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Another Day, Another Venue to Invite Presuppositionalists!

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  • rlbaty50
    Christians Answering Atheists 2 https://www.facebook.com/groups/528766180509430/ (1) From: Robert Baty Date: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 Time: About 9:25 AM MT My
    Message 1 of 5 , May 8, 2013
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      Christians Answering Atheists 2
      https://www.facebook.com/groups/528766180509430/

      (1)

      From: Robert Baty
      Date: Wednesday, May 8, 2013
      Time: About 9:25 AM MT

      My Challenge to the Presuppositionalism
      of Sye Ten Bruggencate

      I'm new here, and thought to join after noticing that Sean Boatman was promoting Presuppositionalism here. I've got experience with Sean and his antics regarding such things.

      I ran across Sye Ten Bruggencate and his Presuppositionalism a few weeks ago via an encounter on one of Eric Hovind's FaceBook pages.

      My experience in putting Presuppositionalists to flight is archived at my YAHOO! discussion list at:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/

      I don't particularly like FaceBook, but I have not had much success in getting FaceBook users to come out and come around my place. Sye has done a pretty good job at getting Presuppositionalists to block me or otherwise "run" from my invitations.

      Sye's Presuppositional magnum opus was released last week and, apparently, is enjoying considerable commercial success even while my challenge goes unanswered and my allegation unrebutted.

      Sye will not come out.
      Sye's sympathizers will not come out.

      Yet, I continue to extend the invitation.

      There are numerous, interesting angles to Sye's promotion of and the apparent resurgence of interest in Presuppositionalism. I have tried to find a fundamental point of interest within my skill level and which provides a basis for engaging the popular public debate over the merits of what Sye is promoting.

      Following is the proposition that I propose should be set forth for discussion, with the logistical details necessary to produce the proposed discussion to be negotiated should Sye or one who supports his claim show up to engage the negotiations in good faith with the purpose of producing the proposed discussion of the merits of Sye's "proof of God" claim and my rebuttal thereto:

      PROPOSITION:

      - "The Proof that God exists
      - is that without Him you
      - couldn't prove anything."
      -
      - Affirm: Sye Ten Bruggencate
      - Deny: Robert Baty

      I will be posting this message at my YAHOO! place, which I consider to be a preferable venue for the proposed negotiations and the proposed discussion. Venue, however, like other matters, is subject to negotiation.

      To engage these important public issues at my place, membership is not required. You can simply address your email to the following address and follow along via the public archives at the previously noted website:

      Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

      To date, the Presuppositionalists have defaulted the issue by failing to openly, honestly engage in the negotiations to produce the proposed test of Sye Ten Bruggencate's (and other such Presuppositionalists') "proof of God" claim.

      The "evidence" to date suggests that Presuppositionalists like Sye Ten Bruggencate realize that their "proof of God" claim provides NO "proof of God".

      I think this point is fairly simple. Whatever Presuppositionalism might provide, it does NOT provide a "proof of God" and Sye and others should give up that claim.

      As far as my efforts are concerned, they have given up the "proof of God" claim by default. However, I am still available to engage in the effort to allow them to affirm and support their "proof of God" claim and deal with my rebuttal thereto.

      I have confronted Sye and a dozen or so other of his sort. None have yet appeared to negotiate, in good faith, for the proposed exchange.

      Thanks for your time and interest.

      The rule above indicates that posters are limited to 2 a day. I guess I get one more today if it becomes necessary. Otherwise, those interested can take up the discussion via the Maury_and_Baty YAHOO! discussion list.

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      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/
    • rlbaty50
      The Open Invitation to Presuppositionalists cc: https://www.facebook.com/CalvinistMemes cc: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/ cc:
      Message 2 of 5 , May 8, 2013
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        The Open Invitation to Presuppositionalists

        cc: https://www.facebook.com/CalvinistMemes
        cc: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/
        cc: https://www.facebook.com/robert.baty.1
        cc: https://www.facebook.com/groups/atheistvstheistdebates/
        cc: https://www.facebook.com/groups/528766180509430/

        THE SYE TEN BRUGGENCATE
        PROPOSITION:

        - "The Proof that God exists
        - is that without Him you
        - couldn't prove anything."
        -
        -- Affirm: ????
        -- Deny: Robert Baty

        It is proposed that a one-on-one discussion of the merits of the above Presuppositional claim popularized by Sye Ten Bruggencate be produced as between Robert Baty and Sye Ten Bruggencate or some representative Presuppositionalist.

        It is proposed that the details necessary for the production of such an historic exchange are to be negotiated with negotiations to begin as soon as practical by agreement of the parties.

        It is proposed that responses to and/or acceptance of this invitation should be made via email addressed as follows:

        Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

        A record of these important, historic developments will be archived at the Maury_and_Baty YAHOO! website indicated above and, by agreement, elsewhere.

        Serious consideration of and replies to this invitation will be appreciated.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/
      • rlbaty50
        https://www.facebook.com/groups/atheistvstheistdebates/ (venue) https://www.facebook.com/Entomologist (Andrew) (2) From: Andrew Emerson Ryan Date: Wednesday,
        Message 3 of 5 , May 8, 2013
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          https://www.facebook.com/groups/atheistvstheistdebates/ (venue)
          https://www.facebook.com/Entomologist (Andrew)

          (2)

          From: Andrew Emerson Ryan
          Date: Wednesday, May 8, 2013
          Time: About 3:30 PM MT

          Funny how you can never prove
          that statement....which means
          either your presupposition must
          be wrong or you don't have God...
          which is bad news for you either
          way!

          haha

          (3)

          From: Robert Baty
          Date: Wednesday, May 8, 2013
          Time: About 3:45 PM MT

          Andrew wrote, in part:

          - "You can never prove that
          - statement....which means
          - either your presupposition
          - must be wrong or you don't
          - have God......which is bad
          - news for you either way!"

          Andrew does not identify the "you"
          to whom he is addressing his comments,
          nor is he identifying "that statement"
          to which he refers.

          Perhaps if Andrew accepts the
          invitation and we successfully
          negotiate for the proposed discussion,
          we will get into his particular
          problems as implied by his cryptic
          quip above.

          I do note that Andrew does not
          explicitly affirm Sye's proposition
          nor has he accepted the invitation
          to produce a discussion of Sye's
          claim.

          It's not about me or my "worldview".
          It's about Sye's claim.

          - "The Proof that God exists
          - is that without Him you
          - couldn't prove anything."
          -
          -- Affirm: ????
          -- Deny: Robert Baty

          As noted earlier, the email address
          to send serious replies to and/or
          acceptance of the invitation is:

          Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

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        • rlbaty50
          https://www.facebook.com/groups/atheistvstheistdebates/ (venue) https://www.facebook.com/Entomologist (Andrew) (4) From: Andrew Emerson Ryan Date: Wednesday,
          Message 4 of 5 , May 8, 2013
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            https://www.facebook.com/groups/atheistvstheistdebates/ (venue)
            https://www.facebook.com/Entomologist (Andrew)

            (4)

            From: Andrew Emerson Ryan
            Date: Wednesday, May 8, 2013
            Time: About 3:55 PM MT

            - "The Proof that God exists
            - is that without Him you
            - couldn't prove anything."

            The Sye Ten Bruggencate position,
            right?

            But this statement itself cannot
            be proven.

            You cannot prove a negative, and
            that is what this statement suggests.

            If I say there is a teapot orbiting
            the sun across from the Earth, prove
            me wrong, then that is a logical
            fallacy because I can always keep
            saying "you haven't found it" when
            you investigate every inch of space
            on the other side of the sun.

            If you, or anyone else, claims that
            without God, you cannot prove anything,
            that would be the exact same concept,
            proving a negative.

            (5)

            From: Robert Baty
            Date: Wednesday, May 8, 2013
            Time: About 4:00 PM MT

            Andrew, thanks for that clarification
            regarding your approach to the issue.

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          • rlbaty50
            (6) Some here may recall my recent efforts to help Billy Jacobs, a member of the atheist vs theist debate group on FaceBook, with his Presuppositional problem.
            Message 5 of 5 , May 8, 2013
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              (6)

              Some here may recall my recent efforts to help Billy Jacobs,
              a member of the atheist vs theist debate group on FaceBook,
              with his Presuppositional problem.

              A few minutes ago I posted a copy of the Open Invitation to
              his FaceBook page.

              Almost as quickly, the posting disappeared and Billy
              UNfriended me.

              Billy's FaceBook address:

              https://www.facebook.com/billy.jacobs.75

              Can the Presuppositionalists not find even one honest broker
              amongst them who will help me produce the proposed discussion
              of Sye Ten Bruggencate's alleged "proof of God"?

              Giving them the opportunity provides an important, historic
              chapter for the book, and I may have more to say about that
              later.

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty
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