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Re: Fred Butler v. Presupp 101 Critical Thinking Exercise!

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  • rlbaty50
    ... While waiting for my earlier reply to Fred to be approved for posting to his website, I happened to notice this: Fred Butler himself implicitly explains
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 21, 2013
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      While waiting for my earlier reply to Fred to be approved for posting to his website, I happened to notice this:

      Fred Butler himself implicitly explains why Sye Ten Bruggencate's "proof God exists" claim fails to provide any "proof God exists".

      It seems Fred actually agrees with me on that!

      http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/covenant-apologetics-proposal/

      - From: Fred Butler
      - Date: Friday, June 21, 2013
      -
      - Covenant Apologetics Proposal
      -
      - (excerpts)
      -
      - I (Fred Butler) believe the
      - word "presuppositionalism" is
      - an appropriate descriptor for
      - the methodology.
      -
      - When we engage unbelievers, we
      - are engaging the presuppositions
      - of their worldview...
      -
      - (W)e stand our ground on the
      - presuppositions that we are
      - committed, Bible-believing
      - Christians.
      -
      - We don't begin by making a
      - probable case for the existence
      - of God; we begin by what we know
      - is true according to God's word:
      - all men know God exists and are
      - in rebellion against Him.

      Yep, I would say that is a pretty strong implication that Fred Butler knows I am right in calling out Sye Ten Bruggencate to repent and to quit trying to make a career out of making a "proof God exists" claim that provides NO "proof God exists".

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty

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    • rlbaty50
      ... hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/critical-thinkin-101-with-robert-baty/ (venue) (3) From: Fred Butler Date: Friday, June 21, 2013 Time: 7:28 PM MT
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 21, 2013
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        hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/critical-thinkin-101-with-robert-baty/ (venue)

        (3)

        From: Fred Butler
        Date: Friday, June 21, 2013
        Time: 7:28 PM MT

        You're wrong.

        There is a third option just like I stated: Robert Baty doesn't understand presuppositionalism.

        Now you may want to say the exercise is not about you, but it most certainly is, particularly your muddled Church of Christ/Pelagian view of what it is Sye is arguing.

        Now here I am asking again for at least the third time: If I misrepresented you, then show those misrepresentations.

        While you are at it, answer those questions I pose to you.

        I am not gonna choose venues or negotiate.

        If you can't answer me here in the comments of my blog, then I have no other choice but to conclude you are a phony.

        (4)

        From: Robert Baty
        Date: Friday, June 21, 2013
        Time: 7:45 PM MT

        Fred,

        We all will draw our own conclusions and agreement by all is not anticipated.

        I certainly understand yours quite well, Fred; now having dealt with such as you for several weeks now.

        Your problem is not my lack of understanding of Presuppositionalism but rather is the extent to which I do understand Presuppositionalism.

        You demonstrated a considerable level of interest in my Exercise, Fred, though you seemed determined to make false and/or misleading claims about it and me.

        Shame on you!

        The opening query is simple enough and I will not claim you do not understand it and the two possible answers; not three.

        You, Fred, simply refuse to give what you know is your (a) or (b) answer.

        I get that much, Fred!

        You, Fred, are just a reluctant, stiff-necked student who prefers to run to and fro instead of deal openly and honestly with your problems.

        I get that you won't negotiate, though that is what is required if you wish to requite my love and cooperate in producing a proper exchange regarding the issue before us: Sye Ten Bruggencate's "proof God exists" claim.

        Fred, if you want to claim you lack comprehension as to the first inquiry and the propriety of having only 2 possible answers, you can try to explain your problem with that and I will attempt to help you get over it so you can answer properly and we can continue the Exercise which you have already shown you have a great interest in.

        For ready reference, here's the inquiry for your (a) or (b) response that will allow us to proceed:

        - If it is possible in this world to
        - know something without such
        - knowledge being founded upon
        - the existence of God, would you
        - conclude that;
        -
        – (a) the Bible is wrong,
        -
        - or
        -
        – (b) the Sye Ten Bruggencate
        – interpretation of the Bible
        – is wrong?

        If you get through the Exercise successfully, Fred, we will have plenty of time to consider your other problems as they might have some relevance and we have the time and interest to pursue such additional secondary and tertiary matters.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty

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      • rlbaty50
        ... UPDATE! http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/critical-thinkin-101-with-robert-baty/ (venue) The question I left for Fred Butler (aka FivePointer )
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 22, 2013
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          UPDATE!

          http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/critical-thinkin-101-with-robert-baty/ (venue)

          The question I left for Fred Butler (aka "FivePointer") to answer, if he wanted to pursue our discussion and attempt to successfully complete my Exercise in which he had shown so much interest, is

          - If it is possible in this world to
          - know something without such
          - knowledge being founded upon
          - the existence of God, would you
          - conclude that;
          -
          -– (a) the Bible is wrong,
          -
          - or
          -
          –- (b) the Sye Ten Bruggencate
          –- interpretation of the Bible
          –- is wrong?

          While Fred returned to the above venue and posted an unrelated note a few hours ago, Fred did not respond to my question.

          Time will tell if he has abandoned his effort to deal with my Exercise in which he had shown so much interest.

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