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  • child3lessig
    Dear all, I am very excited to be part of this list! I am truly fascinated. I was wondering if any of you could help me with some research I am doing on my
    Message 1 of 4 , May 10, 2002
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      Dear all,

      I am very excited to be part of this list! I am truly fascinated. I
      was wondering if any of you could help me with some research I am
      doing on my grandfather. His name was Benjamin Vincente Garcia. He
      faught in the Revolutionary War and then for Poncho Villa. From a
      member of this list, I joined this list and received some information
      from a few books that I will be ordering to "read-up" on. I am
      trying to track down any information.

      My grandfather was an artillery man in the Mexican Revolutionary War
      and I was hoping to find some information and or books that, even
      briefly, might mention him. He fought for the Mexican Govt.
      (Federales) against Poncho Villa as an artillery man. Born and
      raised in Zacatecas, he was intimately familiar with the topography
      and was instrumental in delaying Poncho Villa's victory due to his
      accuracy in keeping Poncho Villa from taking over La Bufa. Probably
      due to his intimate knowledge of the town, he escaped after Poncho
      Villa's victory. We have been told there was an unexpected delay of
      taking over La Bufa, which was accredited to the artillery accuracy
      (at least what we know). Poncho Villa wanted to know who the
      artillery man (men) was/were for the Federales and my Grandfather was
      identified. He was given the choice of gold or lead. The cause was
      already lost so my Grandfather joined him. He subsequently left and
      came to the US, gained citizenship and blah, blah blah.... here I am.

      My aunt's and uncles use to own a book (I am pretty sure it was
      written in Spanish)where there was a picture of my Grandfather as a
      Chapultepec cadet guarding President Madero. Madero was on horseback
      riding through the street with a number of cadets around him. It was
      a picture of my Grandfather, but no mention of him by name because
      they were cadets. Unfortunately, my Aunt's and Uncles claim ignorance
      to knowing where the book is -it is probably lost. I am trying to
      track down this book (kind of like a needle in a haystack).

      My mother and father recently visited Zacatecas, but there really was
      no information there. Mostly museums regarding topography and/or
      archeology.

      Sorry for going on, but have you read any information in the books you
      reviewed?? Also, what books (there are so many) would you recommend
      for starters?

      My grandfatherwas 20 years senior to my Grandmother and died when my
      mother was only 14. My grandmother would really not discuss and
      passed away a few years ago.

      Incidentally, decades later, I understand that the Mexican Govt. was
      issuing medals to those who fought for their cause and were
      instrumental in fighting. My grandfather was on that list, but was
      denied the medal because he was a US citizen.

      Thanks for any help, insight and/or recommended reading.

      Sincerely,

      Karen Lessig
      mckay@...
    • bryanth798
      It is difficult if not impossible to find out any information about any particular soldier or officer who fought either for or against Villa - or in any other
      Message 2 of 4 , May 12, 2002
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        It is difficult if not impossible to find out any information about
        any particular soldier or officer who fought either for or against
        Villa - or in any other phase of this conflict, simply because there
        were so many people involved and because record keeping was so bad
        and reports were so contradictory. You should understand that in any
        of the major campaigns, both sides had, literally, tens of thousands
        of soldiers and officers. Villa had up to 35,000 people under his
        dierct command at one point, and one can assume that Obregon and
        Carranza probably had a lot more than that once they had organized
        the "sociales" defense forces. So, I might comment that the
        information you have provided is indeed fascinating, but I doubt if
        anyone ehre can shed any more light on this topic. Thanks for joining
        our group.

        Villa's name was Pancho, by the way, not Poncho. Pancho
        (pronounced "PAHN-cho") is a nickname for Francisco, while Poncho
        (pronounced PONE-cho") is a nickname for persons named Alfonso.

        Bryant
      • Lessig, Karen [ETHUS]
        Bryant, I never had a chance to thank you for your response and for enlightening me on the enormity of the forces. Indeed you are correct, there is probably no
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 3, 2002
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          RE: [MexicanRevolution] Re: New member and seek info

          Bryant,

          I never had a chance to thank you for your response and for enlightening me on the enormity of the forces. Indeed you are correct, there is probably no chance of finding information on him individually.  I have recently interviewed my Uncle and found out that my Grandfather was made a Commander of Artillery under Pancho Villa.  Later he became Commissioner of Police in Mexico City before coming to the US.

          Interestingly, my Uncle says he has some documentation and papers of my Grandfathers' from when he served in the wars.  I will be making arrangements to visit sometime this year to go through these.

          I am enjoying this group and starting to learn quite a bit.  It is undaunting to hear that much of what I am now reading may not necessarily be true - rumors and all.... Nevertheless I will ask where I do not understand.

          Thanks again.

          Karen

            -----Original Message-----
            From:   bryanth798 [SMTP:bryanth@...]
            Sent:   Sunday, May 12, 2002 10:44 PM
            To:     MexicanRevolution@yahoogroups.com
            Subject:        [MexicanRevolution] Re: New member and seek info

            It is difficult if not impossible to find out any information about
            any particular soldier or officer who fought either for or against
            Villa - or in any other phase of this conflict, simply because there
            were so many people involved and because record keeping was so bad
            and reports were so contradictory. You should understand that in any
            of the major campaigns, both sides had, literally, tens of thousands
            of soldiers and officers. Villa had up to 35,000 people under his
            dierct command at one point, and one can assume that Obregon and
            Carranza probably had a lot more than that once they had organized
            the "sociales" defense forces. So, I might comment that the
            information you have provided is indeed fascinating, but I doubt if
            anyone ehre can shed any more light on this topic. Thanks for joining
            our group.

            Villa's name was Pancho, by the way, not Poncho. Pancho
            (pronounced "PAHN-cho") is a nickname for Francisco, while Poncho
            (pronounced PONE-cho") is a nickname for persons named Alfonso.

            Bryant



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        • E Bryant Holman
          RE: [MexicanRevolution] Re: New member and seek infoIt is so difficult to find out the facts about Pancho Villa that even the most dedicated and studied
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 3, 2002
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            RE: [MexicanRevolution] Re: New member and seek info
            It is so difficult to find out the facts about Pancho Villa that even the most dedicated and studied historians find it impossible to separate fact from fiction. This results from a number of factors.
             
            One is that there were a whole host of people deliberately lying in order to cover up the truth. This campaign was orchestrated principally by Villa's enemies in the later phase of the Revolution, the Villa/Carranza civil war, with a lot of participation by the American government.
             
            Another had to do with Mexican historians and particpants making things up in their memoirs and histories with a view to their own self-aggrandizement. The sort of folk tales that are told that pass down through families are often of that nature: people who tell their children and their friends how important they were supposedly in order to make themselves into something they were not. In other cases, these people might have told one version, and it was someone else who altered it. In any event, it is frustrating, for instance, to read, in the most famous and complete biography of Villa, which is almost a thousand pages long, and written by a man who spent 30 years compiling archives, that almost nothing is know about the period when Villa was governor of Chihuahua!
             
            Bryant
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 10:09 AM
            Subject: RE: [MexicanRevolution] Re: New member and seek info

            Bryant,

            I never had a chance to thank you for your response and for enlightening me on the enormity of the forces. Indeed you are correct, there is probably no chance of finding information on him individually.  I have recently interviewed my Uncle and found out that my Grandfather was made a Commander of Artillery under Pancho Villa.  Later he became Commissioner of Police in Mexico City before coming to the US.

            Interestingly, my Uncle says he has some documentation and papers of my Grandfathers' from when he served in the wars.  I will be making arrangements to visit sometime this year to go through these.

            I am enjoying this group and starting to learn quite a bit.  It is undaunting to hear that much of what I am now reading may not necessarily be true - rumors and all.... Nevertheless I will ask where I do not understand.

            Thanks again.

            Karen

              -----Original Message-----
              From:   bryanth798 [SMTP:bryanth@...]
              Sent:   Sunday, May 12, 2002 10:44 PM
              To:     MexicanRevolution@yahoogroups.com
              Subject:        [MexicanRevolution] Re: New member and seek info

              It is difficult if not impossible to find out any information about
              any particular soldier or officer who fought either for or against
              Villa - or in any other phase of this conflict, simply because there
              were so many people involved and because record keeping was so bad
              and reports were so contradictory. You should understand that in any
              of the major campaigns, both sides had, literally, tens of thousands
              of soldiers and officers. Villa had up to 35,000 people under his
              dierct command at one point, and one can assume that Obregon and
              Carranza probably had a lot more than that once they had organized
              the "sociales" defense forces. So, I might comment that the
              information you have provided is indeed fascinating, but I doubt if
              anyone ehre can shed any more light on this topic. Thanks for joining
              our group.

              Villa's name was Pancho, by the way, not Poncho. Pancho
              (pronounced "PAHN-cho") is a nickname for Francisco, while Poncho
              (pronounced PONE-cho") is a nickname for persons named Alfonso.

              Bryant



              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor   
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                <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.2053425.3521449.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705308539:HM/A=1036975/rand=586008491>      

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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