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Creation Science Hall of Fame - Maury Update!

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  • rlbaty50
    Shame on them all! Shame! Despite my efforts, they have chosen to continue to falsely represent the matters we discussed and continue their misrepresentations
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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      Shame on them all!
      Shame!

      Despite my efforts, they have chosen to continue to falsely represent the matters we discussed and continue their misrepresentations regarding Maury matters.

      Following is the link and current text (excluding graphics) of their promotion of Maury as one of their deceased inductees (i.e., unavailable for direct testimony and defense of his position):

      ------------------------------------------------

      Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013
      Time: 3:20 PM MT

      http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

      Matthew Fontaine Maury

      Lieutenant Matthew Fontaine Maury USN Matthew Fontaine
      Maury (1806 -1873), known as "the Pathfinder of the Seas"
      was, to all intents and purposes, the founder of the
      modern sciences of hydrography and oceanography.

      On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy is inscribed
      the eighth Psalm, especially verse 8: "… whatsoever
      passeth through the paths of the seas."

      He believed if God said there were paths in the seas,
      a man could find them, and he dedicated his life to
      doing just that. Most of his career was spent with the
      U.S. Navy, charting the winds and currents of the
      Atlantic, with his latter years spent as Professor of
      Meteorology at Virginia Military Institute.

      Statement from the Creation Science Hall of Fame on
      Matthew Fontaine Maury

      Several atheists have recently laid with us what they
      believe to be evidence that Matthew Fontaine Maury
      does not deserve a place in the CSHF.

      They claim that Maury:

      > Was deficient in his belief of Christianity,
      >
      > Did not believe in a supernatural creation
      > as written in Genesis,
      >
      > Had no Bible-in-the-hand statue, and
      >
      > Had no inscription on his tombstone at the
      > US Naval Academy referring to Psalm 8:8.

      Upon receiving these accusations, the CSHF sought
      the truth in history.

      After much research we discovered the following 4
      proofs that support our decision to induct Maury
      into the CSHF.

      Proof 1:

      Maury was never deficient in his belief in Christianity

      The book Tributes to M.F. Maury is dedicated to
      the memory of Captain James Maury Werth, U.S. Navy
      (Retired) (September 15, 1917 – January 8, 2008),
      a great-grandson of Matthew F. Maury and the former
      Superintendent of the U.S. Naval Observatory from
      1968 to 1972.

      Author Howard Cohen graduated from the Massachusetts
      Maritime Academy in 1977 with a Bachelor of Science
      in Marine Transportation and minor in Oceanography.

      He served as a Licensed Deck Officer in the U.S.
      Merchant Marine. Mr. Cohen is currently a Marine
      Analysis Professional Advisory Board Manager in the
      Workforce and Development Tradecraft Office.

      He has written extensively about NGA's Maritime
      Domain's heritage, products, services, and
      accomplishments. His articles have been published
      in Hydro International, Via Inmarsat, IMO News, and
      NOAA's Mariners Weather Log.

      Mr. Cohen was a Public Affairs Officer in the Office
      of Corporate Relations and holds a Masters of Arts
      in Communications from American University, 1969.

      Quote from the book, Tributes to M.F. Maury:

      > Miss Belle Maury, the daughter of R. H. Maury,
      > who was ten at the time, remembers servants
      > hauling tubs of water to the third floor front
      > room for the experiments. Both Matthew Maury
      > and his wife, Ann Herndon, were deeply religious;
      > however, his wife was opposed to her husband's
      > underwater experiments because it was an
      > "Unchristian like way to kill people."

      Proof 2:

      Maury was never deficient in his belief in a supernatural
      creation as written in Genesis

      Here is what Maury wrote in a letter entitled "The Bible
      and Science"

      > I pass by the history of creation as it is
      > written on the tablet of the rocks and in
      > the Book of Revelation, because the question
      > has been discussed so much and so often that
      > you, no doubt, are familiar with the whole
      > subject. In both, the order of creation are
      > the same. First the plant to afford sustenance,
      > and then the animals, the chief point of apparent
      > difference being as to the duration of the
      > period between `the evening and the morning.'
      > `A thousand years are in His sight as one day,'
      > and the Mosiac account affords evidence itself
      > that the term `day,' as there used, is not that
      > which comprehends our twenty-four hours. It was
      > a day that had its `evening and morning' before
      > the sun was made.

      This seems to indicate that he is open to an old earth.
      However, later in the same letter, he says,

      > If the two [science and Scripture] cannot be
      > reconciled, the fault is ours, and is because,
      > in our blindness and weakness, we have not been
      > able to interpret aright either the one, or the
      > other, or both.

      Thus, the Creation Science Hall of Fame believes that Maury
      thought science says the earth is old and that the Bible
      says the earth is young, and that apparent contradiction
      is our fault, not that of science or Scripture.

      These quotes come from a book called, "A Life of Matthew
      Fontaine Maury" by Diana Fontaine Corbin and Nannie Corbin,
      pp. 159-160.

      Proof 3:

      The Maury statue does depict Maury with a Bible close by.

      The problem:

      the Bible wasn't in his hand. It lay by his left foot.
      See here from Pathfinder of the Seas by J. W. Wayland,
      p. 161.

      Matthew Fontaine Maury's statue in Richmond, VA. Note
      the Bible lying at his feet.

      Matthew Fontaine Maury; annotated photograph of the
      statue on Monument Avenue, Richmond, VA, USA. From:
      Wayland JW, Pathfinder of the Seas, p. 161

      Proof 4:

      A memorial plaque to Maury does refer to Psalm 8:8.

      The inscription was on a plaque instead and not on a
      tombstone.

      ---------------------------------------------
      ---------------------------------------------
    • rlbaty50
      To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...) From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...) CC: diatheke2@... CC: fwepboyd@... CC: joseph@... CC: seeevidence@... CC: temlakos@... Date:
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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        To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
        From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
        CC: diatheke2@...
        CC: fwepboyd@...
        CC: joseph@...
        CC: seeevidence@...
        CC: temlakos@...
        Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 20:23:51 -0500

        Subject: Revisiting the simplest of matters wherein,
        I propose, you do err!

        Nick, et al:

        I cannot presently take the time to address all of
        the problems you have created for yourselves in
        trying to canonize Maury into your Hall of Fame,
        but I will try once again to explain one of the
        simplest of matters and why my analysis of your
        broader effort is most critical.

        Reference to your latest efforts:

        http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

        > "On his tombstone
        > at the U.S. Naval Academy
        > is inscribed..."

        My complaint was, and has been, that his tombstone
        is not, was not, at the U.S. Naval Academy and yet
        you continue to make that false (I propose) claim.

        And how do you propose to resolve that?
        By writing, in relevant part:

        > "Proof 4:...
        >
        > The inscription was on a plaque instead
        > and not on a tombstone. See below:"

        The "see below" is to a picture of a plaque with
        inscription from the Goshen Pass, through which
        Maury's body was carried after his death; NOT
        from anything at the U.S. Naval Academy.

        Shame on the lot of you!

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty

        P.S. It is noted that you offered no documentation
        of any of the claims you allege were made by "several
        atheists recently", and what you offered comes across
        as a gross misrepresentation of my efforts to deal with
        your problems regarding Maury and your representations
        thereof.

        ------------------------------------------------------

        --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
        "rlbaty50" wrote:

        Shame on them all!
        Shame!

        Despite my efforts, they have chosen to continue to falsely represent the
        matters we discussed and continue their misrepresentations regarding Maury
        matters.

        Following is the link and current text (excluding graphics) of their promotion
        of Maury as one of their deceased inductees (i.e., unavailable for direct
        testimony and defense of his position):

        ------------------------------------------------

        Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013
        Time: 3:20 PM MT

        http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

        Matthew Fontaine Maury

        Lieutenant Matthew Fontaine Maury USN Matthew Fontaine
        Maury (1806 -1873), known as "the Pathfinder of the Seas"
        was, to all intents and purposes, the founder of the
        modern sciences of hydrography and oceanography.

        On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy is inscribed
        the eighth Psalm, especially verse 8: "… whatsoever
        passeth through the paths of the seas."

        He believed if God said there were paths in the seas,
        a man could find them, and he dedicated his life to
        doing just that. Most of his career was spent with the
        U.S. Navy, charting the winds and currents of the
        Atlantic, with his latter years spent as Professor of
        Meteorology at Virginia Military Institute.

        Statement from the Creation Science Hall of Fame on
        Matthew Fontaine Maury

        Several atheists have recently laid with us what they
        believe to be evidence that Matthew Fontaine Maury
        does not deserve a place in the CSHF.

        They claim that Maury:

        > Was deficient in his belief of Christianity,
        >
        > Did not believe in a supernatural creation
        > as written in Genesis,
        >
        > Had no Bible-in-the-hand statue, and
        >
        > Had no inscription on his tombstone at the
        > US Naval Academy referring to Psalm 8:8.

        Upon receiving these accusations, the CSHF sought
        the truth in history.

        After much research we discovered the following 4
        proofs that support our decision to induct Maury
        into the CSHF.

        Proof 1:

        Maury was never deficient in his belief in Christianity

        The book Tributes to M.F. Maury is dedicated to
        the memory of Captain James Maury Werth, U.S. Navy
        (Retired) (September 15, 1917 – January 8, 2008),
        a great-grandson of Matthew F. Maury and the former
        Superintendent of the U.S. Naval Observatory from
        1968 to 1972.

        Author Howard Cohen graduated from the Massachusetts
        Maritime Academy in 1977 with a Bachelor of Science
        in Marine Transportation and minor in Oceanography.

        He served as a Licensed Deck Officer in the U.S.
        Merchant Marine. Mr. Cohen is currently a Marine
        Analysis Professional Advisory Board Manager in the
        Workforce and Development Tradecraft Office.

        He has written extensively about NGA's Maritime
        Domain's heritage, products, services, and
        accomplishments. His articles have been published
        in Hydro International, Via Inmarsat, IMO News, and
        NOAA's Mariners Weather Log.

        Mr. Cohen was a Public Affairs Officer in the Office
        of Corporate Relations and holds a Masters of Arts
        in Communications from American University, 1969.

        Quote from the book, Tributes to M.F. Maury:

        > Miss Belle Maury, the daughter of R. H. Maury,
        > who was ten at the time, remembers servants
        > hauling tubs of water to the third floor front
        > room for the experiments. Both Matthew Maury
        > and his wife, Ann Herndon, were deeply religious;
        > however, his wife was opposed to her husband's
        > underwater experiments because it was an
        > "Unchristian like way to kill people."

        Proof 2:

        Maury was never deficient in his belief in a supernatural
        creation as written in Genesis

        Here is what Maury wrote in a letter entitled "The Bible
        and Science"

        > I pass by the history of creation as it is
        > written on the tablet of the rocks and in
        > the Book of Revelation, because the question
        > has been discussed so much and so often that
        > you, no doubt, are familiar with the whole
        > subject. In both, the order of creation are
        > the same. First the plant to afford sustenance,
        > and then the animals, the chief point of apparent
        > difference being as to the duration of the
        > period between `the evening and the morning.'
        > `A thousand years are in His sight as one day,'
        > and the Mosiac account affords evidence itself
        > that the term `day,' as there used, is not that
        > which comprehends our twenty-four hours. It was
        > a day that had its `evening and morning' before
        > the sun was made.

        This seems to indicate that he is open to an old earth.
        However, later in the same letter, he says,

        > If the two [science and Scripture] cannot be
        > reconciled, the fault is ours, and is because,
        > in our blindness and weakness, we have not been
        > able to interpret aright either the one, or the
        > other, or both.

        Thus, the Creation Science Hall of Fame believes that Maury
        thought science says the earth is old and that the Bible
        says the earth is young, and that apparent contradiction
        is our fault, not that of science or Scripture.

        These quotes come from a book called, "A Life of Matthew
        Fontaine Maury" by Diana Fontaine Corbin and Nannie Corbin,
        pp. 159-160.

        Proof 3:

        The Maury statue does depict Maury with a Bible close by.

        The problem:

        the Bible wasn't in his hand. It lay by his left foot.
        See here from Pathfinder of the Seas by J. W. Wayland,
        p. 161.

        Matthew Fontaine Maury's statue in Richmond, VA. Note
        the Bible lying at his feet.

        Matthew Fontaine Maury; annotated photograph of the
        statue on Monument Avenue, Richmond, VA, USA. From:
        Wayland JW, Pathfinder of the Seas, p. 161

        Proof 4:

        A memorial plaque to Maury does refer to Psalm 8:8.

        The inscription was on a plaque instead and not on a
        tombstone.

        ---------------------------------------------
        ---------------------------------------------
      • rlbaty50
        (2) From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...) To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...) CC: diatheke2@... CC: fwepboyd@... CC: joseph@... CC: seeevidence@... CC: temlakos@...
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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          (2)

          From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
          To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
          CC: diatheke2@...
          CC: fwepboyd@...
          CC: joseph@...
          CC: seeevidence@...
          CC: temlakos@...
          Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 21:14:26 -0500

          Subject: Re: Revisiting the simplest of matters
          wherein, I propose, you do err!

          Robert,

          You are not gracious about seeing your opponent clearly
          win an argument and I don't want to go back in my history
          of hundreds of emails to demonstrate such a insignificant
          issue that you have raised here.

          You are cutting hairs so thin that you are missing the
          overall picture.

          Because of your public writings about Maury to the Creation
          Science Hall of Fame, several others jumped on the
          "Baty Bandwagon" and accused us of many untruths about
          Maury's induction...which included these 4 major issues:

          > Maury was deficient in his belief of Christianity,

          > Maury did not believe in a supernatural creation
          > as written in Genesis,

          > Maury had no Bible-in-the-hand statue, and

          > Maury had no inscription on his tombstone at
          > the US Naval Academy referring to Psalm 8:8.

          The CSHF addressed them all one by one and have demonstrated
          the truth about Matthew Fontaine Maury.

          See the following page from the CSHF web site.
          It's all there for anyone to read the facts.

          http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

          If Matthew Fontaine Maury had not met our criteria of
          induction, I would have personally recommended removal....
          but he has and has done so with flying colors.

          Yes, Psalm 8 wasn't on the tombstone, but on the plaque instead....which we have indicated on the CSHF web site.

          But for you to make an issue of such a minor thing, only
          goes to prove my point that you are only interested in
          the "controversy" and not the over all truth.

          My advice to you is to "give up Maury".

          It's a loosing battle because he is and was a Christian
          Creationists and he fulfiled the criteria for induction
          into the Creation Science Hall of Fame.

          And as long as I am the Chairman of the Board of Directors
          for the Creation Science Hall of Fame, I will never
          recommend that Matthew Fontaine Maury be removed from his
          Induction into the CSHF because he deserves to be inducted.

          Nick Lally,
          Chairman, Board of Directors,
          Creation Science Hall of Fame

          (3)

          To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
          From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
          CC: diatheke2@...
          CC: fwepboyd@...
          CC: joseph@...
          CC: seeevidence@...;
          CC: temlakos@...
          Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 21:20:29 -0500

          Subject: RE: Revisiting the simplest of matters
          wherein, I propose, you do err!

          Nick,

          You are welcome to use Maury as you see fit, as I
          have previously admitted.

          However, your actions have consequences, and my
          criticisms, quite justified, are just an example.

          I have repeatedly advised you of the simplicity of
          my approach to things, and yet you contain to be
          confounded by it.

          Why should I expect you could handle the "weightier
          matters" any better.

          Are you determined, perhaps out of spite for me, to
          continue to falsely (I propose) claim that there is
          a Maury tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy and leave
          the impression on your website that that plaque you
          refer to there is at the U.S. Naval Academy as opposed
          to the Goshen Pass?

          And you still "refuse" to document the complaints you
          allege were filed regarding Maury.

          Do as you wish.

          Thanks for the further demonstration of what I am up
          against on even the most simplest of matters; though
          you are only the latest of my adversaries to so blunder
          over the simplest of matters.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

          --------------------------------------
          --------------------------------------
        • rlbaty50
          (4) From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...) To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...) CC: diatheke2@... CC: fwepboyd@... CC: joseph@... CC: seeevidence@... CC: temlakos@...
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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            (4)

            From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
            To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
            CC: diatheke2@...
            CC: fwepboyd@...
            CC: joseph@...
            CC: seeevidence@...
            CC: temlakos@...
            Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 21:35:37 -0500

            Subject: Re: Revisiting the simplest of matters
            wherein, I propose, you do err!

            Robert,

            Look at this web site on Maury and see where this plaque
            is located.

            I believe its at the Navy Academy, but it could be at
            Goshen Pass.

            But does it really matter?

            The entire point was that you insisted that there wasn't
            any inscription about Psalm 8 in reference to Maury on
            his statue, plaque or his tombstone.

            See for your self.

            Click on this link and scroll down until you find Maury's
            plaque.

            I believe its at the Naval Academy.

            If its at the Pass, so be it.

            It doesn't make a difference because the main point was
            that Psalm 8 wasn't associate with Maury and it is.

            It's that simple.

            http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/Files/MatthewMaury.pdf

            Nick Lally,
            Chairman, Board of Directors,
            Creation Science Hall of Fame

            (5)

            To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
            From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
            CC: diatheke2@...
            CC: fwepboyd@...
            CC: joseph@...
            CC: seeevidence@...
            CC: temlakos@...
            Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 21:46:57 -0500

            Subject: RE: Revisiting the simplest of matters
            wherein, I propose, you do err!

            Nick,

            It's been your test, Nick, and of your board members.

            Matthew 7:1,2
            James 3:1

            You've been tried and found wanting.

            And now, I believe, you are falsely representing what
            my "entire point was"!

            Shame again, on the lot of you.

            It matters a great, great, great deal how you and people
            like you deal with the simplest of matters wherein us
            "tyros" have cause for concern about what you are up to.

            As I said, why should I venture to try and contend with
            you over "weightier matters".

            One of my points was that the tombstone was NOT at the
            Academy, and you indicated, in effect, that if Morris
            said it, you believed it, and that settled it.

            Apparently so, the claim was still there a few minutes
            ago when I last checked.

            And do you even now give any reason for believing that
            plaque is at the Naval Academy as opposed to the Goshen
            Pass?

            The main point is not any inscription, or bible in hand,
            or sick bed story, or tombstone; the main point is how
            the "big boys" like you deal with problems; very simple
            problems.

            I now have the empirical data to use to evaluate what
            the Creation Science Hall of Fame is about.

            Others can form their own opinions about such things.

            Matthew 7:1,2
            James 3:1

            There are other matters that you never got around to
            openly, honestly dealing with, Nick. That's part of
            the record should you or your designated representative
            decide to get serious about a little problem solving
            regarding these important, public issues.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty


            --------------------------------
            --------------------------------
          • rlbaty50
            (6) From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...) To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...) CC: diatheke2@... CC: fwepboyd@... CC: joseph@... CC: seeevidence@... CC: temlakos@...
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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              (6)

              From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
              To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
              CC: diatheke2@...
              CC: fwepboyd@...
              CC: joseph@...
              CC: seeevidence@...
              CC: temlakos@...
              Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 22:01:59 -0500

              Subject: Re: Revisiting the simplest of matters
              wherein, I propose, you do err!

              Robert,

              I'm sorry, but your emails are beginning to sound
              like a lot of double talk, wandering, and beating
              a dead horse.

              For the last time, Matthew Fontaine Maury meets
              the Creation Science Hall of Fame induction criteria.

              He stays inducted because we proved to you and others
              that Maury was and is a Christian Creationist.

              Nick Lally,
              Chairman, Board of Directors
              Creation Science Hall of Fame

              (7)

              To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
              From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
              CC: diatheke2@...
              CC: fwepboyd@...
              CC: joseph@...
              CC: seeevidence@...
              CC: temlakos@...
              Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 22:04:48 -0500

              Subject: RE: Revisiting the simplest of matters
              wherein, I propose, you do err!

              Nick,

              I find it hard to believe that you believe what
              you are now accusing me of and what you claim to
              have done.

              You are welcome to your opinion, and your further
              evasions are again noted.

              You know how to contact me if you or your designated
              representative decides to be open and honest in doing
              a little problem solving regarding these important,
              simple, public issues.

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty

              ----------------------------------------
              ----------------------------------------
            • rlbaty50
              Remembering how Nick Lally and I got into the tombstone issue which Nick appears to now be misrepresenting: (8) Note the date! Archived at:
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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                Remembering how Nick Lally and I got into the "tombstone" issue which Nick appears to now be misrepresenting:

                (8) Note the date!

                Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30109

                To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
                From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
                CC: joestephen@...
                CC: seeevidence@...
                CC: temalakos@...
                CC: diatheke2@...
                CC: fwepboyd@...
                Date: Sunday, December 16, 2012 19:20:38 -0500

                Subject: Maybe a less emotional issue? - Maury!

                Nick,

                You and yours need to calm down a bit and maybe showing
                your stuff on a less emotional issue would help in trying
                to demonstrate your good faith; matters of fact stuff
                instead of opinions about the propriety of inducting a
                decades long tax cheater into the Hall.

                So, let me try this on you:

                Your Maury promotion has this claim:

                http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                > On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy
                > is inscribed the eighth Psalm, especially verse
                > 8: "… whatsoever passeth through the paths
                > of the seas."

                Is that true?

                If there is something at the Naval Academy with such
                an inscription; can it be a tombstone if Maury was not,
                is not buried there?

                Have you got anything other than "some preacher said so"
                to verify the claim?

                If you did any real research, you would have found that
                one of my earlier concerns was the insistence that there
                was a statue of Maury at the Academy depicting Maury with
                a Bible in one out-stretched hand.

                I never found that statue!

                So it was that that "tombstone at the Academy" caught
                my attention.

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty

                (9) Note the date!

                Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30127

                To: Nick Lally (creationfacts@...)
                From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
                CC: diatheke2@...
                CC: fwepboyd@...
                CC: joestephen@...
                CC: seeevidence@...
                CC: temlakos@...
                Date: Monday, December 17, 2012 13:28:11 -0500

                Subject: RE: Info on Mathew Fontaine Maury, from Nick

                (excerpts)

                Nick,

                On the simple stuff, however, Nick, I notice that
                you do seem to explicitly admit that you cannot
                confirm the claim made on your website about that
                Tombstone at the Naval Academy.

                I didn't think you would, and the world is watching
                to see how you deal with this simple, factual matter
                and your efforts to canonize Maury and his myth.

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty

                (10) Note the date!

                Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30127

                To: Terry A. Hurlbut (temlakos@...)
                From: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
                CC: creationfacts@...
                CC: diatheke2@...
                CC: fwepboyd@...
                CC: joestephen@...
                CC: seeevidence@...
                Date: Monday, December 17, 2012 13:51:17 -0500

                Subject: RE: Info on Mathew Fontaine Maury, from Nick

                (excerpts)

                Terry,

                I questioned the claim about the tombstone claimed
                to exist at the Naval Academy.

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty

                (11) Note the date!

                Archived at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/30127

                From: Nick Lally (Creationfacts@...)
                To: Robert Baty (rlbaty@...)
                CC: diatheke2@...
                CC: fwepboyd@...
                CC: joestephen@...
                CC: seeevidence@...
                CC: temlakos@...
                Date: Monday, December 17, 2012 14:31:50 -0500

                Subject: Re: Info on Matthew Fontaine Maury, from Nick

                (excerpts)

                Robert,

                (W)e haven't secured the "first hand proof" about
                a statue and Psalm 8, but as you already know, we
                have taken our information from the late
                Dr. Henry Morris.

                (F)or now, we will rely on Henry Morris' assessment
                and keep Maury posted as is.....and please do keep
                an eye on us.

                We welcome it as we have nothing to hide.

                Robert, I wonder what you are hiding?
                Nothing escapes our God.
                He knows our hearts....including yours.

                Nick

                --------------------------------------------------
                --------------------------------------------------

                January 5, 2013 - My Further Comments:

                I think there is some hiding going on with regard to these matters and it's on Nick's side of the monitor!

                As "they say" so often in such cases, it's not the blunder about the CSHF promotion of the Academy tombstone that isn't there, but the apparent cover up!

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty
              • rlbaty50
                Does it get much simpler than this? Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013 Time: 10:15 PM MT Link:
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 5, 2013
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                  Does it get much simpler than this?

                  Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013
                  Time: 10:15 PM MT

                  Link:

                  http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                  Claim:

                  > Matthew Fontaine Maury
                  >
                  > On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy...
                  >
                  >> Excerpted from Men of Science, Men of God
                  >> by Henry M. Morris.
                  >> Copyright 1982, 1988 by Henry M. Morris.
                  >> Used by permission.

                  I think I have a pretty good reason for believing that that tombstone is not there and have made the owners/operators of that website aware of my concerns; more than 2 weeks ago. See archives here for extensive correspondence about that and related matters.

                  The claim remains and I have been provided with no evidence that there is such a tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy.

                  Make of it what you will!
                  I will!

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty
                • rlbaty50
                  After all this time... Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013 Time: 12:30 PM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ Claim:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 6, 2013
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                    After all this time...

                    Date: Sunday, January 6, 2013
                    Time: 12:30 PM MT

                    Link:

                    http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                    Claim:

                    "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                    Source:

                    "Men of Science, Men of God"
                    by Henry M. Morris
                    Copyright 1982, 1988

                    -----------------------------------------------
                    -----------------------------------------------

                    My position:

                    Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                    Sincerely,
                    Robert Baty
                  • rlbaty50
                    After all this time... Date: Monday, January 7, 2013 Time: 2:00 PM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ Claim:
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 7, 2013
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                      After all this time...

                      Date: Monday, January 7, 2013
                      Time: 2:00 PM MT

                      Link:

                      http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                      Claim:

                      "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                      Source:

                      "Men of Science, Men of God"
                      by Henry M. Morris
                      Copyright 1982, 1988

                      -----------------------------------------------
                      -----------------------------------------------

                      My position:

                      Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                      Sincerely,
                      Robert Baty
                    • rlbaty50
                      After all this time... Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 Time: 11:30 AM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ Claim:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 8, 2013
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                        After all this time...

                        Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013
                        Time: 11:30 AM MT

                        Link:

                        http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                        Claim:

                        "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                        Source:

                        "Men of Science, Men of God"
                        by Henry M. Morris
                        Copyright 1982, 1988

                        -----------------------------------------------
                        -----------------------------------------------

                        My position:

                        Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                        Sincerely,
                        Robert Baty
                      • rlbaty50
                        Nick Lally contacted me last night (January 10, 2013) for just some cordial conversation about how things are going. In part, I advised him of the following,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 11, 2013
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                          Nick Lally contacted me last night (January 10, 2013) for just some cordial conversation about how things are going.

                          In part, I advised him of the following, updated as of right now:

                          Date: Friday, January 11, 2013
                          Time: 12:30 AM MT

                          Link:

                          http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                          Claim:

                          "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                          Source:

                          "Men of Science, Men of God"
                          by Henry M. Morris
                          Copyright 1982, 1988

                          -----------------------------------------------
                          -----------------------------------------------

                          My position:

                          Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                          Sincerely,
                          Robert Baty
                        • rlbaty50
                          I have been in contact with the Creation Science Hall of Fame Board of Directors regarding the public offer this morning from Forbes contributor Peter J.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 17, 2013
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                            I have been in contact with the Creation Science Hall of Fame Board of Directors regarding the public offer this morning from Forbes contributor Peter J. Reilly that supporters of the "tax protest" position contact him so that he might give consideration to publishing one or more columns on that important, public issue.

                            In that context, I noted earlier that the CSHF had revised its defense of Kent Hovind by posting Kent's own defense; conspicuously omitting any references to his and his wife's personal income tax cases pending before the U.S. Tax Court.

                            Considering that recent update on their website, I checked to see what, if anything, they have done about the "tombstone" claim and found the following:

                            Date: Thursday, January 17, 2013
                            Time: 11:30 AM MT

                            Link:

                            http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                            Claim:

                            "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                            Source:

                            "Men of Science, Men of God"
                            by Henry M. Morris
                            Copyright 1982, 1988

                            -----------------------------------------------
                            -----------------------------------------------

                            My position:

                            Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                            Sincerely,
                            Robert Baty
                          • rlbaty50
                            Another 36 hours goes by: Date: Friday, January 18, 2013 Time: 11:00 PM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ ... My
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 18, 2013
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                              Another 36 hours goes by:

                              Date: Friday, January 18, 2013
                              Time: 11:00 PM MT

                              Link:

                              http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                              Claim:

                              > "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                              Source:

                              > "Men of Science, Men of God"
                              > by Henry M. Morris
                              > Copyright 1982, 1988

                              My position:

                              Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                              Sincerely,
                              Robert Baty
                            • rlbaty50
                              The days got by and still... Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 Time: 2:25 PM MT Link: http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ ...
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 22, 2013
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                                The days got by and still...

                                Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2013
                                Time: 2:25 PM MT

                                Link:

                                http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                                Claim:

                                > "...his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy..."

                                Source:

                                > "Men of Science, Men of God"
                                > by Henry M. Morris
                                > Copyright 1982, 1988

                                My position:

                                Maury's tombstone is NOT at the U.S. Naval Academy!

                                Sincerely,
                                Robert Baty
                              • rlbaty50
                                Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 Time: 3:55 PM MT http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ ... Yep, after all this time Nick
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 30, 2013
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                                  Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2013
                                  Time: 3:55 PM MT

                                  http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                                  > Matthew Fontaine Maury
                                  >
                                  > On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy...

                                  Yep, after all this time Nick Lally, Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Creation Science Hall of Fame, allows that simple, factual claim to remain up on his Hall of Fame website.

                                  My position remains unchanged.

                                  I don't think Maury's tombstone is at the U.S. Naval Academy.

                                  Sincerely,
                                  Robert Baty
                                • rlbaty50
                                  Date: Saturday, February 2, 2013 Time: 7:45 PM MT http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/ ... After all this time, that allegedly
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Feb 2, 2013
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                                    Date: Saturday, February 2, 2013
                                    Time: 7:45 PM MT

                                    http://creationsciencehalloffame.org/deceased/matthew-fontaine-maury/

                                    > Matthew Fontaine Maury
                                    >
                                    > On his tombstone at the U.S. Naval Academy...

                                    After all this time, that allegedly false claim remains!

                                    My position remains unchanged.

                                    I don't think Maury's tombstone is at the U.S. Naval Academy.

                                    Sincerely,
                                    Robert Baty
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