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Gil Yoder/Spring/Dyersburg/AP Controversy?

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  • Robert Baty
    Gil Yoder has posted a public service announcement to the CFTF list. A copy of which, with the link, is copied after my name below. It seems there were some
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 7, 2006
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      Gil Yoder has posted a "public service announcement" to the CFTF list. A copy of which, with the link, is copied after my name below.

      It seems there were some secret things being talked about at the Spring, TX "Contending for the Faith" lectureship that some didn't want made "public".

      I couldn't figure out what the specific AP reference was to that Gil mentions in his post.

      Could it have something to do with Apologetics Press?

      If so, does anyone happen to know what all that was about?

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty

      ############################

      Message 23962 of 23967

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CFTF/message/23962

      From: "Gil Yoder"
      Date: Sun Mar 5, 2006 3:44 pm

      Subject: Charges against Dyersburg Elders

      Dear brethren,

      I haven't posted often to this list, but I am compelled by recent events to give an answer to some of the charges which have recently been expressed against the elders of the Phillips Street Church of Christ, the elders which oversee the work at OABS.

      I have chosen this forum for at least a couple of reasons: one, because I am already a member of this list, and two, I have confidence in the moderators of this list to see that the discussion of these things be kept on a "even keel."

      To set the background for list members who might not yet be aware last week the elders at Phillips Street made a decision not to broadcast the all day open forum to be held at this year's lectures at the Spring Church of Christ.

      That decision was made last Sunday. The next day one of the elders called and spoke to brother Ken Cohn, one of the elders at Spring, to let him know of the decision.

      (The OABS server was already broadcasting the Sunday and Monday lectures.)

      In that phone call the Dyersburg elder apologized for the untimely nature of the decision, but they felt that the
      decision was the right decision for the circumstances surrounding it.

      In the phone call and in other communications later about the decision the elders explained the reason for their judgment, i.e., it was their judgment that the subject matter of the open forum was not appropriate for a world wide audience, the kind of audience OABS serves.

      One can disagree with that judgment, if he wishes, and do nothing wrong, but such a judgment is clearly in the realm of opinion, and it is a sin to gainsay that judgment and call the motives of the ones who made it into question without just cause.

      The elders have published a statement about this event here, if you wish to read it:

      http://www.oabs.org/OABSExplanation.htm

      Several brethren have severely chastised the elders at Dyersburg for this decision. This is unseemly. It is unseemly because much of the criticism involves evil surmising about the motives of the elders, and has come often from those who have heard only one side of the equation. It is also unseemly because it is an effort to condemn the authorized exercise of authority given to bishops from the word of God.

      For example it has been charged that the elders at Dyersburg made this decision because they receive support the Forrest Hill Irene Church of Christ, one of the churches involved in the controversy over TGJ and AP.

      What has been ignored in this charge is that OABS receives support not only from Forrest Hill Irene, but also from a number of other churches like the Lee and Walnut church in Sapulpa, OK, where David Watson is an elder, and the Lenore Church of Christ where Kent Bailey works. Not only that the school at OABS has received non-financial support from numerous men like Darrell Broking and Mike Hatcher which has a value far greater than the financial support received from any one congregation.

      The elders knew that they put all of that support in jeopardy when they made the decision they made. We have already lost two instructors that will be difficult to replace, and we can expect to lose financial support as well.

      If the elders wished to protect its assets, they would not have made the decision that they made. It took courage, not greed, for these men to do what they believed to be the right thing to do.

      Brother Darrell Broking recently wrote a missive containing many unfortunate charges. In it he charged the elders at Dyersburg and Tom Bright with being unethical, dishonest, and divisive. Those charges are not only false; they
      are extreme. I have considered Darrell to be a friend for many years, but I am sorely disappointed in the attitude his has displayed in this matter.

      I guess that I shouldn't be too surprised though. I have been disappointed often in these last few months when I have seen brethren go for one another's throats in the controversies which are surrounding us. It is one thing to deal with problems that exist in the body of Christ (and those on this list who know me know that I am not shy about dealing with error), but it is altogether another thing to attack brethren unfairly. Some are far too quick to judge, and that fact brings all of your judgments in to question.

      I have seen more division in the body of Christ this last year than I have seen in my 25 years preaching in the Lord's church. Some of that division has been justified, but not all. The snipping and biting needs to end, brethren, or the church will be too weak to carry the gospel to the world in
      the near future. Many of the problems we are dealing with now, I believe, could be corrected, and we could have unity once again. But that cannot happen until everyone on all sides work some on their humility, and show some willingness to "suffer wrong" for the sake of the church.

      I'm sick of seeing brethren making fun of brethren, using biting irony and sarcasm, and looking cute, all of which may be entertaining, but it's tearing up the body of Christ. There is a time and a place for that kind of thing sometimes, but I'm convinced this isn't the time or the place.

      If we don't start working to resolve these difficulties, the blood of division will be on all of our hands.

      Gil Yoder

      #############################




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert H. Brandon
      Ah, it s spring and time for the schismatics to break out in bloom. Now they re going after each other. Lovely. - Bob Brandon ... list. A copy of which, with
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 7, 2006
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        Ah, it's spring and time for the schismatics to break out in bloom.
        Now they're going after each other. Lovely.

        - Bob Brandon


        --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Baty" <rlbaty@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Gil Yoder has posted a "public service announcement" to the CFTF
        list. A copy of which, with the link, is copied after my name below.
        >
        > It seems there were some secret things being talked about at the
        Spring, TX "Contending for the Faith" lectureship that some didn't
        want made "public".
        >
        > I couldn't figure out what the specific AP reference was to that Gil
        mentions in his post.
        >
        > Could it have something to do with Apologetics Press?
        >
        > If so, does anyone happen to know what all that was about?
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Robert Baty
        >
        > ############################
        >
        > Message 23962 of 23967
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CFTF/message/23962
        >
        > From: "Gil Yoder"
        > Date: Sun Mar 5, 2006 3:44 pm
        >
        > Subject: Charges against Dyersburg Elders
        >
        > Dear brethren,
        >
        > I haven't posted often to this list, but I am compelled by recent
        events to give an answer to some of the charges which have recently
        been expressed against the elders of the Phillips Street Church of
        Christ, the elders which oversee the work at OABS.
        >
        > I have chosen this forum for at least a couple of reasons: one,
        because I am already a member of this list, and two, I have confidence
        in the moderators of this list to see that the discussion of these
        things be kept on a "even keel."
        >
        > To set the background for list members who might not yet be aware
        last week the elders at Phillips Street made a decision not to
        broadcast the all day open forum to be held at this year's lectures at
        the Spring Church of Christ.
        >
        > That decision was made last Sunday. The next day one of the elders
        called and spoke to brother Ken Cohn, one of the elders at Spring, to
        let him know of the decision.
        >
        > (The OABS server was already broadcasting the Sunday and Monday
        lectures.)
        >
        > In that phone call the Dyersburg elder apologized for the untimely
        nature of the decision, but they felt that the
        > decision was the right decision for the circumstances surrounding it.
        >
        > In the phone call and in other communications later about the
        decision the elders explained the reason for their judgment, i.e., it
        was their judgment that the subject matter of the open forum was not
        appropriate for a world wide audience, the kind of audience OABS serves.
        >
        > One can disagree with that judgment, if he wishes, and do nothing
        wrong, but such a judgment is clearly in the realm of opinion, and it
        is a sin to gainsay that judgment and call the motives of the ones who
        made it into question without just cause.
        >
        > The elders have published a statement about this event here, if you
        wish to read it:
        >
        > http://www.oabs.org/OABSExplanation.htm
        >
        > Several brethren have severely chastised the elders at Dyersburg for
        this decision. This is unseemly. It is unseemly because much of the
        criticism involves evil surmising about the motives of the elders, and
        has come often from those who have heard only one side of the
        equation. It is also unseemly because it is an effort to condemn the
        authorized exercise of authority given to bishops from the word of God.
        >
        > For example it has been charged that the elders at Dyersburg made
        this decision because they receive support the Forrest Hill Irene
        Church of Christ, one of the churches involved in the controversy over
        TGJ and AP.
        >
        > What has been ignored in this charge is that OABS receives support
        not only from Forrest Hill Irene, but also from a number of other
        churches like the Lee and Walnut church in Sapulpa, OK, where David
        Watson is an elder, and the Lenore Church of Christ where Kent Bailey
        works. Not only that the school at OABS has received non-financial
        support from numerous men like Darrell Broking and Mike Hatcher which
        has a value far greater than the financial support received from any
        one congregation.
        >
        > The elders knew that they put all of that support in jeopardy when
        they made the decision they made. We have already lost two instructors
        that will be difficult to replace, and we can expect to lose financial
        support as well.
        >
        > If the elders wished to protect its assets, they would not have made
        the decision that they made. It took courage, not greed, for these men
        to do what they believed to be the right thing to do.
        >
        > Brother Darrell Broking recently wrote a missive containing many
        unfortunate charges. In it he charged the elders at Dyersburg and Tom
        Bright with being unethical, dishonest, and divisive. Those charges
        are not only false; they
        > are extreme. I have considered Darrell to be a friend for many
        years, but I am sorely disappointed in the attitude his has displayed
        in this matter.
        >
        > I guess that I shouldn't be too surprised though. I have been
        disappointed often in these last few months when I have seen brethren
        go for one another's throats in the controversies which are
        surrounding us. It is one thing to deal with problems that exist in
        the body of Christ (and those on this list who know me know that I am
        not shy about dealing with error), but it is altogether another thing
        to attack brethren unfairly. Some are far too quick to judge, and that
        fact brings all of your judgments in to question.
        >
        > I have seen more division in the body of Christ this last year than
        I have seen in my 25 years preaching in the Lord's church. Some of
        that division has been justified, but not all. The snipping and biting
        needs to end, brethren, or the church will be too weak to carry the
        gospel to the world in
        > the near future. Many of the problems we are dealing with now, I
        believe, could be corrected, and we could have unity once again. But
        that cannot happen until everyone on all sides work some on their
        humility, and show some willingness to "suffer wrong" for the sake of
        the church.
        >
        > I'm sick of seeing brethren making fun of brethren, using biting
        irony and sarcasm, and looking cute, all of which may be entertaining,
        but it's tearing up the body of Christ. There is a time and a place
        for that kind of thing sometimes, but I'm convinced this isn't the
        time or the place.
        >
        > If we don't start working to resolve these difficulties, the blood
        of division will be on all of our hands.
        >
        > Gil Yoder
        >
        > #############################
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Robert Baty
        I had thought that the CFTF list was still public. Perhaps I had simply forgotten that it was intended to be a secret place such as the LURlist now is. In any
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 8, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          I had thought that the CFTF list was still public. Perhaps I had simply forgotten that it was intended to be a secret place such as the LURlist now is.

          In any case, I got a cryptic message from the CFTF moderator indicating that I had "left" the list and was welcome to return.

          I don't recall leaving, and I think there may be reason to believe I may not be welcomed back so easily.

          I wonder what that was all about. Is what is going on, was going on, regarding the dust up over the broadcast of the Spring lectures so big a deal and soooooo embarassing that secrecy is demanded!

          I thought we were, as a culture, moving towards more "transparency" regarding our religious institutions.

          Maybe Keith Sisman will come back around and explain what is going on to us.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

          ########################

          To: rlbaty@...
          From: CFTF Moderator
          Subject: File - Goodbye.txt
          Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:44:58 -0800

          We are sorry to see you leave CFTF.

          Please feel free to return any time.

          To subscribe again send a message to CFTF-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your subscription status will be restored, and you will be able to send and receive messages to the list again.

          -the moderators

          #####################
          #####################
        • Robert Baty
          ###################### http://www.churchesofchrist.com/truth_internet_radio.htm
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 8, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
          • Robert Baty
            Could you tell that the send button was accidentally hit prematurely with that previous post I just sent by mistake (it had not been completed)? I ll try
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 8, 2006
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              Could you tell that the "send" button was accidentally hit prematurely with that previous post I just sent by mistake (it had not been completed)?

              I'll try again.

              Following is a link & excerpts that provide some additional information regarding that secret "open forum" discussion at the Spring church lectureship.

              It looks like my opining that Gil's "AP" reference had something to do with Apologetics Press was correct.

              Looks like the "TGL" that was also referenced is The Gospel Journal.

              #####################
              http://www.churchesofchrist.com/truth_internet_radio.htm

              Tuesday, February 28th, 2006

              All day open forum.

              Subjects:

              Apologetics Press, Dave Miller...

              The Gospel Journal Board's involvement in the departure of Dub McClish as editor and David B. Watson as associate editor from TGJ, along with related topics.

              The spring elders, Kenneth D. Cohn and Buddy Roth, will moderate the forum.

              The speakers in the forum will be composed of those who accept the spring elders' written invitation.

              That invitation was mailed to them by certified mail with return receipt.

              Also questions for the forum will be accepted through the internet by email at the following address:

              cftfdpb@...

              ########################

              My further comments:

              Maybe Keith Sisman, or some other informed fellow, will make an appearance and further inform us of what all the hub-bub is about now.

              We know a little about Dave Miller and Apologetics Press and Dub McClish (boy, was/is some of Dub's older controversy splashed about the Internet; and that very much by his own hand).

              Anybody talking about what was going on behind those closed "open forum" doors in Spring, TX?

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty











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              -----Original Message-----
              From: Robert Baty
              Sent: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:54:14 -0800
              To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, coCBanned@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [M & B] Re: Gil Yoder/Spring/Dyersburg/AP Controversy?





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