler, AZ 
      On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
       
      Greetings Group,I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.Alice


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