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Re: Creation Science Hall of Fame - Maury Update!

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  • rlbaty50
    (2) From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...) To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...) CC: diatheke2@... CC: fwepboyd@... CC: joseph@... CC: seeevidence@... CC: temlakos@...
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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      (2)

      From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
      To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
      CC: diatheke2@...
      CC: fwepboyd@...
      CC: joseph@...
      CC: seeevidence@...
      CC: temlakos@...
      Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 21:14:26 -0500

      Subject: Re: Revisiting the simplest of matters
      wherein, I propose, you do err!

      Robert,

      You are not gracious about seeing your opponent clearly
      win an argument and I don't want to go back in my history
      of hundreds of emails to demonstrate such a insignificant
      issue that you have raised here.

      You are cutting hairs so thin that you are missing the
      overall picture.

      Because of your public writings about Maury to the Creation
      Science Hall of Fame, several others jumped on the
      "Baty Bandwagon" and accused us of many untruths about
      Maury's induction...which included these 4 major issues:

      > Maury was deficient in his belief of Christianity,

      > Maury did not believe in a supernatural creation
      > as written in Genesis,

      > Maury had no Bible-in-the-hand statue, and

      > Maury had no inscription on his tombstone at
      > the US Naval Academy referring to Psalm 8:8.

      The CSHF addressed them all one by one and have demonstrated
      the truth about Matthew Fontaine Maury.

      See the following page from the CSHF web site.
      It's all there for anyone to read the facts.

      http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

      If Matthew Fontaine Maury had not met our criteria of
      induction, I would have personally recommended removal....
      but he has and has done so with flying colors.

      Yes, Psalm 8 wasn't on the tombstone, but on the plaque instead....which we have indicated on the CSHF web site.

      But for you to make an issue of such a minor thing, only
      goes to prove my point that you are only interested in
      the "controversy" and not the over all truth.

      My advice to you is to "give up Maury".

      It's a loosing battle because he is and was a Christian
      Creationists and he fulfiled the criteria for induction
      into the Creation Science Hall of Fame.

      And as long as I am the Chairman of the Board of Directors
      for the Creation Science Hall of Fame, I will never
      recommend that Matthew Fontaine Maury be removed from his
      Induction into the CSHF because he deserves to be inducted.

      Nick Lally,
      Chairman, Board of Directors,
      Creation Science Hall of Fame

      (3)

      To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
      From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
      CC: diatheke2@...
      CC: fwepboyd@...
      CC: joseph@...
      CC: seeevidence@...;
      CC: temlakos@...
      Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 21:20:29 -0500

      Subject: RE: Revisiting the simplest of matters
      wherein, I propose, you do err!

      Nick,

      You are welcome to use Maury as you see fit, as I
      have previously admitted.

      However, your actions have consequences, and my
      criticisms, quite justified, are just an example.

      I have repeatedly advised you of the simplicity of
      my approach to things, and yet you contain to be
      confounded by it.

      Why should I expect you could handle the "weightier
      matters" any better.

      Are you determined, perhaps out of spite for me, to
      continue to falsely (I propose) claim that there is
      a Maury tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy and leave
      the impression on your website that that plaque you
      refer to there is at the U.S. Naval Academy as opposed
      to the Goshen Pass?

      And you still "refuse" to document the complaints you
      allege were filed regarding Maury.

      Do as you wish.

      Thanks for the further demonstration of what I am up
      against on even the most simplest of matters; though
      you are only the latest of my adversaries to so blunder
      over the simplest of matters.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty

      --------------------------------------
      --------------------------------------
    • rlbaty50
      (4) From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...) To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...) CC: diatheke2@... CC: fwepboyd@... CC: joseph@... CC: seeevidence@... CC: temlakos@...
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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        (4)

        From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
        To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
        CC: diatheke2@...
        CC: fwepboyd@...
        CC: joseph@...
        CC: seeevidence@...
        CC: temlakos@...
        Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 21:35:37 -0500

        Subject: Re: Revisiting the simplest of matters
        wherein, I propose, you do err!

        Robert,

        Look at this web site on Maury and see where this plaque
        is located.

        I believe its at the Navy Academy, but it could be at
        Goshen Pass.

        But does it really matter?

        The entire point was that you insisted that there wasn't
        any inscription about Psalm 8 in reference to Maury on
        his statue, plaque or his tombstone.

        See for your self.

        Click on this link and scroll down until you find Maury's
        plaque.

        I believe its at the Naval Academy.

        If its at the Pass, so be it.

        It doesn't make a difference because the main point was
        that Psalm 8 wasn't associate with Maury and it is.

        It's that simple.

        http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/Files/MatthewMaury.pdf

        Nick Lally,
        Chairman, Board of Directors,
        Creation Science Hall of Fame

        (5)

        To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
        From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
        CC: diatheke2@...
        CC: fwepboyd@...
        CC: joseph@...
        CC: seeevidence@...
        CC: temlakos@...
        Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 21:46:57 -0500

        Subject: RE: Revisiting the simplest of matters
        wherein, I propose, you do err!

        Nick,

        It's been your test, Nick, and of your board members.

        Matthew 7:1,2
        James 3:1

        You've been tried and found wanting.

        And now, I believe, you are falsely representing what
        my "entire point was"!

        Shame again, on the lot of you.

        It matters a great, great, great deal how you and people
        like you deal with the simplest of matters wherein us
        "tyros" have cause for concern about what you are up to.

        As I said, why should I venture to try and contend with
        you over "weightier matters".

        One of my points was that the tombstone was NOT at the
        Academy, and you indicated, in effect, that if Morris
        said it, you believed it, and that settled it.

        Apparently so, the claim was still there a few minutes
        ago when I last checked.

        And do you even now give any reason for believing that
        plaque is at the Naval Academy as opposed to the Goshen
        Pass?

        The main point is not any inscription, or bible in hand,
        or sick bed story, or tombstone; the main point is how
        the "big boys" like you deal with problems; very simple
        problems.

        I now have the empirical data to use to evaluate what
        the Creation Science Hall of Fame is about.

        Others can form their own opinions about such things.

        Matthew 7:1,2
        James 3:1

        There are other matters that you never got around to
        openly, honestly dealing with, Nick. That's part of
        the record should you or your designated representative
        decide to get serious about a little problem solving
        regarding these important, public issues.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty


        --------------------------------
        --------------------------------
      • rlbaty50
        (6) From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...) To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...) CC: diatheke2@... CC: fwepboyd@... CC: joseph@... CC: seeevidence@... CC: temlakos@...
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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          (6)

          From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
          To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
          CC: diatheke2@...
          CC: fwepboyd@...
          CC: joseph@...
          CC: seeevidence@...
          CC: temlakos@...
          Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 22:01:59 -0500

          Subject: Re: Revisiting the simplest of matters
          wherein, I propose, you do err!

          Robert,

          I'm sorry, but your emails are beginning to sound
          like a lot of double talk, wandering, and beating
          a dead horse.

          For the last time, Matthew Fontaine Maury meets
          the Creation Science Hall of Fame induction criteria.

          He stays inducted because we proved to you and others
          that Maury was and is a Christian Creationist.

          Nick Lally,
          Chairman, Board of Directors
          Creation Science Hall of Fame

          (7)

          To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
          From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
          CC: diatheke2@...
          CC: fwepboyd@...
          CC: joseph@...
          CC: seeevidence@...
          CC: temlakos@...
          Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 22:04:48 -0500

          Subject: RE: Revisiting the simplest of matters
          wherein, I propose, you do err!

          Nick,

          I find it hard to believe that you believe what
          you are now accusing me of and what you claim to
          have done.

          You are welcome to your opinion, and your further
          evasions are again noted.

          You know how to contact me if you or your designated
          representative decides to be open and honest in doing
          a little problem solving regarding these important,
          simple, public issues.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

          ----------------------------------------
          ----------------------------------------
        • rlbaty50
          Remembering how Nick Lally and I got into the tombstone issue which Nick appears to now be misrepresenting: (8) Note the date! Archived at:
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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            Remembering how Nick Lally and I got into the "tombstone" issue which Nick appears to now be misrepresenting:

            (8) Note the date!

            Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30109

            To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
            From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
            CC: joestephen@...
            CC: seeevidence@...
            CC: temalakos@...
            CC: diatheke2@...
            CC: fwepboyd@...
            Date: Sunday, December 16, 2012 19:20:38 -0500

            Subject: Maybe a less emotional issue? - Maury!

            Nick,

            You and yours need to calm down a bit and maybe showing
            your stuff on a less emotional issue would help in trying
            to demonstrate your good faith; matters of fact stuff
            instead of opinions about the propriety of inducting a
            decades long tax cheater into the Hall.

            So, let me try this on you:

            Your Maury promotion has this claim:

            http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

            > On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy
            > is inscribed the eighth Psalm, especially verse
            > 8: "… whatsoever passeth through the paths
            > of the seas."

            Is that true?

            If there is something at the Naval Academy with such
            an inscription; can it be a tombstone if Maury was not,
            is not buried there?

            Have you got anything other than "some preacher said so"
            to verify the claim?

            If you did any real research, you would have found that
            one of my earlier concerns was the insistence that there
            was a statue of Maury at the Academy depicting Maury with
            a Bible in one out-stretched hand.

            I never found that statue!

            So it was that that "tombstone at the Academy" caught
            my attention.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            (9) Note the date!

            Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30127

            To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
            From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
            CC: diatheke2@...
            CC: fwepboyd@...
            CC: joestephen@...
            CC: seeevidence@...
            CC: temlakos@...
            Date: Monday, December 17, 2012 13:28:11 -0500

            Subject: RE: Info on Mathew Fontaine Maury, from Nick

            (excerpts)

            Nick,

            On the simple stuff, however, Nick, I notice that
            you do seem to explicitly admit that you cannot
            confirm the claim made on your website about that
            Tombstone at the Naval Academy.

            I didn't think you would, and the world is watching
            to see how you deal with this simple, factual matter
            and your efforts to canonize Maury and his myth.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            (10) Note the date!

            Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30127

            To: Terry A. Hurlbut (temlakos@...)
            From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
            CC: creationfacts@...
            CC: diatheke2@...
            CC: fwepboyd@...
            CC: joestephen@...
            CC: seeevidence@...
            Date: Monday, December 17, 2012 13:51:17 -0500

            Subject: RE: Info on Mathew Fontaine Maury, from Nick

            (excerpts)

            Terry,

            I questioned the claim about the tombstone claimed
            to exist at the Naval Academy.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            (11) Note the date!

            Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30127

            From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
            To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
            CC: diatheke2@...
            CC: fwepboyd@...
            CC: joestephen@...
            CC: seeevidence@...
            CC: temlakos@...
            Date: Monday, December 17, 2012 14:31:50 -0500

            Subject: Re: Info on Matthew Fontaine Maury, from Nick

            (excerpts)

            Robert,

            (W)e haven't secured the "first hand proof" about
            a statue and Psalm 8, but as you already know, we
            have taken our information from the late
            Dr. Henry Morris.

            (F)or now, we will rely on Henry Morris' assessment
            and keep Maury posted as is.....and please do keep
            an eye on us.

            We welcome it as we have nothing to hide.

            Robert, I wonder what you are hiding?
            Nothing escapes our God.
            He knows our hearts....including yours.

            Nick

            --------------------------------------------------
            --------------------------------------------------

            January 5, 2013 - My Further Comments:

            I think there is some hiding going on with regard to these matters and it's on Nick's side of the monitor!

            As "they say" so often in such cases, it's not the blunder about the CSHF promotion of the Academy tombstone that isn't there, but the apparent cover up!

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty
          • rlbaty50
            Does it get much simpler than this? Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 Time: 10:15 PM MT Link:
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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              Does it get much simpler than this?

              Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013
              Time: 10:15 PM MT

              Link:

              http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

              Claim:

              > Matthew Fontaine Maury
              >
              > On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy...
              >
              >> Excerpted from Men of Science, Men of God
              >> by Henry M. Morris.
              >> Copyright 1982, 1988 by Henry M. Morris.
              >> Used by permission.

              I think I have a pretty good reason for believing that that tombstone is not there and have made the owners/operators of that website aware of my concerns; more than 2 weeks ago. See archives here for extensive correspondence about that and related matters.

              The claim remains and I have been provided with no evidence that there is such a tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy.

              Make of it what you will!
              I will!

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty
            • rlbaty50
              After all this time... Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013 Time: 12:30 PM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ Claim:
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 6, 2013
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                After all this time...

                Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013
                Time: 12:30 PM MT

                Link:

                http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                Claim:

                "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                Source:

                "Men of Science, Men of God"
                by Henry M. Morris
                Copyright 1982, 1988

                -----------------------------------------------
                -----------------------------------------------

                My position:

                Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty
              • rlbaty50
                After all this time... Date: Monday, January 7, 2013 Time: 2:00 PM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ Claim:
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 7, 2013
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                  After all this time...

                  Date: Monday, January 7, 2013
                  Time: 2:00 PM MT

                  Link:

                  http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                  Claim:

                  "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                  Source:

                  "Men of Science, Men of God"
                  by Henry M. Morris
                  Copyright 1982, 1988

                  -----------------------------------------------
                  -----------------------------------------------

                  My position:

                  Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty
                • rlbaty50
                  After all this time... Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 Time: 11:30 AM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ Claim:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 8, 2013
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                    After all this time...

                    Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013
                    Time: 11:30 AM MT

                    Link:

                    http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                    Claim:

                    "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                    Source:

                    "Men of Science, Men of God"
                    by Henry M. Morris
                    Copyright 1982, 1988

                    -----------------------------------------------
                    -----------------------------------------------

                    My position:

                    Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                    Sincerely,
                    Robert Baty
                  • rlbaty50
                    Nick Lally contacted me last night (January 10, 2013) for just some cordial conversation about how things are going. In part, I advised him of the following,
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 11, 2013
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                      Nick Lally contacted me last night (January 10, 2013) for just some cordial conversation about how things are going.

                      In part, I advised him of the following, updated as of right now:

                      Date: Friday, January 11, 2013
                      Time: 12:30 AM MT

                      Link:

                      http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                      Claim:

                      "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                      Source:

                      "Men of Science, Men of God"
                      by Henry M. Morris
                      Copyright 1982, 1988

                      -----------------------------------------------
                      -----------------------------------------------

                      My position:

                      Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                      Sincerely,
                      Robert Baty
                    • rlbaty50
                      I have been in contact with the Creation Science Hall of Fame Board of Directors regarding the public offer this morning from Forbes contributor Peter J.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                        I have been in contact with the Creation Science Hall of Fame Board of Directors regarding the public offer this morning from Forbes contributor Peter J. Reilly that supporters of the "tax protest" position contact him so that he might give consideration to publishing one or more columns on that important, public issue.

                        In that context, I noted earlier that the CSHF had revised its defense of Kent Hovind by posting Kent's own defense; conspicuously omitting any references to his and his wife's personal income tax cases pending before the U.S. Tax Court.

                        Considering that recent update on their website, I checked to see what, if anything, they have done about the "tombstone" claim and found the following:

                        Date: Thursday, January 17, 2013
                        Time: 11:30 AM MT

                        Link:

                        http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                        Claim:

                        "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                        Source:

                        "Men of Science, Men of God"
                        by Henry M. Morris
                        Copyright 1982, 1988

                        -----------------------------------------------
                        -----------------------------------------------

                        My position:

                        Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                        Sincerely,
                        Robert Baty
                      • rlbaty50
                        Another 36 hours goes by: Date: Friday, January 18, 2013 Time: 11:00 PM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ ... My
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 18, 2013
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                          Another 36 hours goes by:

                          Date: Friday, January 18, 2013
                          Time: 11:00 PM MT

                          Link:

                          http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                          Claim:

                          > "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                          Source:

                          > "Men of Science, Men of God"
                          > by Henry M. Morris
                          > Copyright 1982, 1988

                          My position:

                          Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                          Sincerely,
                          Robert Baty
                        • rlbaty50
                          The days got by and still... Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 Time: 2:25 PM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ ...
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 22, 2013
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                            The days got by and still...

                            Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2013
                            Time: 2:25 PM MT

                            Link:

                            http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                            Claim:

                            > "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                            Source:

                            > "Men of Science, Men of God"
                            > by Henry M. Morris
                            > Copyright 1982, 1988

                            My position:

                            Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                            Sincerely,
                            Robert Baty
                          • rlbaty50
                            Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 Time: 3:55 PM MT http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ ... Yep, after all this time Nick
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 30, 2013
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                              Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2013
                              Time: 3:55 PM MT

                              http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                              > Matthew Fontaine Maury
                              >
                              > On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy...

                              Yep, after all this time Nick Lally, Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Creation Science Hall of Fame, allows that simple, factual claim to remain up on his Hall of Fame website.

                              My position remains unchanged.

                              I don't think Maury's tombstone is at the U.S. Naval Academy.

                              Sincerely,
                              Robert Baty
                            • rlbaty50
                              Date: Saturday, February 2, 2013 Time: 7:45 PM MT http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ ... After all this time, that allegedly
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 2, 2013
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                                Date: Saturday, February 2, 2013
                                Time: 7:45 PM MT

                                http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                                > Matthew Fontaine Maury
                                >
                                > On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy...

                                After all this time, that allegedly false claim remains!

                                My position remains unchanged.

                                I don't think Maury's tombstone is at the U.S. Naval Academy.

                                Sincerely,
                                Robert Baty
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