Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

1268Re: [MexicoDNAProject] California Tribes

Expand Messages
  • Gary Felix
    Jun 9 10:51 AM
      Joel K,
      DNA has been used in the judicial system for quite some time now.  CODIS testing can identify with near certainty. 

      You seem to be referring to different types of DNA testing. You would use autosomal dna to test for relatives from all branches of your family tree. if you are looking for ancient migrations you would use haploid also known as Y or Mtdna.  For Genealogical testing there is a reliance on comparative data so the testing is only as good as the data in which it is being compared with.  That being said you only need a small amount of data per population to see all the variance in that population.  

      Because of admixture Mexican ancestry is harder to predict with accuracy but is becoming clearer with new discoveries like MA-1 which as you know is DNA found only in Native Americans.  The difficulty appears to be in finding DNA that would reference NA since admixture is so common. This is why ancient samples are being used as references as seen in gedmatch.


      From: "JOEL SR hrjoel3@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, June 9, 2014 8:01 AM
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] California Tribes


      The separating by sectional regions is very interesting.

      I was born in the state of Georgia. I was born in the south western section of Georgia less than a mile from the south eastern section of Alabama.

      The majority of my relatives are from Alabama.

      What about those who are born in northern Georgia vs south Georgia or say central Georgia.

      For DNA purposed are we all different?

      When relating to Asians how can one know the over lapping or mixing of a population with any degree of accuracy?

      How is an European defined? How do you define a mixed European with an Asian, regardless to sectional area?

      Will a Native American be sectionalized as northern, eastern, southern and western with further sectionalizing into northeastern, southeastern etc..

      If admixture of the current Native American population is valid from European DNA then how many Y and mt hgs are in the current native American population? What European populations mixed with the native Americans?

      Then only the autosomal for family connections would be a valid means to use DNA for tribal purposes especially if the tribe is government recognized.

      Will we create more questions than answers?

      If Dr. Willerslev is correct that the Windover Bog Peoples DNA is to contaminated to process this will be a major loss due to time frame and number of total amount of material that will be lost to analyze.

      I will ask Dr. Willerslev about the Penon Woman from Mexico and Luzia from Brazil? 

      Lastly, another are of interest is the physiological characteristics such as the shape of the skull, face and central Asian cranial ridge or Celtic bump and the Anatolian bump etc..

      Does any of this have any scientific validity?   

      We can have a lot of fun in the search and making friends with emails.

      Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.

      On Sunday, June 8, 2014 11:02 PM, "Gary Felix garyf@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Hi Joel K.,
      need a scientific paper showing the evidence of Euro origins.  Thus far all the DNA evidence points to NE Asian origin and Central Asian (haplogroup Q) before that just like Y haplogroup R.  Kennewick Man's Y DNA turned out to match one of the researchers (contaminated).  Y Haplogroup C in the second migration appears to have come up the coast of Asia. 

      It appears the reason for the confusion is that the first arrivals were thin faced NA from NE Asia. 


      From: "JOEL SR hrjoel3@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2014 5:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] California Tribes [2 Attachments]


      I had someone request that I check the archeological finding in Florida date 1982 named Windover Bog People. In Brevard county near the cape or Atlantic ocean.

      I checked the site and then discovered more interesting information on others.

      Windover Bog  People 1982  dated 6 to 8,000 167 bodies removed from a bog with skulls having brain tissue.
      Non-Native American. European DNA sequenced.

      Kennewick Man found in the state of Washington in 1996 dated 7,000 to 7, 6000.  European? DNA sequenced and what is it?

      Buhl Woman in Utah 1989 10,000 Where is her DNA NA or European?

      Penon Woman near Mexico city dated 13,000 as European?
      First Mexican woman?

      All of these examples could be non-NAs and European in origin in North America before or during the Bearing Straight land mass crossing.

      Mexican project. Does anyone know anything about Penon outside Mexico city dated 13,000 her mt and autosomal DNA?

      I have an email sent to Dr. Wentz on the DNA for the Windover Bog People in Florida.  Surely much sooner than Columbus who is credited with the naming for the indigenous people; Indians about 600 years ago. Windover Bog People dated at least 6,000 years ago in Florida.

      Windoover Bog People all appear to have been European? Males Y R? Females mt H?
      Who are the originals for North America?
      Where is the DNA on these discoveries? What is the DNA?

      All those who have comments please write them.  

      Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.

      On Saturday, June 7, 2014 2:20 PM, "Gary Felix garyf@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Joel K,
      I have read books on the earliest migrations in the Americas and the Meshica account of the conquest and NA DNA studies in Mexico but nothing more than the internet on US tribes.

      This is a recent story on NA origins from a cave in the Yucatan:


      From: "JOEL SR hrjoel3@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 8:22 AM
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] California Tribes


      What do you know about the Windover Bog People in Florida?

      I had forgotten about the find in 1982 in south Florida.

      I think they are European.
      Question is how did they get to now Florida in about 9 or 10,000 years ago? Why no DNA on FTDNA, GEDmatch.com or any matching with MA-1, Anzick-1 and other Native American tribes?

      I have sent an email to Dr. Wentz, Anthropologist for the Florida Eastern District.
      See copy of email.
      Dr. Rachel K. Wentz

      Director East Central Region

      I noticed you attended Troy University. I did as well. I played football in 1963.

      I am enrolled with the Echota Cherokee T! ribe of Alabama.

      I and other volunteers are participating in an autosomal DNA project with                       Dr. Eske Willerslev.

      The project will match our autosomal with MA-1, Anzick-1, Karitianai tribe in Brazil, small isolated tribal population located in the jungles of Brazil, and the Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama.

      I had my autosomal uploaded to GEDmatch.com. With Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle I match: Anzick-1, Mayan, Pima, Karitiana, North Amerindian, West Greenlander, MA-1, East Greenlander.

      However, I then discovered the Windover Bog People in Florida.

      Has anyone matched the autosomal from the Windover Bog People with MA-1, Anzick-1, Karitiana tribe etc..?

      What is the DNA for the Windover Blog People? Y/mt hgs?

      The MA1 is dated about 24,000, the Anzick-1 is about 17,000/10,000 and what is the date for the Windover Blog People? about 10,000/9,000?

      I am a retired psychotherapist in the state of Florida. I reside in Ocala, Florida. I did live in the Ocala National Forest for about 30 years with the bears, bobcats, eagles etc..

      Joel K. Harris, Sr., PH.D.

      Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.

      On Saturday, June 7, 2014 12:39 AM, "Gary Felix garyf@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Hi Joel K,
      the Greenland samples are the most recent arrivals from NE Asia (3rd migration).

      The key is matching small tribes.  For instance a match to Mayan in FTDNA only means they have few samples from other tribes.

      Gedmatch is still down.


      From: "JOEL SR hrjoel3@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:07 PM
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Tatar



      I sent an email to Ms. Bailey with the gedmatch for Native Americans.
      I think she is the administrative coordinator for NAs.
      Copy of my email

      I sent an email to Connie Mulligan, Geneticist, University of Florida, who had made comments about the Mal'ta male child having Eurasian Y/mt R/U. but no comments on the chromosomes alleles for the child that matches with the Karitiana Tribe which no admixture from European. Total isolation in the jungles of Brazil.

      I have matches with individuals with Q and A,B,C,D, and X, but no matches for MA-1, Anzick-1 and the Karitiana tribe.

      Then I have a match with Francis, chromosome 3 with a 8.3 CMS and a MRCA for 7th. generation and who, F311426, is C1c1b, does not match with MA-1, but has matches with Anzick-1 and Karitiana.

      I have sent the person an email. I can not determine the gender? 

      Do you match with Mayan, Pima and Karitiana as well as the MA-1 and the Anzick-1?
      What do you know about the East and West Greenlanders?   
      Take care.
      To gedmatchnativeproject@...
      May 20 at 10:08 PM
      Dear Ms. Bailey:

      I am an enrolled member of the Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama.

      I and other members of the tribe are participating with Dr. Eske Willerslev DNA research.

      Will you sue Dr. research as you now use the MA-1 and the Anzick-1?

      DNA from the Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama?

      My DNA matches Anzick-1, MA-1, Mayan, Pima, Karitiana, Tatar, NA Dene, North Amerindian, East and West Greenlander.

      There no members of the five civilized tribes in the gene pool; Chickasaw, Choctaw, Cherokee, Creek and Seminole. 

      How many federal and state recognized tribal members are in the gene pool gedmatch?

      What are the names of the federal and state recognized tribes in the gene pool? 

      How may we work together?

      Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
      Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.

      On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 1:43 PM, "Gary Felix garyf@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Joel K,
      can't seem to login to gedmatch at the moment. I noticed the site is not always available or after you login you get errors.


      From: "JOEL SR hrjoel3@... [MexicoDNAProject]" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 7:30 AMSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Tatar


      Would you provide a list of the tribes you match with in California.

    • Show all 58 messages in this topic