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Re: An argument Jon Gary Williams should NOT use

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  • mathewmaury
    ... Todd s repeatedly uses a reference to Answers in Genesis to back his claim that transitional fossils exist. The citation was given (but not quoted) located
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 14, 2003
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      --- Todd S. Greene wrote:
      > Jon Gary Williams claim that "evolution does not fit the
      > evidence. The only place to go to find concrete, empirical
      > evidence for evolution would be the fossil record. However,
      > there is not a single case of a transitional form!"
      >
      > This argument is so bad that even the young earth
      > creationist group called Answers in Genesis has advised
      > fellow young earth creationists against using this argument

      Todd's repeatedly uses a reference to Answers in Genesis to
      back his claim that transitional fossils exist.

      The citation was given (but not quoted) located at
      http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp

      Curious to see why AIG would agree with Todd, I looked up
      the reference and found that AIG does NOT agree with Todd!
      AIG does NOT believe there are valid transitional fossils!!!

      What does AIG actually say about about not using the
      argument that `There are no transitional forms'? Reproduced
      below is the real response from AIG using Todd's reference:

      Since there are candidates, even though they are highly
      dubious, it's better to avoid possible comebacks by saying
      instead: `While Darwin predicted that the fossil record
      would show numerous transitional fossils, even 140 years
      later, all we have are a handful of disputable examples.'
    • rlbaty@webtv.net
      ... I anticipate that Todd will clarify the issue raised by Mathewmaury . Methinks Mathewmaury has misrepresented the point Todd was making and the point of
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 14, 2003
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        "Mathewmaury" wrote, in part:

        > Todd's repeatedly uses a reference
        > to Answers in Genesis to back his
        > claim that transitional fossils exist.

        > Curious to see why AIG would agree
        > with Todd, I looked up the reference
        > and found that AIG does NOT agree
        > with Todd!

        > Reproduced below is the real response
        > from AIG using Todd´s reference:

        > > Since there are candidates, even
        > > though they are highly dubious, it's
        > > better to avoid possible comebacks
        > > by saying instead: `While Darwin
        > > predicted that the fossil record would
        > > show numerous transitional fossils,
        > > even 140 years later, all we have are
        > > a handful of disputable examples.´

        I anticipate that Todd will clarify the issue raised by "Mathewmaury".
        Methinks "Mathewmaury" has misrepresented the point Todd was making and
        the point of agreement/disagreement.

        I found where Todd, in referencing the "transitional fossil" issue,
        wrote, in part:

        > This argument is so bad that even the
        > young earth creationist group called
        > Answers in Genesis has advised fellow
        > young earth creationists against using
        > this argument:

        I did not get the impression that AIG agreed with Todd on transitional
        fossils. I got the impression that AIG agreed with Todd, that the
        argument might best be avoided.

        I see an important difference as to whether Todd was claiming AIG was in
        agreement with him on transitional fossils or simply agreed with him, to
        the extent indicated, that the transitional fossil argument may not be
        any better than the moon dust argument of Bert Thompson, Ph.D.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty
      • Todd S. Greene
        ... Hi, Mat. I have not referred to AiG s comment as backing up the fact that transitional fossils exist. I have referred to their comment and stated that they
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 14, 2003
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          --- In Maury_and_Baty, "Mathew Maury" wrote (post #2974):
          > --- Todd S. Greene wrote:
          >> Jon Gary Williams claim that "evolution does not fit the
          >> evidence. The only place to go to find concrete, empirical
          >> evidence for evolution would be the fossil record. However,
          >> there is not a single case of a transitional form!"
          >>
          >> This argument is so bad that even the young earth
          >> creationist group called Answers in Genesis has advised
          >> fellow young earth creationists against using this argument
          >
          > Todd repeatedly uses a reference to Answers in Genesis to
          > back his claim that transitional fossils exist.
          >
          > The citation was given (but not quoted) located at
          > http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp

          Hi, Mat.

          I have not referred to AiG's comment as backing up the fact that
          transitional fossils exist. I have referred to their comment and
          stated that they recognize that the argument "there are no
          transitional fossils" is an argument that creationists should not
          use. In regard to backing up the fact that transitional fossils exist
          I have provided several online references that everyone can look at
          for themselves. I note here that you quite ignored those and then
          misrepresented my reference to AiG's comment.

          >
          > Curious to see why AIG would agree with Todd, I looked up
          > the reference and found that AIG does NOT agree with Todd!
          > AIG does NOT believe there are valid transitional fossils!!!

          AiG agrees with me that the argument "there are no transitional
          fossils" is an argument that creationists should not use.

          >
          > What does AIG actually say about about not using the
          > argument that 'There are no transitional forms'? Reproduced
          > below is the real response from AIG using Todd's reference:
          >
          > "Since there are candidates, even though they are highly
          > dubious, it's better to avoid possible comebacks by saying
          > instead: 'While Darwin predicted that the fossil record
          > would show numerous transitional fossils, even 140 years
          > later, all we have are a handful of disputable examples.'"

          Well, in fact, this AiG statement is wrong. But what else is new?

          Chuckling,
          Todd Greene
          http://www.creationism.cc/
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