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The Wiki Website on Sye Ten Bruggencate!

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  • rlbaty50
    I think this has application, in parts, to the experience that Pi had earlier and I just had with Sye Ten Bruggencate. - RLBaty
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 24, 2013
      I think this has application, in parts, to the experience that Pi had earlier and I just had with Sye Ten Bruggencate. - RLBaty

      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sye_Ten_Bruggencate

      Sye Ten Bruggencate

      (excerpts)

      Sye Ten Bruggencate[1], a.k.a., Sye TenB., is an internet
      personality who subscribes to the Transcendental Argument
      for the existence of God (TAG), a branch of Christian
      apologetics.

      He is also a regular contributor to Eric Hovind's `Creation
      Today' web series of videos on anti-science, and biblical
      literalism; which disseminate provably false information
      about science, with the goal of indoctrinating children
      and vulnerable adults.

      Ten Bruggencate is internet famous for having a single idea
      which isn't nearly as interesting as he asserts it is.

      He repeats this over and over on the assumption it will
      eventually either make sense, or distract attention away
      from the fact that...doesn't in fact depend on the kind
      of absolutism he nevertheless insists it does.

      Ten Bruggencate is extremely sincere in his religious beliefs
      and enthusiastic about sharing them with others.

      The Achilles' heel of his argument is a coupling of his refusal
      to accept the syllogism at the heart of his own proposal with
      his eagerness to reassign this characteristic towards anyone
      who happens to point it out.

      Ten Bruggencate subscribes to an all-too-common view of
      atheism — that atheists are in willful denial of what
      they know to be true.

      His most notorious 15 megabytes of fame came when he issued
      a challenge to the illusionist, public speaker, outspoken
      atheist, executive producer of the TV series `Bullxxxx'
      and one half of the magic duo Penn & Teller, Penn Jillette
      to debate atheism versus Christianity.

      There is no evidence Mr. Jillette ever received an invitation
      to this debate, and the only mention of it ever having been
      issued may be found on pro-creationist websites to which ten Bruggencate is either directly or loosely affiliated.

      Ten Bruggencate's one idea comes in the form of a series of
      straw man arguments and creationist escape hatch questions,
      for which there is no "yes" or "no," "right" or "wrong"
      answer.

      These questions follow a cascading script of ever more
      irrational assumptions, so that no matter which answer to
      whichever question is given, it always leads to the same
      conclusion.

      In a podcast debate between ten Bruggencate, Eric Hovind
      and the hosts of the Fundamentally Flawed podcast, both
      Hovind and ten Bruggencate admitted on several occasions
      that presuppositional apologetics is circular in nature.

      Hence as a means of proving the existence of Yahweh it is
      a conclusion drawn from its own proposition and, therefore,
      any claim to have evidence for the existence of the Christian
      God is based upon a logical fallacy.

      Having realized they had inadvertently undone their own
      argument, the duo went on to assert that this is no
      different to the atheistic position on sense, reason and
      memory, since without a belief in God it is

      > "impossible to prove anything,"

      including Darwinian evolution by means of natural selection,
      the big bang, the age of the earth and myriad other scientific
      facts which have cast doubt over the alleged inerrancy of the
      Bible for hundreds of years.

      Ten Bruggencate denies that his methods are viciously circular (instead dubbing them 'virtuously circular'), despite that
      his own website demonstrates this perfectly.

      His understanding of what constitutes a valid criticism of
      circular reasoning, versus his denial that he uses exactly
      the same methods, has led some to speculate that he might
      be being deliberately provocative, in order to raise his
      profile as a public speaker, rather than because he
      genuinely believes the creator of the universe would only
      choose to communicate with people who already believe He
      exists, but remain invisible to those who can prove the
      origins of the Yahweh myth actually reside in bronze-age
      folklore.

      Sye uses a quote from Bahnsen, which explains it.

      Greg Bahnsen writes:

      > "In the Christian worldview, however, the Christian
      > is not engaged in viciously circular argument, a
      > circular argument on the same plane. We appeal above
      > and beyond the temporal realm. God's self-revelation
      > in nature and in Scripture informs us of the two-level
      > universe. God is not a fact like other facts in the
      > world. He is the Creator and Establisher of all else.
      > His existence alone makes the universe, and reason,
      > and human experience possible… … The "circularity" of
      > a transcendental argument is not at all the same as
      > the fallacious `circularity' of an argument in which
      > the conclusion is a restatement (in one form or
      > another) of one of its premises." ~ (Pushing the
      > Antithesis pg.) 124.

      For this reason ten Bruggencate personifies many aspect
      of Poe's Law.

      (T)he promised proof that God exists...reads,

      > "The Proof that God exists is that
      > without Him you couldn't prove anything".

      Ten Bruggencate's entire argument is ... predicated upon
      a semantic confusion between strict definitions of this
      kind in science, and the informal use of words such as
      theory and logic in common parlance.

      The mental acrobatics ten Bruggencate has to perform,
      when presented with the facts about his methods, very
      often result in a dark satire of religious groupthink
      and other forms of confirmation bias.

      That he is completely oblivious to the fact he demonstrates
      this every time he opens his mouth or sets pen to paper,
      has made him the unwitting poster-child of circular reasoning
      in various debating circles, albeit to an extremely limited
      clique.

      Because of this, it has been argued that to merely engage
      him on the intellectual level he incorrectly assumes he
      is capable of operating on, is to give the fish all the
      oxygen he needs to outgrow his small pond.

      Others have argued that it is better to examine his ideas
      and reveal their weaknesses, than allow him to continue
      operating under the delusion that they have merit.

      Ten Bruggencate therefore has a number of outstanding
      challenges open to him on many websites, blogs and
      discussion forums, which he rarely responds to directly,
      except to demand that other people account for his own misunderstanding.

      This, and his repeated refusals to engage with his many
      critics on any topic outside of the TAG, has seen him
      banned from a number of websites and blog comment threads.

      He frequently justifies his stonewall approach to debating
      any aspect of Christianity with non-Christians, by
      threatening them with the fires of hell for their failure
      to agree that to engage in such a conversation, would
      require that they first acknowledge the existence of
      Yahweh.

      Repeat, ad nauseum.

      Unfortunately for the moderators of sites which are then
      given no choice but to ban him for using threatening language,
      this merely plays into his underlying persecution complex,
      leading him to play the hurt feelings card with anyone only
      willing to listen to his side of the story—which seldom bears
      any resemblance to a true reflection of the facts.

      Having been caught playing this game on numerous occasions,
      this has given rise to a supreme irony; that very often one
      of the few things both Christians and atheists can agree
      upon, in on-line debates which ten Bruggencate has involved
      himself in, is that he alienates as many religious seeking
      common ground with non-believers, as he does atheists who
      demand nothing less than freedom of religious expression
      for their many interlocutors who, unlike Sye, do not make
      the case for Christianity by resorting to threats and fear
      theology.

      Therefore, albeit to an extremely limited audience of
      dominionist evangelicals, who are either willfully ignorant
      of, or genuinely oblivious to the kind of bait and switch
      debating techniques he employes, ten Bruggencate's exclusion
      from numerous debating forums is merely "yet more proof" that
      it is his ideas which atheists find uncomfortable, when in
      reality it is dealing with someone only interested in
      listening to themselves which proves the bigger challenge.

      See also

      Essay:Refutation of 'Proof That God Exists'
      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:Refutation_of_%27Proof_That_God_Exists%27


      External links

      Official website
      http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/about-me.php

      Gods that don't Exist: Sye Ten Bruggencate December 2, 2011
      https://godsthatdontexist.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/sye-ten-bruggencate/


      Footnotes

      1 Proof That God Exists: about me
      http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/about-me.php

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