Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Ray, since you are still out there...

Expand Messages
  • rlbaty50
    Ray, I have been wondering if you have any opinions to share regarding the Arias murder trial in the news these days; particularly with reference to the Mormon
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 8, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Ray,

      I have been wondering if you have any opinions to share regarding the Arias murder trial in the news these days; particularly with reference to the Mormon connections.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty
    • Ray Ausban
      Hey Robert,   I haven t followed the case closely, but all I can say is there are crazy and stupid people in every religion. Religion only has value when
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 8, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Hey Robert,
         
        I haven't followed the case closely, but all I can say is there are crazy and stupid people in every religion. Religion only has value when people make some effort to live it. The Mormon Church, like many other churches, consider murder a sin. But unlike some other churches, we don't think murder is so easily forgiven. In our view, to repent of a sin, restitution needs to be made. In the case of murder, a life has been taken and there is no restoring it. Any idea that LDS teachings encourage murder is nothing short of a falsehood.
         
        It appears, this Jodi woman is a lunatic who went 'Jack the Ripper' in a jealous rage. If she was living her supposed beliefs on a basic level, she wouldn't have done this.
         
        Ray

        From: rlbaty50 <rlbaty@...>
        To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 5:20 PM
        Subject: [M & B] Ray, since you are still out there...
         
        Ray,

        I have been wondering if you have any opinions to share regarding the Arias murder trial in the news these days; particularly with reference to the Mormon connections.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty

      • rlbaty50
        ... For myself, I find there might be some analogy made between the Arias case and the Winkler case of a few years ago; though admittedly there are also
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 8, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
          Ray Ausban wrote, in part:

          > I haven't followed the case closely, but all I can
          > say is there are crazy and stupid people in every
          > religion.

          For myself, I find there might be some analogy made between the Arias case and the Winkler case of a few years ago; though admittedly there are also significant differences.

          Mrs. Winkler killed her Church of Christ preacher husband with a shotgun and then took off with the kids. One big angle on the case was the sexual relationship between him and his wife.

          She's already out of jail and go the kids back, as I recall.

          Like you say, Ray, such incidents are not peculiar to just one religious group.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty
        • bucksburg
          ... Yeah, it s called blood atonement. It s no coincidence that when the death penalty was restored, the first person to suffer it was a Mormon murderer in
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 14, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, Ray Ausban wrote:
            >> I haven't followed the case closely, but all I can say is there are crazy and stupid people in every religion. Religion only has value when people make some effort to live it. The Mormon Church, like many other churches, consider murder a sin. But unlike some other churches, we don't think murder is so easily forgiven. In our view, to repent of a sin, restitution needs to be made. <<

            Yeah, it's called 'blood atonement.' It's no coincidence that when the death penalty was restored, the first person to suffer it was a Mormon murderer in Utah.

            http://www.australianhumanitiesreview.org/archive/Issue-March-1997/petch.html#1

            Daniel
          • bucksburg
            ... Another big angle to the case was his habit of threatening her with a loaded shotgun. She apparently didn t realize that when you do this, it s very
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 14, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "rlbaty50" wrote:
              >> Mrs. Winkler killed her Church of Christ preacher husband with a shotgun and then took off with the kids. One big angle on the case was the sexual relationship between him and his wife.<<

              Another big angle to the case was his habit of threatening her with a loaded shotgun. She apparently didn't realize that when you do this, it's very important not to put any pressure on the trigger, and tried it at home--with predictably fatal results.

              Daniel B.
            • Ray Ausban
              I have never been convinced of any personal blood atonement for killing some one as a type of restitution. The idea has floated around the LDS church, but
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 14, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                I have never been convinced of any personal 'blood atonement' for killing some one as a type of restitution. The idea has floated around the LDS church, but most murders kill more than one person. Is their death suppose to off set the deaths of many they killed? And what about the other horrid deeds associated with murder, such as torture or rape before death? And is personal 'blood atonement' any good when you are executed regardless of your choice?
                 
                The answer is "no" to all of these. Only Christ's atonement can offset murder. Of course, executing a clear case killer is fine with me. Such people don't deserve to live on this earth.

                From: bucksburg <bucksburg@...>
                To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:12 PM
                Subject: Re: [M & B] Ray, since you are still out there...
                 
                --- In mailto:Maury_and_Baty%40yahoogroups.com, Ray Ausban wrote:
                >> I haven't followed the case closely, but all I can say is there are crazy and stupid people in every religion. Religion only has value when people make some effort to live it. The Mormon Church, like many other churches, consider murder a sin. But unlike some other churches, we don't think murder is so easily forgiven. In our view, to repent of a sin, restitution needs to be made. <<

                Yeah, it's called 'blood atonement.' It's no coincidence that when the death penalty was restored, the first person to suffer it was a Mormon murderer in Utah.

                http://www.australianhumanitiesreview.org/archive/Issue-March-1997/petch.html#1

                Daniel

              • rlbaty50
                ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30921 ... HLN is just completing its presentation of analogies to Jodi Arias. One of the cases
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 21, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30921
                  "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@...> wrote, in part:

                  > For myself, I find there might be some analogy
                  > made between the Arias case and the Winkler
                  > case of a few years ago; though admittedly
                  > there are also significant differences.

                  HLN is just completing its presentation of analogies to Jodi Arias.

                  One of the cases high-lighted is that of Mary Winkler who shot her husband while he slept. She was released shortly after her conviction for "time served".

                  I guess you can say you heard it first here!

                  I think Jodi Arias is going to fare a lot worse than Mary Winkler. The Winkler analogy only works so far.

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty
                • rlbaty50
                  Here s a link to one extended account of the Winkler story: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/mary_winkler/1.html ...
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 21, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Here's a link to one extended account of the Winkler story:

                    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/mary_winkler/1.html

                    --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
                    "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@...> wrote:

                    --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30921
                    "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@> wrote, in part:

                    > For myself, I find there might be some analogy
                    > made between the Arias case and the Winkler
                    > case of a few years ago; though admittedly
                    > there are also significant differences.

                    HLN is just completing its presentation of analogies to Jodi Arias.

                    One of the cases high-lighted is that of Mary Winkler who shot her husband while he slept. She was released shortly after her conviction for "time served".

                    I guess you can say you heard it first here!

                    I think Jodi Arias is going to fare a lot worse than Mary Winkler. The Winkler analogy only works so far.

                    Sincerely,
                    Robert Baty
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.