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The ContendingFTF shyster known as David Brown, et al!

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  • Robert Baty
    After considerable discussion on the recently formed ContendingFTF discussion list that was recently referenced on the CFTF list, David Brown, a preacher of
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 17, 2006
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      After considerable discussion on the recently formed ContendingFTF discussion list that was recently referenced on the CFTF list, David Brown, a preacher of some reknown, showed up as if to seriously consider the evidence of age issue.

      My position regarding the evidence of age issue in the context of discussing the "Goliath of GRAS" was clearly stated and repeated.

      Apparently the famous big name preacher in the guise of one David Brown showed a bit of his true colors, with cover provided by the operators of the list who removed me from that list, in pulling a rhetorical stunt in an effort to force me to do what I had clearly explained I was not inclined to do.

      While I am not unfamiliar with such tactics, and inferred he may be up to just such a stunt, I was hopeful he had other, more honorable interests and intentions.

      I was wrong. His interests and intentions did not appear honorable at all. It now appears to have simply been a ruse to trump a reason for trying to put me on the spot. That's OK; the spot, a big, black spot, is on David Brown and those covering for him, as well as others on the list who behaved in similarly unseemly fashion since last night; and that regarding the most simple of matters.

      So, for the record, I am posting this for the purpose of preserving some integrity of the record. I may try to provide a more complete history on my own list, if time and interest allows.

      Following is the post I tried to send to the ContendingFTF list after noting I was being removed (supposing the removal may not be effective yet). I got a confirmation note, but I do not know, as I write this, whether it was posted to the list or not.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty

      ########################
      ########################

      Submitted to the ContendingFTF list:

      The following (after my name below) cheap shot is further empirical evidence that even the "big names" like David Brown cannot read with understanding or engage in an honorable discussion.

      Shame, shame!

      Of course, it is just another chapter in a long book that shows the fundamental problems with those who would promote and defend the "young-earth, creation-science" hobby and the shenanigans used to protect and defend it.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty

      -----------------------------------

      --- In ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com, "Leon D. Schrei" <ldschrei@...> wrote:
      >
      > TO CONTENDNGFTF
      > FROM LEON D. SCHREI
      > ON BEHALF OF: DAVID P. BROWN
      >
      > Mr. Baty,
      >
      > You are the person who answered "True" to the proposition. Your answer means or should mean that you think you have the adequate evidence to prove your case. If you do not, why did you answer "True" to the propostion--"Some empirical evidence proves that the earth is older than a few thousand years"? Your so-called "Goliath of GRAS" demands that you supply the same adequate evidence to prove your case as is set out in your "Goliath of GRAS" as it takes to prove what I sent you. Indeed, what I sent you far better states your case than your "Goliath of Gras."
      >
      > Obviously, you do not have any intention of responding with adequate evidence argued properly to prove your case. If you really wanted to debate properly, your response would have been different. And, your "snip, snip" means that I now bid you farewell to ContendingFTF.
      >
      > David P. Brown
      >
      >
      > PS. Mr. Baty has been
      > removed from ContendingFTF.

      > LDS (Leon Schrei)

      ------------------------------------




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    • Robert Baty
      I think it important to preserve the historical record regarding the most unfortunate behavior recently displayed by David Brown on the ContendingFTF list.
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 17, 2006
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        I think it important to preserve the historical record regarding the most unfortunate behavior recently displayed by David Brown on the ContendingFTF list.

        Here is the post where he first showed up, making like he was going to take the discussion and invitation seriously (we later learned that was far from the truth):

        ##########################

        ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com
        From: David P Brown

        Subject: [ContendingFTF] old/young earth
        Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:26:19 -0800

        Mr. Baty,

        Since I have only yesterday afternoon returned from the U. K.. and, thus, have not been able to keep up withthe discussion in which you and several others are involved (as well as the discussion on this list in general),I would appreciate your helping me to know what theprecisely stated proposition is that you are affirming regarding the old earth/young earth issue.

        Could you help me by precisely stating your proposition?

        Thanks,
        David P. Brown

        ########################
        ########################

        My further comments,

        I will try to follow with the individual posts of the related messages leading up to Leon Schrei's, the surrogate, post and notice that I was being removed from the list.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty



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      • Robert Baty
        To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com From: rlbaty50 Subject: [ContendingFTF] Re: old/young earth Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:37:51 -0800 David, You may go to:
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 17, 2006
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          To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com
          From: rlbaty50

          Subject: [ContendingFTF] Re: old/young earth

          Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:37:51 -0800

          David,

          You may go to:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/7635

          There is the invitation that I previously gave here and containing the argument that logically sets forth the real world falsification test for the fundamental real world claim of the "young-earth,
          creation-science" movement.

          If you, or anyone else, wants to actually, formally, in writing, for the record, engage the discussion on the evidence of age aspect of the argument, the affirmative has already been signed up and, as far as I know, is still available.

          Details can be worked out should a wannabe "David" formally sign the
          proposition for discussion involving the evidence of age issue.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

          #########################




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        • Robert Baty
          To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com From: David P Brown Subject: [ContendingFTF] Baty s affirmative Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:40:18 -0800 Mr. Baty, Having read
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 17, 2006
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            To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com
            From: David P Brown

            Subject: [ContendingFTF] Baty's affirmative

            Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:40:18 -0800

            Mr. Baty,

            Having read your "syllogism," please answer the following True/False question.

            T F Some empirical evidence proves that the earth is older than a few thousand years.

            Thank You,
            David P. Brown

            #######################
            #######################

            My comments here regarding the above post:

            From the above, astute observers familiar with the antics of David Brown and others of the ContendingFTF list might infer the sinister motives of David Brown.

            I did, but I was hoping he would do better than it turns out he did.

            Other related posts to follow to show the execution of David Brown's, et al, plans to exhibit that hypocritical double standard and shut me up as far as the ContendingFTF list is concerned.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty




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          • Robert Baty
            ... This is a game, right? I ll play along on this one. ... Sincerely, Robert Baty ####################### ####################### My further comments: Little
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 17, 2006
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              To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com
              From: rlbaty50

              Subject: [ContendingFTF] Re: Baty's affirmative

              Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:47:25 -0800

              --- In ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com, "David P Brown" <jbrow@...> wrote:

              > Having read your "syllogism,"
              > please answer the following
              > True/False question.
              >
              > T F Some empirical evidence
              > proves that the earth is older
              > than a few thousand years.

              This is a game, right?

              I'll play along on this one.

              I think the correct answer is:

              > True!

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty

              #######################
              #######################

              My further comments:

              Little did I know just what kind of sinister game that David Brown and his kind had in mind!

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty




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            • Robert Baty
              To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com From: Robert Baty Subject: [ContendingFTF] Re: Baty s affirmative Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:41:56 -0800 ... David, If you
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 17, 2006
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                To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com
                From: Robert Baty

                Subject: [ContendingFTF] Re: Baty's affirmative

                Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:41:56 -0800


                David Brown, you wrote, in part:

                > ...your syllogism must read
                > as follows:

                > snip, snip

                David,

                If you don't want to formally, in writing, for the record, discuss the evidence of age issue as reflected in the "Goliath of GRAS", that's fine with me; just say so.

                Otherwise, you are welcome to formulate your own versions of (unless you take Dr. Fox's position) the real world falsification test of the real world claim fundamental to the "young-earth, creation-science" movement.

                Your effort doesn't come close to measuring up to my "Goliath of GRAS".

                You also wrote:

                > All you have to do is to supply
                > the adequate evidence that the
                > earth is older than a few thousand
                > years.

                Well, I guess that is one way to put the issue in dispute as far as the "Goliath of GRAS" is concerned.

                Now, where is that wannabe "David" that wants to formally, in writing, for the record, take up the evidence of age issue?

                David Brown?

                I don't think so, but surprise me if I be mistaken.

                The details can be worked out with the affirmative, not with me, should a suitable "David" candidate actually wish to engage in the proposed formal, in writing, for the record discussion.

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty

                #########################
                #########################

                My further comments:

                As it finally turned out, I guess David P. Brown was really stung by the realization that he is no "David"; not even close.

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty



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              • Robert Baty
                Following again, for the record, is the culminating and empirical evidence of the unseemly character and behavior of David P. Brown and others of the
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 17, 2006
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                  Following again, for the record, is the culminating and empirical evidence of the unseemly character and behavior of David P. Brown and others of the ContendingFTF list:

                  ##########################
                  ##########################

                  To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com
                  From: Leon D. Schrei

                  Subject: Fw: [ContendingFTF] Re: Baty's affirmative

                  Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:32:26 -0800

                  TO CONTENDNGFTF

                  FROM LEON D. SCHREI ON BEHALF OF: DAVID P. BROWN

                  Mr. Baty,

                  You are the person who answered "True" to the proposition.

                  Your answer means or should mean that you think youhave the adequate evidence to prove your case.

                  If you do not, why did you answer "True" to the propostion--

                  > "Some empirical evidence proves
                  > that the earth is older than a few
                  > thousand years"?

                  Your so-called "Goliath of GRAS" demands that you supply the same adequate evidence to prove your case as is set out in your"Goliath of GRAS" as it takes to prove what I sent you.

                  Indeed, what I sent you far better states your case than your "Goliath of GRAS."

                  Obviously, you do not have any intention of responding with adequate evidence argued properly to prove your case.

                  If you really wanted to debate properly, your response would have been different.

                  And, your "snip, snip" means that I now bid you farewell to ContendingFTF.

                  David P. Brown

                  PS. Mr. Baty has been removed
                  from ContendingFTF.

                  LDS (Leon D. Schrei)

                  ########################
                  ########################

                  My further comments:

                  The shots don't get much cheaper than that! I should not have expected more than what I had inferred from the David's post wherein he posed his question.

                  At least we have learned that David P. Brown is without character enough to allow for an open, honest discussion and that others on that list are similarly possessed as is evidenced by just how far ahead of them all I was running in dealing with the issues, sticking with the issues, trying to insure some responsible posting on the issues and resolve the simplest of matters.

                  I am inclined to characterize David P. Brown's post above as reflecting his lying and misrepresentation as well as hypocrisy and dishonesty.

                  For a public figure as David P. Brown, it really is quite a disappointment. We might have made more substantial progress on those issues which I had addressed (that, I think, is what they really didn't want; progress), but they would not.

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty



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                • Robert Baty
                  Here again, for the record, is what I sent in to the ContendingFTF list (but which was not posted because of my removal from the list) in response to David P.
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 17, 2006
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                    Here again, for the record, is what I sent in to the ContendingFTF list (but which was not posted because of my removal from the list) in response to David P. Brown's demonstration that he and his list members didn't possess the character to honestly engage a discussion on an important public issue:

                    ######################
                    ######################

                    To: ContendingFTF@yahoogroups.com
                    From: Robert Baty
                    Date: March 17, 2006

                    Subject: Re: Baty's affirmative

                    The following (after my name below) cheap shot is further empirical evidence that even the "big names" like David Brown cannot read with understanding or engage in an honorable discussion.

                    Shame, shame!

                    Of course, it is just another chapter in a long book that shows the fundamental problems with those who would promote and defend the "young-earth, creation-science" hobby and the shenanigans used to protect and defend it.

                    Sincerely,
                    Robert Baty

                    ######################
                    ######################



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