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More implicit confirmation from Ken Ham!

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  • rlbaty50
    Ken Ham would do well to come out, come clean and explicitly admit that I have been accurately representing him; in light of how so many of his sympathizers
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 2, 2012
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      Ken Ham would do well to come out, come clean and explicitly admit that I have been accurately representing him; in light of how so many of his sympathizers have tried to take positions contrary to my representations.

      For now, however, Ken Ham's agents have made it clear that Ken Ham is not going to oblige my simple request and I am left to emphasize the implicit endorsement my representations have been given by Ken Ham.

      Today, Ken Ham has posted an older article again. It adds to the implicit endorsement by Ken Ham of my representations of him and his positions.

      ------------------------------------------

      http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v5/n2/starting-point

      Not Ashamed of a Biblical Starting Point

      by Ken Ham
      February 24, 2010
      Republished December 2, 2012

      (excerpts)

      A well-known atheist in the USA was interviewing me
      in my office concerning the creation/evolution issue
      and the book of Genesis.

      The conversation went something like this:

      > "So you admit that you start
      > with the Bible?"

      she said to me.

      > "Yes, of course,"

      I replied.

      > "And you are not prepared to change
      > anything the Bible states, are you?"

      she asked.

      > "No,"

      I said.

      > "The Bible's statements concerning creation,
      > the Flood, and so on are not subject to
      > change—God's Word cannot be altered."

      > "Ah,"

      she then responded,

      We all have presuppositions that determine how we approach
      evidence.

      The problem is that fallible humans, who don't know
      everything, who weren't present everywhere in the past,
      can come to totally wrong conclusions in trying to
      reconstruct the past.

      You can never know you have all relevant evidence.

      When visitors enter the Creation Museum in the Cincinnati
      area, one of the first exhibits they enter is called the
      Starting Points room.

      In this teaching exhibit, people are taught to understand
      that everyone has basic starting beliefs, or
      "presuppositions," which form their worldview (the way
      of thinking that they use to understand reality).

      The difference between me and the atheist who was
      interviewing me was that I have built my worldview
      on the biblical revelation, whereas she has built
      her worldview on her atheistic beliefs.

      We both approach the same evidence differently because
      we have different starting points.

      Now don't misunderstand me here.

      The Bible is not a scientific textbook, per se.

      The word science basically means "knowledge."

      Observational science, based on repeatable tests, is
      what builds technology. However, historical science
      (knowledge concerning the past to explain the present)
      is based on beliefs concerning history.

      The Bible is primarily a history book—an account of
      historical science, if you like—to enable us to think
      correctly concerning the origin of the universe, the
      meaning of life, the dilemma of sin, and the solution
      in Jesus Christ.

      A number of qualified scientists are not ashamed to
      stand before this world and boldly proclaim that their
      starting point is the Bible.

      Among them are scientists at the Answers in Genesis
      ministry and Creation Museum.

      As you read various articles by these godly people, you
      will see over and over again how observational science
      confirms that the Bible really is the right starting
      point and reveals the inconsistency of starting with
      secular ideas.

      Why is this ultimately important?

      If the history in the Bible concerning our origins
      were not true, then we would have no reason to trust
      the gospel message, which is based in that history.

      And the gospel is the heart of what Christians, such
      as those at Answers in Genesis, do - bring the saving
      message of the gospel to a fallen world so that people
      may be convicted of their sin and repent and be saved
      for eternity.

      ----------------------------------------------------
      ----------------------------------------------------
    • Todd Greene
      Ah, yes - presuppositions . Of course, not all presuppositions are equal (which is the fatal flaw of Ham s rhetoric). Furthermore, the presupposition of
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 2, 2012
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        Ah, yes - "presuppositions".

        Of course, not all presuppositions are equal (which is the fatal flaw of Ham's rhetoric).

        Furthermore, the presupposition of atheists is that ideas about the world must be grounded in reality itself - which is precisely what creates the 'grand divide' between atheists and religious believers. Atheists "believe in" reality. Religious believers believe in their religion. And we do thank people like Ken Ham for showing so starkly the contrast between the two different approaches.

        Chuckling,
        Todd Greene


        --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@...> wrote:
        > Ken Ham would do well to come out, come clean and explicitly admit that I have been accurately representing him; in light of how so many of his sympathizers have tried to take positions contrary to my representations.
        >
        > For now, however, Ken Ham's agents have made it clear that Ken Ham is not going to oblige my simple request and I am left to emphasize the implicit endorsement my representations have been given by Ken Ham.
        >
        > Today, Ken Ham has posted an older article again. It adds to the implicit endorsement by Ken Ham of my representations of him and his positions.
        >
        > ------------------------------------------
        >
        > http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v5/n2/starting-point
        >
        > Not Ashamed of a Biblical Starting Point
        >
        > by Ken Ham
        > February 24, 2010
        > Republished December 2, 2012
        >
        > (excerpts)
        >
        > A well-known atheist in the USA was interviewing me
        > in my office concerning the creation/evolution issue
        > and the book of Genesis.
        >
        > The conversation went something like this:
        >
        > > "So you admit that you start
        > > with the Bible?"
        >
        > she said to me.
        >
        > > "Yes, of course,"
        >
        > I replied.
        >
        > > "And you are not prepared to change
        > > anything the Bible states, are you?"
        >
        > she asked.
        >
        > > "No,"
        >
        > I said.
        >
        > > "The Bible's statements concerning creation,
        > > the Flood, and so on are not subject to
        > > change—God's Word cannot be altered."
        >
        > > "Ah,"
        >
        > she then responded,
        >
        > We all have presuppositions that determine how we approach
        > evidence.
        >
        > The problem is that fallible humans, who don't know
        > everything, who weren't present everywhere in the past,
        > can come to totally wrong conclusions in trying to
        > reconstruct the past.
        >
        > You can never know you have all relevant evidence.
        >
        > When visitors enter the Creation Museum in the Cincinnati
        > area, one of the first exhibits they enter is called the
        > Starting Points room.
        >
        > In this teaching exhibit, people are taught to understand
        > that everyone has basic starting beliefs, or
        > "presuppositions," which form their worldview (the way
        > of thinking that they use to understand reality).
        >
        > The difference between me and the atheist who was
        > interviewing me was that I have built my worldview
        > on the biblical revelation, whereas she has built
        > her worldview on her atheistic beliefs.
        >
        > We both approach the same evidence differently because
        > we have different starting points.
        >
        > Now don't misunderstand me here.
        >
        > The Bible is not a scientific textbook, per se.
        >
        > The word science basically means "knowledge."
        >
        > Observational science, based on repeatable tests, is
        > what builds technology. However, historical science
        > (knowledge concerning the past to explain the present)
        > is based on beliefs concerning history.
        >
        > The Bible is primarily a history book—an account of
        > historical science, if you like—to enable us to think
        > correctly concerning the origin of the universe, the
        > meaning of life, the dilemma of sin, and the solution
        > in Jesus Christ.
        >
        > A number of qualified scientists are not ashamed to
        > stand before this world and boldly proclaim that their
        > starting point is the Bible.
        >
        > Among them are scientists at the Answers in Genesis
        > ministry and Creation Museum.
        >
        > As you read various articles by these godly people, you
        > will see over and over again how observational science
        > confirms that the Bible really is the right starting
        > point and reveals the inconsistency of starting with
        > secular ideas.
        >
        > Why is this ultimately important?
        >
        > If the history in the Bible concerning our origins
        > were not true, then we would have no reason to trust
        > the gospel message, which is based in that history.
        >
        > And the gospel is the heart of what Christians, such
        > as those at Answers in Genesis, do - bring the saving
        > message of the gospel to a fallen world so that people
        > may be convicted of their sin and repent and be saved
        > for eternity.
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------------
        > ----------------------------------------------------
        >
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