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Re: Gil Yoder/Spring/Dyersburg/AP Controversy?

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  • Robert H. Brandon
    Ah, it s spring and time for the schismatics to break out in bloom. Now they re going after each other. Lovely. - Bob Brandon ... list. A copy of which, with
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 7, 2006
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      Ah, it's spring and time for the schismatics to break out in bloom.
      Now they're going after each other. Lovely.

      - Bob Brandon


      --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Baty" <rlbaty@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Gil Yoder has posted a "public service announcement" to the CFTF
      list. A copy of which, with the link, is copied after my name below.
      >
      > It seems there were some secret things being talked about at the
      Spring, TX "Contending for the Faith" lectureship that some didn't
      want made "public".
      >
      > I couldn't figure out what the specific AP reference was to that Gil
      mentions in his post.
      >
      > Could it have something to do with Apologetics Press?
      >
      > If so, does anyone happen to know what all that was about?
      >
      > Sincerely,
      > Robert Baty
      >
      > ############################
      >
      > Message 23962 of 23967
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CFTF/message/23962
      >
      > From: "Gil Yoder"
      > Date: Sun Mar 5, 2006 3:44 pm
      >
      > Subject: Charges against Dyersburg Elders
      >
      > Dear brethren,
      >
      > I haven't posted often to this list, but I am compelled by recent
      events to give an answer to some of the charges which have recently
      been expressed against the elders of the Phillips Street Church of
      Christ, the elders which oversee the work at OABS.
      >
      > I have chosen this forum for at least a couple of reasons: one,
      because I am already a member of this list, and two, I have confidence
      in the moderators of this list to see that the discussion of these
      things be kept on a "even keel."
      >
      > To set the background for list members who might not yet be aware
      last week the elders at Phillips Street made a decision not to
      broadcast the all day open forum to be held at this year's lectures at
      the Spring Church of Christ.
      >
      > That decision was made last Sunday. The next day one of the elders
      called and spoke to brother Ken Cohn, one of the elders at Spring, to
      let him know of the decision.
      >
      > (The OABS server was already broadcasting the Sunday and Monday
      lectures.)
      >
      > In that phone call the Dyersburg elder apologized for the untimely
      nature of the decision, but they felt that the
      > decision was the right decision for the circumstances surrounding it.
      >
      > In the phone call and in other communications later about the
      decision the elders explained the reason for their judgment, i.e., it
      was their judgment that the subject matter of the open forum was not
      appropriate for a world wide audience, the kind of audience OABS serves.
      >
      > One can disagree with that judgment, if he wishes, and do nothing
      wrong, but such a judgment is clearly in the realm of opinion, and it
      is a sin to gainsay that judgment and call the motives of the ones who
      made it into question without just cause.
      >
      > The elders have published a statement about this event here, if you
      wish to read it:
      >
      > http://www.oabs.org/OABSExplanation.htm
      >
      > Several brethren have severely chastised the elders at Dyersburg for
      this decision. This is unseemly. It is unseemly because much of the
      criticism involves evil surmising about the motives of the elders, and
      has come often from those who have heard only one side of the
      equation. It is also unseemly because it is an effort to condemn the
      authorized exercise of authority given to bishops from the word of God.
      >
      > For example it has been charged that the elders at Dyersburg made
      this decision because they receive support the Forrest Hill Irene
      Church of Christ, one of the churches involved in the controversy over
      TGJ and AP.
      >
      > What has been ignored in this charge is that OABS receives support
      not only from Forrest Hill Irene, but also from a number of other
      churches like the Lee and Walnut church in Sapulpa, OK, where David
      Watson is an elder, and the Lenore Church of Christ where Kent Bailey
      works. Not only that the school at OABS has received non-financial
      support from numerous men like Darrell Broking and Mike Hatcher which
      has a value far greater than the financial support received from any
      one congregation.
      >
      > The elders knew that they put all of that support in jeopardy when
      they made the decision they made. We have already lost two instructors
      that will be difficult to replace, and we can expect to lose financial
      support as well.
      >
      > If the elders wished to protect its assets, they would not have made
      the decision that they made. It took courage, not greed, for these men
      to do what they believed to be the right thing to do.
      >
      > Brother Darrell Broking recently wrote a missive containing many
      unfortunate charges. In it he charged the elders at Dyersburg and Tom
      Bright with being unethical, dishonest, and divisive. Those charges
      are not only false; they
      > are extreme. I have considered Darrell to be a friend for many
      years, but I am sorely disappointed in the attitude his has displayed
      in this matter.
      >
      > I guess that I shouldn't be too surprised though. I have been
      disappointed often in these last few months when I have seen brethren
      go for one another's throats in the controversies which are
      surrounding us. It is one thing to deal with problems that exist in
      the body of Christ (and those on this list who know me know that I am
      not shy about dealing with error), but it is altogether another thing
      to attack brethren unfairly. Some are far too quick to judge, and that
      fact brings all of your judgments in to question.
      >
      > I have seen more division in the body of Christ this last year than
      I have seen in my 25 years preaching in the Lord's church. Some of
      that division has been justified, but not all. The snipping and biting
      needs to end, brethren, or the church will be too weak to carry the
      gospel to the world in
      > the near future. Many of the problems we are dealing with now, I
      believe, could be corrected, and we could have unity once again. But
      that cannot happen until everyone on all sides work some on their
      humility, and show some willingness to "suffer wrong" for the sake of
      the church.
      >
      > I'm sick of seeing brethren making fun of brethren, using biting
      irony and sarcasm, and looking cute, all of which may be entertaining,
      but it's tearing up the body of Christ. There is a time and a place
      for that kind of thing sometimes, but I'm convinced this isn't the
      time or the place.
      >
      > If we don't start working to resolve these difficulties, the blood
      of division will be on all of our hands.
      >
      > Gil Yoder
      >
      > #############################
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Robert Baty
      I had thought that the CFTF list was still public. Perhaps I had simply forgotten that it was intended to be a secret place such as the LURlist now is. In any
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 8, 2006
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        I had thought that the CFTF list was still public. Perhaps I had simply forgotten that it was intended to be a secret place such as the LURlist now is.

        In any case, I got a cryptic message from the CFTF moderator indicating that I had "left" the list and was welcome to return.

        I don't recall leaving, and I think there may be reason to believe I may not be welcomed back so easily.

        I wonder what that was all about. Is what is going on, was going on, regarding the dust up over the broadcast of the Spring lectures so big a deal and soooooo embarassing that secrecy is demanded!

        I thought we were, as a culture, moving towards more "transparency" regarding our religious institutions.

        Maybe Keith Sisman will come back around and explain what is going on to us.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty

        ########################

        To: rlbaty@...
        From: CFTF Moderator
        Subject: File - Goodbye.txt
        Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:44:58 -0800

        We are sorry to see you leave CFTF.

        Please feel free to return any time.

        To subscribe again send a message to CFTF-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your subscription status will be restored, and you will be able to send and receive messages to the list again.

        -the moderators

        #####################
        #####################
      • Robert Baty
        ###################### http://www.churchesofchrist.com/truth_internet_radio.htm
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 8, 2006
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        • Robert Baty
          Could you tell that the send button was accidentally hit prematurely with that previous post I just sent by mistake (it had not been completed)? I ll try
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 8, 2006
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            Could you tell that the "send" button was accidentally hit prematurely with that previous post I just sent by mistake (it had not been completed)?

            I'll try again.

            Following is a link & excerpts that provide some additional information regarding that secret "open forum" discussion at the Spring church lectureship.

            It looks like my opining that Gil's "AP" reference had something to do with Apologetics Press was correct.

            Looks like the "TGL" that was also referenced is The Gospel Journal.

            #####################
            http://www.churchesofchrist.com/truth_internet_radio.htm

            Tuesday, February 28th, 2006

            All day open forum.

            Subjects:

            Apologetics Press, Dave Miller...

            The Gospel Journal Board's involvement in the departure of Dub McClish as editor and David B. Watson as associate editor from TGJ, along with related topics.

            The spring elders, Kenneth D. Cohn and Buddy Roth, will moderate the forum.

            The speakers in the forum will be composed of those who accept the spring elders' written invitation.

            That invitation was mailed to them by certified mail with return receipt.

            Also questions for the forum will be accepted through the internet by email at the following address:

            cftfdpb@...

            ########################

            My further comments:

            Maybe Keith Sisman, or some other informed fellow, will make an appearance and further inform us of what all the hub-bub is about now.

            We know a little about Dave Miller and Apologetics Press and Dub McClish (boy, was/is some of Dub's older controversy splashed about the Internet; and that very much by his own hand).

            Anybody talking about what was going on behind those closed "open forum" doors in Spring, TX?

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty











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            -----Original Message-----
            From: Robert Baty
            Sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:54:14 -0800
            To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, coCBanned@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [M & B] Re: Gil Yoder/Spring/Dyersburg/AP Controversy?





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