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Why Dustin Segers Ran!

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  • rlbaty50
    WHY DUSTIN SEGERS RAN! One of Dustin Segers apologetics classes was posted to YouTube in March 2013. I believe it has a lot to say as to the real reason why
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 25, 2013
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      WHY DUSTIN SEGERS RAN!

      One of Dustin Segers' apologetics classes was posted to YouTube in March 2013.

      I believe it has a lot to say as to the real reason why Dustin Segers would not, when I asked yesterday, affirm and defend Sye Ten Bruggencate's claim that,

      - "The proof God exists is
      - that without Him you could
      - not know anything, prove
      - anything, or expect the
      - sun to rise in the morning."

      Dustin Segers' Personal Testimony
      & Teaching on Apologetics

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2CSkhcvhbc (video)
      https://www.facebook.com/dustin.segers1 (Dustin)

      Posted March 20, 2013
      By Michael Clark

      (excerpts)

      00:06:12

      Most apologetics methods and practices are unbiblical and are downright deceptive.

      00:06:30

      Most apologetics instruction is unintelligible and impossible for the average believer to comprehend.

      00:07:20

      Some apologetic methods are gimmicky and tacky and unbiblical.

      00:14:20

      Three main types of apologetics practiced today.

      Evidentialism
      Classicalism
      Presuppositionalism

      00:14:50

      Evidentialism

      I am a 6-day young-earth creationist unashamedly.

      00:17:55

      Classicalism

      The use of logical and philosophical proofs.

      00:22:25

      Presuppositionalism

      Overall, this method is the best out of the three.

      But in some of its forms it is still wanting.

      The idea here is unless you first assume the biblical God, you can't logically talk about anything, do anything, or know anything.

      00:32:30

      The basic argument of Presuppositionalism is this:

      We prove the existence of God by the impossibility of the contrary.

      In other words, Christianity is true because all the contrary worldviews are mutually exclusive and contradictory and refute themselves.

      How do you know that is so?

      Greg Bahnsen answered: "Because the Word of God says so"!

      You want certainty?
      You want absolute proof God exists?

      You must start with the Word of God!

      00:39:30

      Almost every Presuppositionalist is a confessional Calvinist.

      00:41:25

      The nature of the real problem is depravity.

      00:57:55

      The 3 common methods are self-defeating.
      The 3 methods are not biblical.

      Presuppositionalism can be tweaked to be a biblical method.

      You'll never find any of the apostles/prophets using any of these methods in the Bible.

      What was their system?

      "Thus sayeth the Lord!"
      "It is written!"

      The scriptures are all we really need.

      All we really need is the Bible and prayer.

      01:12:30

      God tells me you know he exists.
      I am not obligated to prove to you that He exists.

      The debate is this:

      Is the knowledge of God and His existence immediate or mediate?

      It's not mediated to us by means; it's immediate.

      It's within us.

      It's absolute, immediate knowledge.

      You gotta choice there.

      You gonna believe God or what the person tells you?

      --------------------------------
      --------------------------------
    • rlbaty50
      ... I ve since found that Dustin has a text of his lesson on the Internet at the following link if you don t like the video version:
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 25, 2013
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        I've since found that Dustin has a text of his lesson on the Internet at the following link if you don't like the video version:

        http://ebookbrowse.com/nct-apologetics-pdf-d204825729

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      • rlbaty50
        ... More on the Dustin Segers affair! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuO0me-pCwc&lc=OcVS5tI4IwdI5FAaV3N7qe181D-sOXplZkG5Z6N1tNU (venue)
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 26, 2013
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          More on the Dustin Segers affair!

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuO0me-pCwc&lc=OcVS5tI4IwdI5FAaV3N7qe181D-sOXplZkG5Z6N1tNU (venue)

          https://www.facebook.com/dustin.segers1 (Dustin)

          (1) A reminder

          From: Robert Baty
          Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2013
          Time: About 9:00 PM MT

          After seeing Dustin Segers on Michael W. Jones Internet
          TV show Sunday, I tried to get Dustin to affirm his buddy
          Sye Ten Bruggencate's claim that "the proof God exists is
          that without Him you could not know anything".

          Dustin would not come out to me to negotiate how we might
          produce a discussion of the merits, or lack thereof, of
          that presuppositional claim.

          I have preserved some of that history in various venues. Here's one:

          h t t p s :// w ww . facebook .com/ Bruggencate v Baty

          (2) Dustin returns and pops off with:

          From: Dustin Segers
          Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013
          Time: About 6:20 PM MT

          There you go stalking again sir.

          (3) My response to Dustin's pop-off:

          From: Robert Baty
          Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013
          Time: About 6:35 PM MT

          Meanwhile, I wait to see if Dustin Segers will explicitly
          affirm or deny his buddy Sye Ten Bruggencate's claim that:

          - "the proof God exists is that without Him you could NOT
          - know anything,
          - prove anything, or
          - expect the sun to rise."
          -
          -- Sye: Affirm
          -- Robert: Deny
          -- Dustin: ????

          If Dustin wants to affirm that as Sye does, and is willing
          to come out and come clean, we can negotiate the logistical
          details necessary to produce a productive exchange on that
          matter.

          (4) Dustin comes back again with:

          From: Dustin Segers
          Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013
          Time: About 6:40 PM MT

          Robert,

          Why are you asking me this when your beef is with Sye?

          (5) I my response to Dustin:

          From: Robert Baty
          Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013
          Time: About 6:45 PM MT

          Dustin, you are a public face for Presuppositionalism and are associated with Sye Ten Bruggencate.

          It's quite reasonable to ask for an explicit statement from you regarding whether you actually endorse his "proof God exists" claim.

          What sayeth ye, Dustin Segers:

          - "the proof God exists is that without Him you could NOT
          - know anything,
          - prove anything, or
          - expect the sun to rise."
          -
          -- Sye: Affirm
          -- Robert: Deny
          -- Dustin: ????

          (6) Dustin can't shut up and adds:

          From: Dustin Segers
          Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013
          Time: About 6:47 PM MT

          You have stalked me on Facebook, stalked me on
          Justin Edwards' YouTube page, and now here.

          Here's my answer:

          I will not have a debate with you as I don't entertain
          stalkers.

          You are welcome to continue to misrepresent my rejection
          of a debate with you as cowardice on my part; but my debate
          record proves the opposite.

          I have debated publicly, on the radio, on webcasts, and
          on vodcasts.

          I have no fear of man, but I refuse to entertain stalkers.

          (7) And my response to that:

          From: Robert Baty
          Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013
          Time: About 6:50 PM MT

          Dustin,

          Everyone can draw their own conclusions as to why, in my
          opinion, you will not explicitly address your disagreement
          with Sye Ten Bruggencate regarding that "proof God exists"
          claim.

          - "The proof God exists is that without Him you could NOT
          - know anything,
          - prove anything, or
          - expect the sun to rise."
          -
          -- Sye: Affirm
          -- Robert: Deny
          -- Dustin: ????

          When you get ready to put up, Dustin, let me know and we
          can work on the details to discuss your problems further.

          --------------------------
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        • rlbaty50
          ... On the New Covenant Group video page, Dustin has been chattering about at the same time he tried to further challenge me on the EPIC page:
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 26, 2013
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            On the New Covenant Group video page, Dustin has been chattering about at the same time he tried to further challenge me on the EPIC page:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB44ZwTL198

            - From: Dustin Segers
            - Reply to: William
            - Date: Wednesday, June 26, 2013
            - Time: About 6:30 PM MT
            -
            - If God exists,
            - logic is consistent with
            - his mind since logic is a
            - description of a way God
            - thinks.

            Notice how that is a further indication, along with his current side-kick Sean Boatman's similar statement on the issue, that Dustin does not agree with Sye Ten Bruggencate's claim that:

            - "the proof God exists is
            - that without Him there
            - would be no logic."

            I certainly don't want to misrepresent any wannabe Presuppositionalist and so it is important that Dustin and Sean be explicit in either endorsing or denying the claim from Sye upon which Sye is building his career.

            I've been asking, but they have been rather conspicuous in refusing to "give an answer".

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

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