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pewter bending help

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  • JASPERRDM@HOTMAIL.COM
    I am trying to replica a cloak clasp for a friend. I have made a mold using RTV rubber. However when straightening the clasp male hook I broke it. So, I just
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 13, 2001
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      I am trying to replica a cloak clasp for a friend. I have made a mold
      using RTV rubber. However when straightening the clasp male hook I
      broke it. So, I just carved a straight line in the mold. When trying
      to bend the new piece back into a hook shape I keep snapping the
      piece. Suggestions on how to carefully heat the hook so it bends and
      not breaks?
    • jesse
      I am not a good one to answer this but current pewter is usually a tin antimony alloy 82- 85 % Tin and 18--15 % antimony. These tend to be brittle.
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 13, 2001
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        I am not a good one to answer this but current "pewter " is usually a tin
        antimony alloy 82- 85 % Tin and 18--15 % antimony. These tend to be
        brittle. (and I think hot short) That would mean more brittle hot than
        cold. Britannia metal 96.5 % tin 1.6 % antimony remainder copper is
        also "pewter" and "may" work better but tin also doesn't bend well in thick
        sections but it does work well in thin ones. "Pewter " used for reposee is
        commonly called tin and does exhibit some properties of pure tin , and it
        probably is pure tin or closer to Britannia. I think pure "pewter"" spun
        into bowls is also this material. Old pewter commonly was a tin lead alloy
        and this WILL bend . It will slowly yield in bending under load. Antimony
        will burn out somewhat as vapor of a lead alloy such as wheel weights ,where
        it is used to harden the lead, on melting .
        With a high 15% antimony level to start you may not lose enough . Since
        you are not making a food use item you could add some lead but I don't know
        how much. I think you can also use Britannia . This will be bright and shiny
        , with lead it will be gray and dull.
        Soldering cast pewter is done with a low melting alloy containing 45 parts
        tin, 27 parts lead and 28 parts bismuth melting below 300 F flux is 10
        drops of HCl in 1 ounce of Glycerin. use a torch carefully or an electric
        soldering gun.
        Rio Grand sells some low melting casting alloys which are pretty close to
        this solder.

        A good book on casting pewter:
        Cast Pewter Jewelry by Jay D Kain Isbn 0-87192-071-9 1975 out of
        print
        The last copy I saw was pretty steep.

        Jesse


        JASPER \RDM@ HOTMAIL.COM wrote:

        > I am trying to replica a cloak clasp for a friend. I have made a mold
        > using RTV rubber. However when straightening the clasp male hook I
        > broke it. So, I just carved a straight line in the mold. When trying
        > to bend the new piece back into a hook shape I keep snapping the
        > piece. Suggestions on how to carefully heat the hook so it bends and
        > not breaks?
        >
        >
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        >
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      • Hall, Hayward
        I was thinking the same thing but was afraid to suggest it because of the lead paranoia. I think that would be just fine since, as Jesse said, its not for
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 15, 2001
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          I was thinking the same thing but was afraid to suggest it because of the
          lead paranoia. I think that would be just fine since, as Jesse said, its
          not for food or constant contact with your skin. Just add small quantities
          of lead and test bend it until it works.

          An alternate approach would be to cast the ring as a solid mass, drill
          through it (to make a 'ring') then slit the ring, open it slightly and
          insert the brooch, then close it.

          On a more practical level, I'd consider using something besides pewter for
          the pin simply because it's not very strong. You can go a long ways with
          forging, punching, filing, and engraving a piece of 1/4" copper grounding
          wire in just a few minutes. That would look way cool, be stronger, and give
          a nice contrasting color.

          At any rate, let us know what you decide. Naturally, you'll post pictures
          of it as well :)

          Guillaume de la Sudeterre
          http://www.evangel.edu/People/hayward/medievalstuff



          -----Original Message-----
          From: jesse [mailto:jkbrennan@...]

          > Since you are not making a food use item you could add some lead but I
          don't know
          > how much.

          JASPER \RDM@ HOTMAIL.COM wrote:

          > I am trying to replica a cloak clasp for a friend.
          > Suggestions on how to carefully heat the hook so it bends and
          > not breaks?
        • jesse
          Before you buy any Pewter for casting I suggest you talk to either Belmont (east ) or Atlas (west) or both to get the best material. See:
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 16, 2001
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            Before you buy any Pewter for casting I suggest you talk to either Belmont
            (east ) or Atlas (west) or both to get the best material. See:

            http://www.belmontmetals.com/products/pewter.cfm
            http://www.atlasmetal.com/atpw.htm"

            > I was thinking the same thing but was afraid to suggest it because of the
            >
            > JASPER \RDM@ HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
            >
            > > I am trying to replica a cloak clasp for a friend.
            > > Suggestions on how to carefully heat the hook so it bends and
            > > not breaks?
            >
            >
            > Community email addresses:
            > Post message: Metalcasting@onelist.com
            > Subscribe: Metalcasting-subscribe@onelist.com
            > Unsubscribe: Metalcasting-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > List owner: Metalcasting-owner@onelist.com
            >
            > Shortcut URL to this page:
            > http://www.onelist.com/community/Metalcasting
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • neymetals@erols.com
            ... mold ... trying ... and ... I just found your group. If you haven t yet solved your problem, I have some potential solutions. First, you must be sure that
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 14, 2001
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              --- In Metalcasting@y..., JASPERRDM@H... wrote:
              > I am trying to replica a cloak clasp for a friend. I have made a
              mold
              > using RTV rubber. However when straightening the clasp male hook I
              > broke it. So, I just carved a straight line in the mold. When
              trying
              > to bend the new piece back into a hook shape I keep snapping the
              > piece. Suggestions on how to carefully heat the hook so it bends
              and
              > not breaks?

              I just found your group. If you haven't yet solved your problem, I
              have some potential solutions.
              First, you must be sure that the alloy you are using is indeed pewter!
              If the pewter is made from high purity ingredients, both lead-free
              and
              pewter and those containing lead are quite flexible albeit that there
              are custom alloyed pewters that are especially designed for that
              purpose.

              The enemy of flexibility is heat. The signs that this is the problem
              are a crystalline appearance on the surface of the casting. If this
              is
              the case, check the temperature of the molten metal prior to casting.
              It should be about 50 F above the melting point of the alloy. If you
              do not have a thermometer, and the pewter is lead-free, the newspaper
              test is a reasonable alternative. Take a plain piece (not glossy) and
              loosely wrap it over itself and place it briefly into the melt. The
              color should be a straw brown. Darker, and it's too hot.
              There are gating and venting techniques that can be used to reduce
              hot
              spots in castings as well.

              Good luck!

              Ron Mayer
              http://www.neymetals.com/
            • DianaFiona@aol.com
              In a message dated 6/14/01 9:20:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Greetings, Ron! Lovely to have you here.......... :-) ... Yes, that s been my
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 14, 2001
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                In a message dated 6/14/01 9:20:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                neymetals@... writes:

                I just found your group. If you haven't yet solved your problem, I
                have some potential solutions.>>


                      Greetings, Ron! Lovely to have you here.......... :-)


                First, you must be sure that the alloy you are using is indeed pewter!
                If the pewter is made from high purity ingredients, both lead-free
                and
                pewter and those containing lead are quite flexible albeit that there
                are custom alloyed pewters that are especially designed for that
                purpose.

                      Yes, that's been my experience........ Jasper, I think I was busy when
                you first mentioned this and didn't have time to reply, but I've done molds
                like yours before, and bent the straight pieces into loops with no problems.
                Soooooo, it isn't always a problem, as this gentle has stated.


                The enemy of flexibility is heat. The signs that this is the problem
                are a crystalline appearance on the surface of the casting. If this
                is
                the case, check the temperature of the molten metal prior to casting.
                It should be about 50 F above the melting point of the alloy. If you
                do not have a thermometer, and the pewter is lead-free, the newspaper
                test is a reasonable alternative. Take a plain piece (not glossy) and
                loosely wrap it over itself and place it briefly into the melt. The
                color should be a straw brown. Darker, and it's too hot.
                There are gating and venting techniques that can be used to reduce
                hot
                spots in castings as well.

                Good luck!

                Ron Mayer
                http://www.neymetals.com/

                      Thanks bunches for that info! I'm learning pewter casting in a rather
                catch-as-can manner, and technical stuff is where I'm weakest. If you care to
                expand on any of the points you mentioned, I'm sure it would help many of us!
                :-)

                                        Diana
              • JASPERRDM@HOTMAIL.COM
                ... Hi Ron thanks for the advice. What I did was to make a new mold. I had the hook and circle pt down to the bottom of the mold. I just increased the air
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 15, 2001
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                  --- In Metalcasting@y..., neymetals@e... wrote:
                  Hi Ron thanks for the advice.
                  What I did was to make a new mold. I had the hook and circle pt down
                  to the bottom of the mold. I just increased the air vent/ flash coming
                  off the hook.
                  Now what I do is clip a little excess from the bottom of the hook.
                  Then using needlept pliers I slowly bend the hook into shape.
                  Then clip the excess off the pt. Using a round file to dress up the
                  under side.
                  Bake the clasp at 200 for 15 minutes and quench to temper the clasp.

                  So how long have you been working at my favorite pewter store?
                  Can you recommend any books for working with pewter?

                  Jasper Murtagh
                • Ron Mayer
                  I just started one month ago............ plus 32 years. There are several books. Most of them create as much confusion as help. Really, most of this is really
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 15, 2001
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                    I just started one month ago............ plus 32 years.

                    There are several books. Most of them create as much confusion as help.
                    Really, most of this is really basic casting theory that can be used from any
                    basic book at the library. There are specialized books for the centrifugal
                    and gravity rubber mold sector which is not for the kind of casting you are
                    doing. Pewter spinning is just fancy lathe work with some speciallized tools.

                    The biggest difference with tin-based alloys is that they do not anneal.
                    Ideally, the metal should set in a minimum amount of time to prevent the
                    alloy from becoming crystallized. The same heat problem that caused the
                    breakage when bending your piece also shows itself as porosity on the
                    casting. You should pre-warm your mold media sufficiently to get rid of any
                    moisture but do not let your mold media get too hot creating extended setup
                    time.

                    Your favorite pewter source,

                    Ron Mayer
                    http://www.neymetals.com/




                    JASPERRDM@... wrote:

                    > --- In Metalcasting@y..., neymetals@e... wrote:
                    > Hi Ron thanks for the advice.
                    > What I did was to make a new mold. I had the hook and circle pt down
                    > to the bottom of the mold. I just increased the air vent/ flash coming
                    > off the hook.
                    > Now what I do is clip a little excess from the bottom of the hook.
                    > Then using needlept pliers I slowly bend the hook into shape.
                    > Then clip the excess off the pt. Using a round file to dress up the
                    > under side.
                    > Bake the clasp at 200 for 15 minutes and quench to temper the clasp.
                    >
                    > So how long have you been working at my favorite pewter store?
                    > Can you recommend any books for working with pewter?
                    >
                    > Jasper Murtagh
                    >
                    > Community email addresses:
                    > Post message: Metalcasting@onelist.com
                    > Subscribe: Metalcasting-subscribe@onelist.com
                    > Unsubscribe: Metalcasting-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    > List owner: Metalcasting-owner@onelist.com
                    >
                    > Shortcut URL to this page:
                    > http://www.onelist.com/community/Metalcasting
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Sam
                    hi everyone my name is Sam. I know absolutely nothing about metal casting but have been interested in it ever since I have begun writing a historical novel
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 16, 2001
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                      hi everyone

                      my name is Sam.

                      I know absolutely nothing about metal casting but have been interested in it
                      ever since I have begun writing a historical novel about the viking age.

                      If anyone could help me out with techniques used at the time, or anything
                      specifically that I should know,I would be glad to hear from you.

                      Thanks

                      Sam
                    • asa.wood@excite.com
                      Jasper, (hi hon) as far as the back part needing to be bent, I got some really good books at Gulf Wars (museum catalogs, with line drawings and pix of backs)
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 17, 2001
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                        Jasper, (hi hon) as far as the back part needing to be bent, I
                        got some really good books at Gulf Wars (museum catalogs, with line
                        drawings and pix of backs) and I'd noticed that many had a bent/hook-
                        type back to them, so I tried to figure out if they'd bent them, or
                        molded them tat-a-way.... Looking closely at the details of the line
                        drawings, I finally realized that they had used 3-part molds!! ie
                        the imprint of the two back molds was clearly there in many cases!
                        I saw the molds you were useing for the coins...it didn't look like
                        it would be difficult to make those 3 parts instead of two...(of
                        course I have to admit ignorance of the material, except via
                        observation, but you are just cutting it, right?) with 3-parts, it
                        really wouldn't matter about how soft the metal is, cause the 'bend'
                        is in the mold, .....
                        hugz
                        Shara (ps, love the coins! they made a welcome gift to someone)



                        --- In Metalcasting@y..., neymetals@e... wrote:
                        > --- In Metalcasting@y..., JASPERRDM@H... wrote:
                        > > I am trying to replica a cloak clasp for a friend. I have made a
                        > mold
                        > > using RTV rubber. However when straightening the clasp male hook
                        I
                        > > broke it. So, I just carved a straight line in the mold. When
                        > trying
                        > > to bend the new piece back into a hook shape I keep snapping the
                        > > piece. Suggestions on how to carefully heat the hook so it bends
                        > and
                        > > not breaks?
                        >
                        > I just found your group. If you haven't yet solved your problem, I
                        > have some potential solutions.
                        > First, you must be sure that the alloy you are using is indeed
                        pewter!
                        > If the pewter is made from high purity ingredients, both lead-free
                        > and
                        > pewter and those containing lead are quite flexible albeit that
                        there
                        > are custom alloyed pewters that are especially designed for that
                        > purpose.
                        >
                        > The enemy of flexibility is heat. The signs that this is the
                        problem
                        > are a crystalline appearance on the surface of the casting. If this
                        > is
                        > the case, check the temperature of the molten metal prior to
                        casting.
                        > It should be about 50 F above the melting point of the alloy. If
                        you
                        > do not have a thermometer, and the pewter is lead-free, the
                        newspaper
                        > test is a reasonable alternative. Take a plain piece (not glossy)
                        and
                        > loosely wrap it over itself and place it briefly into the melt. The
                        > color should be a straw brown. Darker, and it's too hot.
                        > There are gating and venting techniques that can be used to reduce
                        > hot
                        > spots in castings as well.
                        >
                        > Good luck!
                        >
                        > Ron Mayer
                        > http://www.neymetals.com/
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