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Lisa Miller Case Update

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  • Robert Baty
    ... You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins daughter. He appealed his conviction
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 27, 2013
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      ---

      You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

      He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

      Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

      Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty
    • Robert Baty
      https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com From: rlbaty@webtv.net Date: Sun,
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 27, 2013
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        https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

        https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


        To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
        From: rlbaty@...
        Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
        Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

         

        ---

        You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

        He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

        Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

        Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty

      • bucksburg
        Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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           Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a manner indistinguishable from the relationship between a master and her slave.


          Mr. Buck



          ---In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <rlbaty@...> wrote:

          https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

          https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


          To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
          From: rlbaty@...
          Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
          Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

           

          ---

          You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

          He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

          Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

          Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

        • Robert Baty
          Buck, you write, in part: - Isabella Miller has never been defined - in any court as Janet Jenkins daughter. Is that so? It might be interesting to check
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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            Buck, you write, in part:

            - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
            - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter."

            Is that so?

            It might be interesting to check and see what some of the Courts' observations have said about that.

            I don't think you can prove that universal negative claim, Buck, but you can try while I am waiting for the time to browse and see if I can show you up on that!

            In any case, under the law, I think "daughter" is an appropriate label to assign as to the relationship between Isabella and Janet.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty


            To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
            From: bucksburg@...
            Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:13:33 -0700
            Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

             

             Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a manner indistinguishable from the relationship between a master and her slave.


            Mr. Buck



            ---In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <rlbaty@...> wrote:

            https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

            https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


            To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
            From: rlbaty@...
            Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
            Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

             

            ---

            You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

            He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

            Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

            Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty


          • Robert Baty
            Buck, ... UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT Case No. 2:12-cv-184 JANET JENKINS, for herself and as next friend of ISABELLA MILLER-
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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              Buck,

              Would you give up your quibble based on the following which I just happened to notice appears in the opening paragraph of the latest filing in the Janet Jenkins case:

              ------------------------------------------

              UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
              FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

              Case No. 2:12-cv-184

              JANET JENKINS,
              for herself and as next friend of
              ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
              a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

              Plaintiffs,

              v. 

              KENNETH L. MILLER,
              LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
              TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
              ANDREW YODER, individually
              and as an agent for
              CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
              CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
              RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
              PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
              and as an agent for
              RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
              VICTORIA HYDEN,
              f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
              individually and as an agent for both
              RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
              LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
              and its related ministry
              THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
              LINDA M. WALL, individually
              and as agent for
              THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
              and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

              Defendants.

              OPINION AND ORDER

              (excerpts)

              Plaintiff Janet Jenkins,

              for herself and as next friend of
              her daughter Isabella Miller-Jenkins,

              has brought suit against several individuals
              and organizations, alleging that they
              kidnapped and conspired to kidnap Isabella.

              (snip 77 pages)

              Dated at Burlington,
              in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

              /s/ William K. Sessions III
              William K. Sessions III
              United States District Court Judge

              ------------------------------------------------
              ------------------------------------------------


              To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
              From: rlbaty@...
              Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:19:21 -0400
              Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

               

              Buck, you write, in part:

              - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
              - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter."

              Is that so?

              It might be interesting to check and see what some of the Courts' observations have said about that.

              I don't think you can prove that universal negative claim, Buck, but you can try while I am waiting for the time to browse and see if I can show you up on that!

              In any case, under the law, I think "daughter" is an appropriate label to assign as to the relationship between Isabella and Janet.

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty


              To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
              From: bucksburg@...
              Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:13:33 -0700
              Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

               

               Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a manner indistinguishable from the relationship between a master and her slave.


              Mr. Buck



              ---In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <rlbaty@...> wrote:

              https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

              https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


              To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
              From: rlbaty@...
              Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
              Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

               

              ---

              You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

              He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

              Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

              Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty



            • Robert Baty
              Buck, ... UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT Case No. 2:12-cv-184 JANET JENKINS, for herself and as next friend of ISABELLA MILLER-
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Buck,

                Here's another excerpt from the recently filed ORDER in the Janet Jenkins case:

                --------------------------------------------

                UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                JANET JENKINS,
                for herself and as next friend of
                ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                Plaintiffs,

                v. 

                KENNETH L. MILLER,
                LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                ANDREW YODER, individually
                and as an agent for
                CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                and as an agent for
                RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                VICTORIA HYDEN,
                f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                individually and as an agent for both
                RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                and its related ministry
                THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                LINDA M. WALL, individually
                and as agent for
                THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                Defendants.

                OPINION AND ORDER

                (excerpts)

                Background

                I.

                The Litigation between Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins

                Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter of Defendant Lisa
                Miller and Janet Jenkins.

                She is the biological child of Lisa Miller, born in April 2002
                while the two women were joined in a civil union, which
                they obtained in Vermont in 2000.

                Dated at Burlington,
                in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                /s/ William K. Sessions III
                William K. Sessions III
                United States District Court Judge

                ------------------------------------------------
                ------------------------------------------------



                To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                From: rlbaty@...
                Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:02:44 -0400
                Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                 

                Buck,

                Would you give up your quibble based on the following which I just happened to notice appears in the opening paragraph of the latest filing in the Janet Jenkins case:

                ------------------------------------------

                UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                JANET JENKINS,
                for herself and as next friend of
                ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                Plaintiffs,

                v. 

                KENNETH L. MILLER,
                LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                ANDREW YODER, individually
                and as an agent for
                CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                and as an agent for
                RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                VICTORIA HYDEN,
                f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                individually and as an agent for both
                RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                and its related ministry
                THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                LINDA M. WALL, individually
                and as agent for
                THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                Defendants.

                OPINION AND ORDER

                (excerpts)

                Plaintiff Janet Jenkins,

                for herself and as next friend of
                her daughter Isabella Miller-Jenkins,

                has brought suit against several individuals
                and organizations, alleging that they
                kidnapped and conspired to kidnap Isabella.

                (snip 77 pages)

                Dated at Burlington,
                in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                /s/ William K. Sessions III
                William K. Sessions III
                United States District Court Judge

                ------------------------------------------------
                ------------------------------------------------


                To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                From: rlbaty@...
                Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:19:21 -0400
                Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                 

                Buck, you write, in part:

                - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
                - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter."

                Is that so?

                It might be interesting to check and see what some of the Courts' observations have said about that.

                I don't think you can prove that universal negative claim, Buck, but you can try while I am waiting for the time to browse and see if I can show you up on that!

                In any case, under the law, I think "daughter" is an appropriate label to assign as to the relationship between Isabella and Janet.

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty


                To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                From: bucksburg@...
                Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:13:33 -0700
                Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                 

                 Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a manner indistinguishable from the relationship between a master and her slave.


                Mr. Buck



                ---In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <rlbaty@...> wrote:

                https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

                https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


                To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                From: rlbaty@...
                Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
                Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

                 

                ---

                You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

                He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

                Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

                Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty




              • Robert Baty
                Janet & Isabella - Virginia 2007 To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com From: rlbaty@webtv.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:22:07 -0400 Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Janet & Isabella - Virginia 2007







                  To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                  From: rlbaty@...
                  Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:22:07 -0400
                  Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                   

                  Buck,

                  Here's another excerpt from the recently filed ORDER in the Janet Jenkins case:

                  --------------------------------------------

                  UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                  FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                  Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                  JANET JENKINS,
                  for herself and as next friend of
                  ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                  a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                  Plaintiffs,

                  v. 

                  KENNETH L. MILLER,
                  LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                  TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                  ANDREW YODER, individually
                  and as an agent for
                  CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                  CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                  RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                  PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                  and as an agent for
                  RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                  VICTORIA HYDEN,
                  f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                  individually and as an agent for both
                  RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                  LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                  and its related ministry
                  THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                  LINDA M. WALL, individually
                  and as agent for
                  THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                  and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                  Defendants.

                  OPINION AND ORDER

                  (excerpts)

                  Background

                  I.

                  The Litigation between Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins

                  Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter of Defendant Lisa
                  Miller and Janet Jenkins.

                  She is the biological child of Lisa Miller, born in April 2002
                  while the two women were joined in a civil union, which
                  they obtained in Vermont in 2000.

                  Dated at Burlington,
                  in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                  /s/ William K. Sessions III
                  William K. Sessions III
                  United States District Court Judge

                  ------------------------------------------------
                  ------------------------------------------------



                  To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                  From: rlbaty@...
                  Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:02:44 -0400
                  Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                   

                  Buck,

                  Would you give up your quibble based on the following which I just happened to notice appears in the opening paragraph of the latest filing in the Janet Jenkins case:

                  ------------------------------------------

                  UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                  FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                  Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                  JANET JENKINS,
                  for herself and as next friend of
                  ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                  a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                  Plaintiffs,

                  v. 

                  KENNETH L. MILLER,
                  LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                  TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                  ANDREW YODER, individually
                  and as an agent for
                  CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                  CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                  RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                  PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                  and as an agent for
                  RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                  VICTORIA HYDEN,
                  f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                  individually and as an agent for both
                  RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                  LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                  and its related ministry
                  THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                  LINDA M. WALL, individually
                  and as agent for
                  THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                  and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                  Defendants.

                  OPINION AND ORDER

                  (excerpts)

                  Plaintiff Janet Jenkins,

                  for herself and as next friend of
                  her daughter Isabella Miller-Jenkins,

                  has brought suit against several individuals
                  and organizations, alleging that they
                  kidnapped and conspired to kidnap Isabella.

                  (snip 77 pages)

                  Dated at Burlington,
                  in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                  /s/ William K. Sessions III
                  William K. Sessions III
                  United States District Court Judge

                  ------------------------------------------------
                  ------------------------------------------------


                  To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                  From: rlbaty@...
                  Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:19:21 -0400
                  Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                   

                  Buck, you write, in part:

                  - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
                  - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter."

                  Is that so?

                  It might be interesting to check and see what some of the Courts' observations have said about that.

                  I don't think you can prove that universal negative claim, Buck, but you can try while I am waiting for the time to browse and see if I can show you up on that!

                  In any case, under the law, I think "daughter" is an appropriate label to assign as to the relationship between Isabella and Janet.

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty


                  To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                  From: bucksburg@...
                  Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:13:33 -0700
                  Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                   

                   Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a manner indistinguishable from the relationship between a master and her slave.


                  Mr. Buck



                  ---In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <rlbaty@...> wrote:

                  https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

                  https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


                  To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                  From: rlbaty@...
                  Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
                  Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

                   

                  ---

                  You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

                  He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

                  Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

                  Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty





                • bucksburg
                  Thanks for that, Robert. I see that Janet Jenkins has asserted that Isabella is her daughter in the wording of a civil suit she has filed against a long list
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Thanks for that, Robert.


                    I see that Janet Jenkins has asserted that Isabella is her daughter in the wording of a civil suit she has filed against a long list of defendants, who are slowly being removed from the case by judge Sessions. 


                    The various defending attorneys clearly missed the chance to challenge this assertion, and I hope that at least one of them who is monitoring this site will do something about it.


                    In order to be someone's daughter, either she has to be your female ancestor in the first generation, or have given birth to you, or have legally adopted you.


                    Short of that, I guess you could call Isabella Janet's 'foster daughter' as long as that modifier is always attached.





                    ---In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, <maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Janet & Isabella - Virginia 2007







                    To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                    From: rlbaty@...
                    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:22:07 -0400
                    Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                     

                    Buck,

                    Here's another excerpt from the recently filed ORDER in the Janet Jenkins case:

                    --------------------------------------------

                    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                    FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                    Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                    JANET JENKINS,
                    for herself and as next friend of
                    ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                    a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                    Plaintiffs,

                    v. 

                    KENNETH L. MILLER,
                    LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                    TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                    ANDREW YODER, individually
                    and as an agent for
                    CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                    CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                    RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                    PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                    and as an agent for
                    RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                    VICTORIA HYDEN,
                    f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                    individually and as an agent for both
                    RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                    LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                    and its related ministry
                    THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                    LINDA M. WALL, individually
                    and as agent for
                    THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                    and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                    Defendants.

                    OPINION AND ORDER

                    (excerpts)

                    Background

                    I.

                    The Litigation between Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins

                    Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter of Defendant Lisa
                    Miller and Janet Jenkins.

                    She is the biological child of Lisa Miller, born in April 2002
                    while the two women were joined in a civil union, which
                    they obtained in Vermont in 2000.

                    Dated at Burlington,
                    in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                    /s/ William K. Sessions III
                    William K. Sessions III
                    United States District Court Judge

                    ------------------------------------------------
                    ------------------------------------------------



                    To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                    From: rlbaty@...
                    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:02:44 -0400
                    Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                     

                    Buck,

                    Would you give up your quibble based on the following which I just happened to notice appears in the opening paragraph of the latest filing in the Janet Jenkins case:

                    ------------------------------------------

                    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                    FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                    Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                    JANET JENKINS,
                    for herself and as next friend of
                    ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                    a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                    Plaintiffs,

                    v. 

                    KENNETH L. MILLER,
                    LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                    TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                    ANDREW YODER, individually
                    and as an agent for
                    CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                    CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                    RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                    PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                    and as an agent for
                    RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                    VICTORIA HYDEN,
                    f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                    individually and as an agent for both
                    RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                    LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                    and its related ministry
                    THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                    LINDA M. WALL, individually
                    and as agent for
                    THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                    and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                    Defendants.

                    OPINION AND ORDER

                    (excerpts)

                    Plaintiff Janet Jenkins,

                    for herself and as next friend of
                    her daughter Isabella Miller-Jenkins,

                    has brought suit against several individuals
                    and organizations, alleging that they
                    kidnapped and conspired to kidnap Isabella.

                    (snip 77 pages)

                    Dated at Burlington,
                    in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                    /s/ William K. Sessions III
                    William K. Sessions III
                    United States District Court Judge

                    ------------------------------------------------
                    ------------------------------------------------


                    To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                    From: rlbaty@...
                    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:19:21 -0400
                    Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                     

                    Buck, you write, in part:

                    - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
                    - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter."

                    Is that so?

                    It might be interesting to check and see what some of the Courts' observations have said about that.

                    I don't think you can prove that universal negative claim, Buck, but you can try while I am waiting for the time to browse and see if I can show you up on that!

                    In any case, under the law, I think "daughter" is an appropriate label to assign as to the relationship between Isabella and Janet.

                    Sincerely,
                    Robert Baty


                    To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                    From: bucksburg@...
                    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:13:33 -0700
                    Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                     

                     Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a manner indistinguishable from the relationship between a master and her slave.


                    Mr. Buck



                    ---In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <rlbaty@...> wrote:

                    https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

                    https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


                    To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                    From: rlbaty@...
                    Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
                    Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

                     

                    ---

                    You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

                    He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

                    Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

                    Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

                    Sincerely,
                    Robert Baty





                  • Robert Baty
                    Buck, You are welcome, but I think you are missing the point of the daughter controversy. As a matter of law, as was explained in the references I gave you,
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Buck,

                      You are welcome, but I think you are missing the point of the "daughter" controversy.

                      As a matter of law, as was explained in the references I gave you, Isabella is Janet's daughter.

                      Isabella was born at a time and into a union recognized under the law and enjoying certain legal benefits.

                      One of the benefits, or at least consequences, is that a child born into such a union is considered the child of the persons in the union;  a rebuttable presumption.

                      I understand some don't like it for one reason or another, but when someone refers to Isabella as Janet's daughter, that's what it means as a matter of law; Isabella is Janet's daughter as a matter of law and as is being recognized by the Court(s) who have addressed the issue.

                      Buck, your definition, for whatever reason, fails to acknowledge the legal definition applicable to the case.

                      Sincerely,
                      Robert Baty

                       


                      To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                      From: bucksburg@...
                      Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:45:40 -0700
                      Subject: RE: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                       

                      Thanks for that, Robert.


                      I see that Janet Jenkins has asserted that Isabella is her daughter in the wording of a civil suit she has filed against a long list of defendants, who are slowly being removed from the case by judge Sessions. 


                      The various defending attorneys clearly missed the chance to challenge this assertion, and I hope that at least one of them who is monitoring this site will do something about it.


                      In order to be someone's daughter, either she has to be your female ancestor in the first generation, or have given birth to you, or have legally adopted you.


                      Short of that, I guess you could call Isabella Janet's 'foster daughter' as long as that modifier is always attached.





                      ---In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, <maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Janet & Isabella - Virginia 2007







                      To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                      From: rlbaty@...
                      Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:22:07 -0400
                      Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                       

                      Buck,

                      Here's another excerpt from the recently filed ORDER in the Janet Jenkins case:

                      --------------------------------------------

                      UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                      FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                      Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                      JANET JENKINS,
                      for herself and as next friend of
                      ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                      a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                      Plaintiffs,

                      v. 

                      KENNETH L. MILLER,
                      LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                      TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                      ANDREW YODER, individually
                      and as an agent for
                      CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                      CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                      RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                      PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                      and as an agent for
                      RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                      VICTORIA HYDEN,
                      f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                      individually and as an agent for both
                      RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                      LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                      and its related ministry
                      THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                      LINDA M. WALL, individually
                      and as agent for
                      THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                      and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                      Defendants.

                      OPINION AND ORDER

                      (excerpts)

                      Background

                      I.

                      The Litigation between Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins

                      Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter of Defendant Lisa
                      Miller and Janet Jenkins.

                      She is the biological child of Lisa Miller, born in April 2002
                      while the two women were joined in a civil union, which
                      they obtained in Vermont in 2000.

                      Dated at Burlington,
                      in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                      /s/ William K. Sessions III
                      William K. Sessions III
                      United States District Court Judge

                      ------------------------------------------------
                      ------------------------------------------------



                      To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                      From: rlbaty@...
                      Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:02:44 -0400
                      Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                       

                      Buck,

                      Would you give up your quibble based on the following which I just happened to notice appears in the opening paragraph of the latest filing in the Janet Jenkins case:

                      ------------------------------------------

                      UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                      FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                      Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                      JANET JENKINS,
                      for herself and as next friend of
                      ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                      a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                      Plaintiffs,

                      v. 

                      KENNETH L. MILLER,
                      LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                      TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                      ANDREW YODER, individually
                      and as an agent for
                      CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                      CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                      RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                      PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                      and as an agent for
                      RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                      VICTORIA HYDEN,
                      f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                      individually and as an agent for both
                      RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                      LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                      and its related ministry
                      THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                      LINDA M. WALL, individually
                      and as agent for
                      THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                      and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                      Defendants.

                      OPINION AND ORDER

                      (excerpts)

                      Plaintiff Janet Jenkins,

                      for herself and as next friend of
                      her daughter Isabella Miller-Jenkins,

                      has brought suit against several individuals
                      and organizations, alleging that they
                      kidnapped and conspired to kidnap Isabella.

                      (snip 77 pages)

                      Dated at Burlington,
                      in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                      /s/ William K. Sessions III
                      William K. Sessions III
                      United States District Court Judge

                      ------------------------------------------------
                      ------------------------------------------------


                      To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                      From: rlbaty@...
                      Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:19:21 -0400
                      Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                       

                      Buck, you write, in part:

                      - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
                      - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter."

                      Is that so?

                      It might be interesting to check and see what some of the Courts' observations have said about that.

                      I don't think you can prove that universal negative claim, Buck, but you can try while I am waiting for the time to browse and see if I can show you up on that!

                      In any case, under the law, I think "daughter" is an appropriate label to assign as to the relationship between Isabella and Janet.

                      Sincerely,
                      Robert Baty


                      To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                      From: bucksburg@...
                      Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:13:33 -0700
                      Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                       

                       Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a manner indistinguishable from the relationship between a master and her slave.


                      Mr. Buck



                      ---In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <rlbaty@...> wrote:

                      https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

                      https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


                      To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                      From: rlbaty@...
                      Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
                      Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

                       

                      ---

                      You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

                      He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

                      Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

                      Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

                      Sincerely,
                      Robert Baty






                    • bucksburg
                      If I m missing anything, it s any mention by a court official (not a plaintiff) that Isabella is Janet Jenkin s daughter. The MISSING poster called her Lisa
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment

                        If I'm missing anything, it's any mention by a court official (not a plaintiff) that Isabella is Janet Jenkin's daughter. The MISSING poster called her Lisa Miller's daughter.


                        Mr. Buck ( I guess Yahoo isn't adding my signature automatically on this forum) 



                        ---In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, <maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Buck,

                        You are welcome, but I think you are missing the point of the "daughter" controversy.

                        As a matter of law, as was explained in the references I gave you, Isabella is Janet's daughter.

                        Isabella was born at a time and into a union recognized under the law and enjoying certain legal benefits.

                        One of the benefits, or at least consequences, is that a child born into such a union is considered the child of the persons in the union;  a rebuttable presumption.

                        I understand some don't like it for one reason or another, but when someone refers to Isabella as Janet's daughter, that's what it means as a matter of law; Isabella is Janet's daughter as a matter of law and as is being recognized by the Court(s) who have addressed the issue.

                        Buck, your definition, for whatever reason, fails to acknowledge the legal definition applicable to the case.

                        Sincerely,
                        Robert Baty

                         


                        To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                        From: bucksburg@...
                        Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:45:40 -0700
                        Subject: RE: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                         

                        Thanks for that, Robert.


                        I see that Janet Jenkins has asserted that Isabella is her daughter in the wording of a civil suit she has filed against a long list of defendants, who are slowly being removed from the case by judge Sessions. 


                        The various defending attorneys clearly missed the chance to challenge this assertion, and I hope that at least one of them who is monitoring this site will do something about it.


                        In order to be someone's daughter, either she has to be your female ancestor in the first generation, or have given birth to you, or have legally adopted you.


                        Short of that, I guess you could call Isabella Janet's 'foster daughter' as long as that modifier is always attached.





                        ---In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, <maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Janet & Isabella - Virginia 2007







                        To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                        From: rlbaty@...
                        Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:22:07 -0400
                        Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                         

                        Buck,

                        Here's another excerpt from the recently filed ORDER in the Janet Jenkins case:

                        --------------------------------------------

                        UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                        FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                        Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                        JANET JENKINS,
                        for herself and as next friend of
                        ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                        a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                        Plaintiffs,

                        v. 

                        KENNETH L. MILLER,
                        LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                        TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                        ANDREW YODER, individually
                        and as an agent for
                        CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                        CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                        RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                        PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                        and as an agent for
                        RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                        VICTORIA HYDEN,
                        f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                        individually and as an agent for both
                        RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                        LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                        and its related ministry
                        THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                        LINDA M. WALL, individually
                        and as agent for
                        THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                        and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                        Defendants.

                        OPINION AND ORDER

                        (excerpts)

                        Background

                        I.

                        The Litigation between Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins

                        Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter of Defendant Lisa
                        Miller and Janet Jenkins.

                        She is the biological child of Lisa Miller, born in April 2002
                        while the two women were joined in a civil union, which
                        they obtained in Vermont in 2000.

                        Dated at Burlington,
                        in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                        /s/ William K. Sessions III
                        William K. Sessions III
                        United States District Court Judge

                        ------------------------------------------------
                        ------------------------------------------------



                        To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                        From: rlbaty@...
                        Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:02:44 -0400
                        Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                         

                        Buck,

                        Would you give up your quibble based on the following which I just happened to notice appears in the opening paragraph of the latest filing in the Janet Jenkins case:

                        ------------------------------------------

                        UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                        FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT

                        Case No. 2:12-cv-184

                        JANET JENKINS,
                        for herself and as next friend of
                        ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                        a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                        Plaintiffs,

                        v. 

                        KENNETH L. MILLER,
                        LISA ANN MILLER f/k/a LISA MILLER-JENKINS,
                        TIMOTHY D. MILLER,
                        ANDREW YODER, individually
                        and as an agent for
                        CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                        CHRISTIAN AID MINISTRIES, INC.,
                        RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                        PHILIP ZODHIATES, individually
                        and as an agent for
                        RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC.,
                        VICTORIA HYDEN,
                        f/k/a VICTORIA ZODHIATES,
                        individually and as an agent for both
                        RESPONSE UNLIMITED, INC., and
                        LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, INC.
                        and its related ministry
                        THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                        LINDA M. WALL, individually
                        and as agent for
                        THOMAS ROAD BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.,
                        and DOUGLAS WRIGHT,

                        Defendants.

                        OPINION AND ORDER

                        (excerpts)

                        Plaintiff Janet Jenkins,

                        for herself and as next friend of
                        her daughter Isabella Miller-Jenkins,

                        has brought suit against several individuals
                        and organizations, alleging that they
                        kidnapped and conspired to kidnap Isabella.

                        (snip 77 pages)

                        Dated at Burlington,
                        in the District of Vermont, this 24th day of October, 2013.

                        /s/ William K. Sessions III
                        William K. Sessions III
                        United States District Court Judge

                        ------------------------------------------------
                        ------------------------------------------------


                        To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                        From: rlbaty@...
                        Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:19:21 -0400
                        Subject: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                         

                        Buck, you write, in part:

                        - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
                        - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter."

                        Is that so?

                        It might be interesting to check and see what some of the Courts' observations have said about that.

                        I don't think you can prove that universal negative claim, Buck, but you can try while I am waiting for the time to browse and see if I can show you up on that!

                        In any case, under the law, I think "daughter" is an appropriate label to assign as to the relationship between Isabella and Janet.

                        Sincerely,
                        Robert Baty


                        To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                        From: bucksburg@...
                        Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:13:33 -0700
                        Subject: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                         

                         Isabella Miller has never been defined in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter. She is a girl over whom Janet Jenkins has the sole right to legal custody, in a manner indistinguishable from the relationship between a master and her slave.


                        Mr. Buck



                        ---In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <rlbaty@...> wrote:

                        https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg

                        https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1098516_10201710152945563_766585831_n.jpg


                        To: maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com
                        From: rlbaty@...
                        Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:24:02 -0400
                        Subject: [M & B] Lisa Miller Case Update

                         

                        ---

                        You may recall that Kenneth Miller was convicted earlier this year for his part in the kidnapping of Janet Jenkins' daughter.

                        He appealed his conviction and is free pending appeal after spending a week in jail for contempt for failing to answer questions, with immunity from further prosecution, regarding the part others played in the successful scheme.  I personally think he should have been kept in jail pending his testimony, but the judge accepted Miller's claim that he was not going to talk and so turned him loose.

                        Last summer Kenneth filed his brief and earlier this month (October 2013) the Government responded by filing its brief.

                        Both the Government and Kenneth Miller have requested that the Court entertain oral arguments.  I don't think a date has been set for oral arguments.

                        Sincerely,
                        Robert Baty






                      • Robert Baty
                        Buck, Here s my claim in refutation to your refusal to acknowledge the facts of the matter: Judge William K Sessions III wrote in part: - Plaintiff Janet
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Buck,

                          Here's my claim in refutation to your refusal to acknowledge the facts of the matter:

                          Judge William K Sessions III wrote in part:

                          - Plaintiff Janet Jenkins,
                          -
                          - for herself and as next friend of
                          - her daughter Isabella Miller-Jenkins...
                          -
                          - Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter
                          - of Defendant Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins.
                          -
                          - She is the biological child of Lisa Miller,
                          - born in April 2002  while the two women
                          - were joined in a civil union, which  they
                          - obtained in Vermont in 2000.
                          -
                          - Dated at Burlington,
                          - in the District of Vermont,
                          - this 24th day of October, 2013.

                          I propose, Buck, that your claim that

                          - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
                          - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter"

                          is simply false.

                          Isabella is Janet's daughter as matter of law.

                          Deny it if you will, Buck.

                          You would be better off to just express your disagreement with the law instead of trying to deny the effect of the law.

                          Sincerely,
                          Robert Baty

                          P.S. It might be worth noticing, Buck, that Janet's civil suit is styled, in part, as:

                          - JANET JENKINS,
                          - for herself and as next friend of
                          - ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                          - a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                          That doesn't say daughter.  It's Judge Sessions who acknowledged that relationship and explained why it held as a matter of law.

                          ------------------------------------
                          ------------------------------------


                          To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                          From: bucksburg@...
                          Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 10:13:35 -0700
                          Subject: RE: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                           

                          If I'm missing anything, it's any mention by a court official (not a plaintiff) that Isabella is Janet Jenkin's daughter. The MISSING poster called her Lisa Miller's daughter.


                          Mr. Buck ( I guess Yahoo isn't adding my signature automatically on this forum) 



                          ---In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, <maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Buck,

                          You are welcome, but I think you are missing the point of the "daughter" controversy.

                          As a matter of law, as was explained in the references I gave you, Isabella is Janet's daughter.

                          Isabella was born at a time and into a union recognized under the law and enjoying certain legal benefits.

                          One of the benefits, or at least consequences, is that a child born into such a union is considered the child of the persons in the union;  a rebuttable presumption.

                          I understand some don't like it for one reason or another, but when someone refers to Isabella as Janet's daughter, that's what it means as a matter of law; Isabella is Janet's daughter as a matter of law and as is being recognized by the Court(s) who have addressed the issue.

                          Buck, your definition, for whatever reason, fails to acknowledge the legal definition applicable to the case.

                          Sincerely,
                          Robert Baty

                        • bucksburg
                          Okay, Robert, you ve made your case, and I accept your conclusion. A strange new legal definition of daughter has emerged, and it is notably not connected
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Okay, Robert, you've made your case, and I accept your conclusion. A strange new legal definition of 'daughter' has emerged, and it is notably not connected with the word 'mother,' but 'parent.'  


                            As I pointed out earlier, the application for a Social Security Number requires the applicant to list his 'mother' and also allows the listing of the applicant's 'other parent.'


                            Two or more women can share the same 'daughter,' but only one at a time can be her 'mother.'


                            Mr. Buck


                            3.             In November 2003, Lisa filed a pro se complaint in the Vermont family court to dissolve the parties' civil union.  The family court issued a temporary order on June 17, 2004, awarding Lisa temporary legal and physical responsibility for IMJ.  The court also set a visitation schedule for Janet, in addition to mandating daily telephone contact between Janet and IMJ.  Lisa, however, allowed Janet parent-child contact only once in June 2004 and did not allow Janet to have any telephone contact with IMJ.  On September 2, 2004, the Vermont family court found Lisa in contempt for willful refusal to comply with the court's June 2004 visitation order.   -Judge Cohen's 2010 decision



                            ---In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, <maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Buck,

                            Here's my claim in refutation to your refusal to acknowledge the facts of the matter:

                            Judge William K Sessions III wrote in part:

                            - Plaintiff Janet Jenkins,
                            -
                            - for herself and as next friend of
                            - her daughter Isabella Miller-Jenkins...
                            -
                            - Isabella Miller-Jenkins is the daughter
                            - of Defendant Lisa Miller and Janet Jenkins.
                            -
                            - She is the biological child of Lisa Miller,
                            - born in April 2002  while the two women
                            - were joined in a civil union, which  they
                            - obtained in Vermont in 2000.
                            -
                            - Dated at Burlington,
                            - in the District of Vermont,
                            - this 24th day of October, 2013.

                            I propose, Buck, that your claim that

                            - "Isabella Miller has never been defined
                            - in any court as Janet Jenkins' daughter"

                            is simply false.

                            Isabella is Janet's daughter as matter of law.

                            Deny it if you will, Buck.

                            You would be better off to just express your disagreement with the law instead of trying to deny the effect of the law.

                            Sincerely,
                            Robert Baty

                            P.S. It might be worth noticing, Buck, that Janet's civil suit is styled, in part, as:

                            - JANET JENKINS,
                            - for herself and as next friend of
                            - ISABELLA MILLER- JENKINS,
                            - a/k/a ISABELLA MILLER,

                            That doesn't say daughter.  It's Judge Sessions who acknowledged that relationship and explained why it held as a matter of law.

                            ------------------------------------
                            ------------------------------------


                            To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                            From: bucksburg@...
                            Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 10:13:35 -0700
                            Subject: RE: RE: [M & B] RE: Lisa Miller Case Update

                             

                            If I'm missing anything, it's any mention by a court official (not a plaintiff) that Isabella is Janet Jenkin's daughter. The MISSING poster called her Lisa Miller's daughter.


                            Mr. Buck ( I guess Yahoo isn't adding my signature automatically on this forum) 



                            ---In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, <maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Buck,

                            You are welcome, but I think you are missing the point of the "daughter" controversy.

                            As a matter of law, as was explained in the references I gave you, Isabella is Janet's daughter.

                            Isabella was born at a time and into a union recognized under the law and enjoying certain legal benefits.

                            One of the benefits, or at least consequences, is that a child born into such a union is considered the child of the persons in the union;  a rebuttable presumption.

                            I understand some don't like it for one reason or another, but when someone refers to Isabella as Janet's daughter, that's what it means as a matter of law; Isabella is Janet's daughter as a matter of law and as is being recognized by the Court(s) who have addressed the issue.

                            Buck, your definition, for whatever reason, fails to acknowledge the legal definition applicable to the case.

                            Sincerely,
                            Robert Baty

                          • HumanCarol
                            ... So? What s strange about it? ... I expect over a few years time we will see changes in applications such as the SS application
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 1, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment

                              -In maury_and_baty@yahoogroups.com, <bucksburg@...> wrote:


                              >Okay, Robert, you've made your case, and I accept your conclusion. A strange new legal definition of 'daughter' has emerged, and it is notably not connected with the word 'mother,' but 'parent.'  >


                              So? 


                              What's strange about it?


                              >As I pointed out earlier, the application for a Social Security Number requires the applicant to list his 'mother' and also allows the listing of the applicant's 'other parent.'>


                              I expect over a few years time we will see changes in applications such as the SS application 

                              http://www.ssa.gov/online/ss-5.pdf

                              to reflect the changes in marriage/civil-union laws. 


                              Two or more women can share the same 'daughter,' but only one at a time can be her 'mother.'>


                              Who are you to tell children in same-sex-union families what they may call their parents?


                              Slowly but surely, other states not already keeping pace with the times will follow Nevada.

                              http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/a_child_can_have_two_legal_mothers_nevada_supreme_court_says


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