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128Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Maya DNA

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  • Joel Peres
    Jun 30, 2013
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      Yes, all is quintessentially "random."  Even the matches that we attract as Siblings are different in nature.  My Brother has more Latin American matches, I have more diverse & exotic matches.  In regards to my Parents, who happen to share DNA & are distant cousins, Dad attracts more Latin American matches (Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala) plus more matches from North Africa (Algeria/Tunisia/Morocco) & Portugal with very few from Spain, Mom has less Latin American matches but more matches from Southeast Europe (Greece, Italy, Israel, Cyprus), plus more Spain but hardly any Portugal matches.  lol having OCD tendencies, this hobby keeps me busy looking for patterns & then seeing the patterns change as more matches enter the databases.  Most of my experience is with 23andme, I do have several FTDNA accounts, but our matches on FTDNA are more straightforward and in line with our Mexican heritage except for a few American Colonials & a few Ashkenazim.

      Saludos!


      On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 11:40 AM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
       

      Joel,

      Yes I have read that due this randomness, sometimes third cousins have more common dna (cm's and snps) than second cousins.  It appears that even within full siblings, ancestry percentages may vary from somewhere between 5 to 10%. Before I had always read that siblings varied in ancestry from one to 5%.  Now, I am not so sure.  It reminds me of a can of paint with mixed colors.  Every time you throw a handful of paint at the wall, you do not get the exact picture or percentages of paint splashed. 

      Jaime




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>
      To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, Jun 30, 2013 11:22 am
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Maya DNA

       
      Jaime
      That's a great perspective; however, regarding her 6% NA, another dynamic to consider is that her Dad could have been about 12% NA & she only got about half of it, hence she's 6%.  Using my family as an example our son got 15.1% NA, I have 31.2% his Mom has 0.0%.

      Regarding my African (I'm 100% Mexican), its pretty similar:
      Dad 3.8%
      Mom 0%

      Me 1.6%
      Brother 2.8%

      Our Son 1.3%
      My Wife 0%

      Recombination is random & at times this randomness doesn't always equate to 50/50, so theoretically many scenarios are possible.  

      Dad's Ashkenazi 0.7%
      Mom's Ashkenazi 1.2%
      Me 1.2%
      Brother 1.1%
      Son 0.9%
      Wifey 0.0%

      Hope this helps :) 


      On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 11:07 AM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
       
      Linda,

      My understanding is that once Benito Juarez, became President, he no longer allowed Mexican birth certificates to be annotated by caste, or race. So records after approx 1830, no longer show these annotations.  Good from the standpoint of equality for all, but bad for the genealogist.  Of course as Joel says, many times church records were embellished, depending on family influence.  If you know in uncertain terms that your Mom had no Native ancestry, you can safely conclude that all the Native dna is coming from your Dad.  However, since we inherit theoretically  50% of our dna from each parent, if you show 6% NA, then half (3%) came form Dad and the other 3% came from your Mom.  At least that is what I have been told and read in terms of interpreting results.  I have been dabbling in this genealogy science since 1970 and used the Mormon library to go back 8 generations by using both my Mom and Dad's Mexican birth certificates back in 1990.  Cris Rendon (genealogist) took my 8 generation pedigree back to approx 1100 into Spain.  I have taken numerous FTDNA tests, both Y and X as well as the autosomal test.  I have found that once you find an answer to your question, numerous other questions pop up.  It becomes a never ending fact finding mission, where one is constantly trying to tie the ends.   I also belong to Gary Felix's Mexico's Y Genealogy Project. 

      Hope this helps,

      Jaime Rendon Hernandez
      Paternal: E1b1b1a1a (V12)  Med/Semitic
      Maternal: A  Native American




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>
      To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, Jun 30, 2013 8:35 am
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Maya DNA

       
      Linda,
      It may or may not be a challenge to uncover our Native American ancestors because in many cases Native American ancestry was taboo or undesirable and so records were embellished.  At other times the scribe didn't have the privilege we have of having an autosomal test at their disposal to correctly categorize the caste of the individual and so they went on outward appearance and family reputation.   As recently as my Grandmother's time, her birth certificate described her as "Tez Blanca" even though her mtDNA haplogroup is B2, she obviously wasn't white, she was mestiza.   Even in the United States, mislabeling happened.   My Mares ancestors from New Mexico on one census are listed as surname "Marris" & "White."  I know its them because of their first names, names like Cristobal, Maria Teofila, Jose Francisco, Juan Luis etc.   However, many other folks have been able to find their exact Native ancestors, look out for terms used to describe individuals such as "Lobo" or "Zambo" etc.  Perhaps others who are more versed in Mexican genealogy can chime in on labels used to described admixed individuals.   
      Another suggestion is if your Mother is still with us, you can get her tested.  At that point under "Split View" on 23andme's Ancestry Composition, you'll see if any of your Native American is coming from her side.  I've tested several generations in my family and we used this tool to prove that our son's Ashkenazi percentage was actually coming from his Mexican side.  My wife's background is similar to yours (Penn Dutch, Dane, Norwegian, Dutch, German) and for a moment we suspected she may have had a Dutch Jewish ancestor.  Hope this info was helpful, sorry to ramble on & on.  :)
      Cheers
      Joel F Peres
      Chandler, AZ 


      On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Linda <romero89@...> wrote:
       
      Thank you for your insights, Joel. They are very helpful. I would like to add that my father's YDNA is J2b1 (J-M205) and my mother's mtDNA is U5a1b3. My mother's family moved West and settled in the Midwest in the early 1800's. She was born in North Dakota and her father was born in Iowa. Her mother was born in Minnesota. (Who said that people didn't move around much in the old days?) That's where I would have suspected Native American influence to enter her line. However, it would be too recent to only show up as 6%. If the Mayflower descendants did not mix much with Native Americans in the early settlement days, then I have to conclude that my Native American genes must come from my father's side. Now the question is, how do I find out when and where it came from. It seems everyone I have found in the records, so far, was light skinned enough to be referred to as "Espanole" in the recordings by the Church.

      Since my father is direct male descendant of Lucas Romero y Chavez, born ca.1660-1670, and I believe he was Spanish, the Native American must be from his wife or the wife of one of his descendants in my line. Is my reasoning correct? If so, does anyone know how far back I should start looking? All the wives were listed as Espanole, so the Native American would be several generations back in one of their lines.

      I'm beginning to think that if I don't accidentally come across my Native American ancestor, I will never find her.

      Linda Romero



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