Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Justin Wishart on "minds", peanut brittle & Presuppositionalism!

Expand Messages
  • rlbaty50
    ... CHALLENGE FOR JUSTIN WISHART PHASE II In phase one, after considerable evasion, Justin Wishart indicated that one of the fundamentals of his brand of
    Message 1 of 32 , Jul 17, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      ---

      CHALLENGE FOR JUSTIN WISHART
      PHASE II

      In phase one, after considerable evasion, Justin Wishart indicated that one of the fundamentals of his brand of Presuppositionalism may be "clearly stated" as:

      - "The Bible is presupposed
      - as true."
      -
      -- Justin Wishart: Affirmed

      We also have this recently from Justin:

      - From: Justin Wishart
      - Date: Wednesday, July 17, 2013
      - Time: About 12:05 PM MT
      -
      - I told you I'm a Clarkian,
      - which makes my presuppositionalism
      - falsifiable.

      Well, let's see how that may or may not be the case as applied to Justin Wishart's fundamental, foundational "axiom" that the Bible is true.

      Justin,

      Can you explain how your presuppositional claim that the Bible is true can be falsifiable?

      Please don't confuse that issue with the issue involving the falsifiability of interpretations of the Bible.

      For example, Justin, if some things are more than a few thousand years old, would you conclude that the Bible is wrong or that the Presuppositional interpretation of the Bible is wrong?

      -------------------------------
      -------------------------------
    • rlbaty50
      Here are some references for those interested in what Gordon Clark, one sort of Presuppositional champion, had to do with these things: (1) Gordon Clark
      Message 32 of 32 , Jul 19, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Here are some references for those interested in what Gordon Clark, one sort of Presuppositional champion, had to do with these things:

        (1)

        Gordon Clark (Presuppositionalism)
        v.
        David Hoover (Evidentialism)

        Link to Audio:

        http://www.trinitylectures.org/MP3/The_Clark-Hoover_Debate.mp3

        (2)

        Here's some of what Gordon Clark had to say about what has been discussed here in recent days (I might have more to say later about one or more of the statements):

        Gordon Clark Lecture:

        http://www.trinitylectures.org/MP3/Defense_of_Christian_Presup_Clark.mp3

        (excerpts)

        01:16:00ff

        Axioms are not demonstrable.

        You do not argue for them,
        you argue from them.

        Every system must have its axioms.

        Christianity cannot be faulted for
        insisting on certain axioms.

        It is my opinion that we must accept
        the truth of the teaching of the Bible
        as the set of axioms from which we
        deduce everything else.

        It's impossible to demonstrate the
        inerrancy of scripture. It must be an
        axiom; you accept it and begin there.

        All the teaching of the Bible is true;
        thousands of truths could be deduced
        therefrom.

        I am asking that we use logical deductions
        from the teaching of Scripture.

        Every system of philosophy must begin
        with something that cannot be demonstrated.

        Therefore, Christianity cannot be faulted
        for picking certain axioms.

        You cannot demonstrate or prove axioms,
        but you can prove things by using the axioms.

        You have no reason to pick one axiom
        rather than another.

        All your theorems have to come from
        the axioms.

        Why do you use the Bible to prove
        anything at all?

        Unless you assume something,
        you will never get anything.

        No evangelist can cause a person to
        change his mind or assent to the truth
        of Scripture.

        Faith is a gift of God.

        The system of theology must be axiomized
        and depend on presuppositions from which
        you get your theorems.

        The Holy Spirit does various things.
        He has a number of functions.

        We must indicate what the Holy Spirit does.

        The Holy Spirit would cause us to believe
        certain things.

        The Holy Spirit might not cause us to believe
        in axiomatization, at least not right away.

        Many ordinary Christians don't believe very
        much.

        If you are going to have an apologetic,
        then you have to be a little technical.

        Now, you depend on the Spirit,
        but you have to be technical.

        This is my way of trying to do it.

        ------------------------------------------
        ------------------------------------------
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.