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Star suburb' is des res for aliens

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  • DBWILLIS@aol.com
    ... David Willis here, Yes, as this scientist can see, there is indeed a sobering implication from the fact that there SHOULD be sounds from other civs out
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 3, 2004
      >
      > >'Star suburb' is des res for aliens
      > >
      > >Tim Radford, science editor
      > >Friday January 2, 2004
      > >The Guardian
      > >
      > >Astronomers have identified a habitable zone in the Milky Way galaxy, a
      > >kind of suburb of stars with the elements needed for life, and old enough
      > >for sophisticated civilisations to have developed.
      > >The good news for those seeking extraterrestrial intelligence is that 10%
      > >of our galaxy - perhaps 10bn stars - could be ringed by rocky planets big
      > >enough to hold on to their atmosphere and water. The bad news is that they
      > >are on average a billion years older than the sun.
      > >"This should be a sobering result," Charles Lineweaver, of the University
      > >of New South Wales, says today in Science. "A billion years is a long,
      > >long time."
      > >For more than a decade, astronomers have been tuning in to the cosmos,
      > >listening for faint signals that might hint at life on distant stars.
      > >Since the development of television, microwave signals have been expanding
      > >from Earth like a giant bubble. Episodes of Coronation Street have now
      > >reached stars more than 40 light years away. The logic is that even though
      > >the distances are too far for space travel, the heavens should be buzzing
      > >with the extraterrestrial equivalent of television. But so far nobody has
      > >heard a peep.
      > >So astrobiologists have focused on trying to work out if the Earth is just
      > >one lucky accident in a galaxy of silent worlds. Dr Lineweaver and two
      > >colleagues picked up the idea of a "galactic habitable zone" which would
      > >be home to a host star with enough heavy elements - carbon, oxygen, iron,
      > >aluminium, silicon, uranium, and so on - to form Earth-like planets around
      > it.
      > >The suburban region is around 25,000 light years from the core of the
      > >galaxy and is composed of stars that emerged about 8bn years ago. The sun
      > >and its planets are in this belt but are relative newcomers at about 4bn
      > >years old.
      > >"When life is mentioned, astronomers have winced and haven't talked about
      > >it," said Dr Lineweaver. "It's been a taboo. I'd like to convince the
      > >astrobiology community that there is credence to this approach."
      >
      > http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1114837,00.html
      >

      David Willis here,

      Yes, as this scientist can see, there is indeed a "sobering" implication from
      the fact that there SHOULD be sounds from other civs out there, but there are
      not. He can see the implication that Todd and Robert have clenched their
      eyes tightly shut from seeing.

      I guess what is meant by "The bad news is that they are on average a billion
      years older than the sun" is that means that there has been plenty of time for
      advanced civilizations to have gotten a jump on OUR civ so as to have allowed
      us to expect to have heard from them already, but still there is no a peep
      from them. They identify a region of our galaxy which is 25,000 ly from the
      center (our galaxy is about 100,000 ly across) where they say there are plenty of
      stars that are likely to have planets capable of supporting life...they say
      about 10% of ALL the stars in the galaxy do. That's 10% of 100 BILLION stars!
      The fact that we cannot hear any sounds from other civs cannot be rationally
      explained by the idea (proferred by someone on this list, maybe Todd) that we
      just happen to be the first...since our sun is (supposedly) a relative
      newcomer, so many other stars have been around longer with many other
      life-supportable planets. If ANY of those 10% of stars in this zone which are a billion
      years ahead of ours had developed ETI civs, we should have heard from them by now,
      if they had started using radio more than 50,000 years ago. Our solar system
      is about 75,000 ly from the other edge of the galaxy, so that ring of the
      most likely stars is right in our neighborhood on this side of the galaxy and no
      more than 50,000 ly from us on the other side of the center of the galaxy.
      There should be PLENTY of places from whence we could be hearing radio
      signals...IF atheistic abiogenesis and evolution is true. But it is not.

      David Willis


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Todd S. Greene
      ... [snip] ... Hi, David, you inveterate misrepresenter, you! Unlike you - who denies, for example, that the SN1987A explosion ever really happened (since it
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 8, 2004
        --- In Maury_and_Baty, David Willis wrote (post #3035):
        >>> 'Star suburb' is des res for aliens
        >>>
        >>> Tim Radford, science editor
        >>> Friday January 2, 2004
        >>> The Guardian
        [snip]
        >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1114837,00.html
        >
        > David Willis here,
        >
        > Yes, as this scientist can see, there is indeed a "sobering"
        > implication from the fact that there SHOULD be sounds from other
        > civs out there, but there are not. He can see the implication that
        > Todd and Robert have clenched their eyes tightly shut from seeing.

        Hi, David, you inveterate misrepresenter, you!

        Unlike you - who denies, for example, that the SN1987A explosion ever
        really happened (since it took place about 168,000 years ago) even
        though we witnessed the stellar explosion - I haven't clenched my
        eyes shut from seeing what there is to see!

        >
        > I guess what is meant by "The bad news is that they are on average
        > a billion years older than the sun" is that means that there has
        > been plenty of time for advanced civilizations to have gotten a
        > jump on OUR civ so as to have allowed us to expect to have heard
        > from them already, but still there is no a peep from them. They
        > identify a region of our galaxy which is 25,000 ly from the
        > center (our galaxy is about 100,000 ly across) where they say
        > there are plenty of stars that are likely to have planets capable
        > of supporting life...they say about 10% of ALL the stars in the
        > galaxy do. That's 10% of 100 BILLION stars!

        Of course, this wouldn't be the first time that an overestimate of
        this kind has been made.

        > The fact that we cannot hear any sounds from other civs cannot be
        > rationally explained by the idea (proferred by someone on this
        > list, maybe Todd) that we just happen to be the first...since our
        > sun is (supposedly) a relative newcomer, so many other stars have
        > been around longer with many other life-supportable planets. If
        > ANY of those 10% of stars in this zone which are a billion years
        > ahead of ours had developed ETI civs, we should have heard from
        > them by now, if they had started using radio more than 50,000
        > years ago. Our solar system is about 75,000 ly from the other edge
        > of the galaxy, so that ring of the most likely stars is right in
        > our neighborhood on this side of the galaxy and no more than
        > 50,000 ly from us on the other side of the center of the galaxy.
        > There should be PLENTY of places from whence we could be hearing
        > radio signals...IF atheistic abiogenesis and evolution is true.
        > But it is not.

        Hmmm... Life existed on our planet for billions of years before any
        species came along that was capable of making advanced technology,
        and this itself was due to a number of historical contingencies. And
        in astronomical observation of our galaxy we have actually observed 0
        (zero) Earth-like planets (we don't even have the technology to do
        any kind of survey as this). Maybe we are the first technology-
        producing life form in our galaxy. Maybe not. Who knows?

        At least you didn't try to misrepresent the Drake Equation in this
        post, as has been your habit previously.

        It's kind of fun watching you build sandcastle arguments in the air
        of ignorance!

        Chuckling,
        Todd Greene
        http://www.creationism.cc/
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