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Re: ACLU

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  • w_w_c_l
    ... Cassondra! It s good to see you again! But I m not so sure the America Ernest is talking about would allow women to talk politics on the internet. Of
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 4, 2007
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      --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
      cassondrawrites@... wrote:
      >
      > It never fails to amaze me how people
      > who are most often found criticizing
      > the government for its general ineptitude
      > and basic lack of moral center are
      > the first to plead for it to preach to
      > our children.

      Cassondra!

      It's good to see you again! But I'm not so sure
      the "America" Ernest is talking about would allow
      women to talk politics on the internet. Of course,
      people who hold the views you have expressed here
      will be the first ones lined up against the wall
      when the Revolution comes...

      > Goodness and truth do not require legislation
      > in order to stand. Historically speaking,
      > those societies who legislate most are the most
      > morally derelict. Laws cannot cure what ails
      > the heart of society...

      she screamed, as they led her away.


      > I would not be comfortable with any principle
      > which could ultimately be turned to rob me
      > of my liberty and rights.

      Blindfold? Cigarette?


      Rick
    • Ernest
      You make some very wonderful points here Cassondra, I do feel though that it is better to teach God than to teach God does not exist. cassondrawrites@aol.com
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 7, 2007
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        You make some very wonderful points here Cassondra, I do feel though that it is better to teach God than to teach God does not exist.

        cassondrawrites@... wrote: It never fails to amaze me how people who are most often found criticizing
        the government for its general ineptitude and basic lack of moral center are
        the first to plead for it to preach to our children. The public schools can
        barely teach our children to read, write, and cipher, and you expect me to
        believe they can effectively convey complicated philosophical concepts like the
        existence of God and his nature? That is first making the assumption that
        there could even be a general consensus on what those concepts are.

        Even Plato, who believed that such education should be entrusted to the
        state (not a FREE state, it is worth noting,) did not believe that philosophy
        should be taught at a young age as its concepts are too complex for the minds of
        children.

        Frankly, it is just plain insulting to God to state that he cannot prevail,
        that truth cannot stand on its own merits without the forced compliance of
        those of those who doubt him. Goodness and truth do not require legislation in
        order to stand. Historically speaking, those societies who legislate most
        are the most morally derelict. Laws cannot cure what ails the heart of
        society.

        In a free society, any version of God which could be sufficiently watered
        down to be palatable to the general populace could only be an affront to truth.
        The whole idea behind a "free marketplace of ideas" is that the truth will
        out - when all ideas meet on an equal playing field, the best ideas
        considered by the best minds will prevail. Let us be content to let God prevail
        there, on that free and open field. The immature and easily influenced minds of
        helpless children are NOT that marketplace, and they are not equipped to judge
        those arguments. Let their parents help and teach them at home, rather than
        forcing them to be manipulated by the political forces of the time into
        accepting the current popular religious doctrine.

        And those doctrines will change. Permit Christians to teach today and on
        the coasts, you will quickly have the Hindus and the Buddhists teaching
        instead. It is foolish to assume that even if you and your belief could wrest
        control today, that you could hold it. It is the principle, rather than the
        application, that should be evaluated. If it is right and good for God to be
        taught in school, then it is right and good for gods to be taught in school. I
        would not be comfortable with any principle which could ultimately be turned
        to rob me of my liberty and rights.

        Cassondra
        <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
        email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
        http://www.aol.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        For verily i say unto you, till heaven and earth pass one jot or one tittle shal in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mt.5:18









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • w_w_c_l
        ... Hi, Ernest. I m not Cassondra, but I ll go ahead and ask: Where are there any public schools teaching that God does not exist? I think what you mean to say
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 7, 2007
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          --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, Ernest <ernest77h@...> wrote:
          >
          > You make some very wonderful points here Cassondra,
          > I do feel though that it is better to teach God
          > than to teach God does not exist.

          Hi, Ernest.

          I'm not Cassondra, but I'll go ahead and ask:

          Where are there any public schools teaching
          that God does not exist?

          I think what you mean to say is that if they
          are teaching evolution, they are, by default,
          teaching that your version -- your interpretation --
          of the Creation account is wrong.


          Rick


          >
          > cassondrawrites@... wrote: It never fails to amaze me how
          people who are most often found criticizing
          > the government for its general ineptitude and basic lack of moral
          center are
          > the first to plead for it to preach to our children. The public
          schools can
          > barely teach our children to read, write, and cipher, and you
          expect me to
          > believe they can effectively convey complicated philosophical
          concepts like the
          > existence of God and his nature? That is first making the
          assumption that
          > there could even be a general consensus on what those concepts are.
          >
          > Even Plato, who believed that such education should be entrusted to
          the
          > state (not a FREE state, it is worth noting,) did not believe that
          philosophy
          > should be taught at a young age as its concepts are too complex for
          the minds of
          > children.
          >
          > Frankly, it is just plain insulting to God to state that he cannot
          prevail,
          > that truth cannot stand on its own merits without the forced
          compliance of
          > those of those who doubt him. Goodness and truth do not require
          legislation in
          > order to stand. Historically speaking, those societies who
          legislate most
          > are the most morally derelict. Laws cannot cure what ails the heart
          of
          > society.
          >
          > In a free society, any version of God which could be sufficiently
          watered
          > down to be palatable to the general populace could only be an
          affront to truth.
          > The whole idea behind a "free marketplace of ideas" is that the
          truth will
          > out - when all ideas meet on an equal playing field, the best ideas
          > considered by the best minds will prevail. Let us be content to let
          God prevail
          > there, on that free and open field. The immature and easily
          influenced minds of
          > helpless children are NOT that marketplace, and they are not
          equipped to judge
          > those arguments. Let their parents help and teach them at home,
          rather than
          > forcing them to be manipulated by the political forces of the time
          into
          > accepting the current popular religious doctrine.
          >
          > And those doctrines will change. Permit Christians to teach today
          and on
          > the coasts, you will quickly have the Hindus and the Buddhists
          teaching
          > instead. It is foolish to assume that even if you and your belief
          could wrest
          > control today, that you could hold it. It is the principle, rather
          than the
          > application, that should be evaluated. If it is right and good for
          God to be
          > taught in school, then it is right and good for gods to be taught
          in school. I
          > would not be comfortable with any principle which could ultimately
          be turned
          > to rob me of my liberty and rights.
          >
          > Cassondra
          > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now
          offers free
          > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
          > http://www.aol.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > For verily i say unto you, till heaven and earth pass one jot or
          one tittle shal in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
          Mt.5:18
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Todd S. Greene
          ... Rick, now why do you have to go and make the Orwellian newspeak so obvious. You take all the fun out of everything. - Todd ;-) ;-)
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 8, 2007
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            --- In Maury_and_Baty, Rick Hartzog wrote (post #9147):
            > --- In Maury_and_Baty, Ernest <ernest77h@> wrote:
            >> You make some very wonderful points here Cassondra,
            >> I do feel though that it is better to teach God
            >> than to teach God does not exist.
            >
            > Hi, Ernest.
            >
            > I'm not Cassondra, but I'll go ahead and ask:
            >
            > Where are there any public schools teaching
            > that God does not exist?
            >
            > I think what you mean to say is that if they
            > are teaching evolution, they are, by default,
            > teaching that your version -- your interpretation --
            > of the Creation account is wrong.

            Rick, now why do you have to go and make the Orwellian newspeak so
            obvious. You take all the fun out of everything.

            - Todd ;-) ;-)
          • w_w_c_l
            ... Well, I guess fun is all right if you enjoy that sort of thing. Maybe I m just geared more to the cheap thrill you can get out of antagonizing Big
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 8, 2007
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              --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
              "Todd S. Greene" <greeneto@...> wrote:
              >
              > Rick, now why do you have to go and make
              > the Orwellian newspeak so obvious?
              > You take all the fun out of everything.

              Well, I guess "fun" is all right if you
              enjoy that sort of thing. Maybe I'm just
              geared more to the "cheap thrill" you can
              get out of antagonizing Big Brother...


              Rick



              > --- In Maury_and_Baty, Rick Hartzog wrote (post #9147):
              > > --- In Maury_and_Baty, Ernest <ernest77h@> wrote:
              > >> You make some very wonderful points here Cassondra,
              > >> I do feel though that it is better to teach God
              > >> than to teach God does not exist.
              > >
              > > Hi, Ernest.
              > >
              > > I'm not Cassondra, but I'll go ahead and ask:
              > >
              > > Where are there any public schools teaching
              > > that God does not exist?
              > >
              > > I think what you mean to say is that if they
              > > are teaching evolution, they are, by default,
              > > teaching that your version -- your interpretation --
              > > of the Creation account is wrong.
              >
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