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Atheist 101 Critical Thinking Exercise!

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  • rlbaty50
    See archives here and at the Democratic Underground (DU) link as follows: http://www.democraticunderground.com/121853942 Based on some problems one of my
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 12, 2012
      See archives here and at the Democratic Underground (DU) link as follows:

      http://www.democraticunderground.com/121853942

      Based on some problems one of my adversaries there had regarding Step #4 as presented to the DU, I have determined that it will be good to move Steps #4 and #5 up to Steps #2 and #3.

      As some may recognize, Step #1 and the new Steps #2 and #3 can be believed to be true without regard to the content of the argument; something my adversaries on the Democratic Underground could never bring themselves to demonstrate they understood.

      Here's the argument with the six questions (steps) following, including my position as to each question:

      MAJOR PREMISE:

      > IF (A) man was able to originate the
      > idea/concept of God through the power
      > of imagination, as opposed to reason
      > and/or revelation,
      >
      > THEN (B) man did originate the
      > idea/concept of God through the power
      > of imagination.

      MINOR PREMISE:

      > (A) Man was able to originate the
      > idea/concept of God through the power
      > of imagination, as opposed to reason
      > and/or revelation.

      CONCLUSION:

      > (B) Man did originate the idea/concept
      > of God through the power of imagination.

      Step #1:

      Do you believe the argument is so constructed that
      if its premises are true its conclusion will follow
      as true therefrom (i.e., that it is logically valid)?

      I do.

      Step #2:

      Do you believe that you can take the minor premise
      and conclusion of a logically valid modus ponens
      argument and construct the major premise therefrom?

      I do.

      Step #3:

      Do you believe that the major premise of the above
      argument is properly inferred and properly constructed
      from the minor premise and conclusion of the argument?

      I do.

      Step #4:

      Do you believe that atheism implies the truth of the
      conclusion and that atheists implicitly and/or
      explicitly believe the conclusion to be true?

      I do.

      Step #5:

      Do you believe that atheism implies the truth of the
      minor premise and that atheists implicitly and/or
      explicitly believe the minor premise to be true?

      I do.

      Step #6:

      Do you believe that atheism implies that the major
      premise is true and that atheists implicitly and/or
      explicitly believe the major premise to be true?

      I do.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty
    • bucksburg
      (Moderator s Note: I am pleased, Daniel, and look forward to further discussing areas of mutual interest regarding such matters. Alas, as you may have now
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 13, 2012
        (Moderator's Note: I am pleased, Daniel, and look forward to further discussing areas of mutual interest regarding such matters. Alas, as you may have now noticed, Sam Harris has joined Vic Stenger and others of similar pursuasion in running from my little exercise. -RLBaty)

        Okay, Robert, as you can see below, I'm finally getting past step #1.

        I trust you are pleased.

        Daniel

        --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@...> wrote:


        > Here's the argument with the six questions (steps) following, including my position as to each question:
        >
        > MAJOR PREMISE:
        >
        > > IF (A) man was able to originate the
        > > idea/concept of God through the power
        > > of imagination, as opposed to reason
        > > and/or revelation,
        > >
        > > THEN (B) man did originate the
        > > idea/concept of God through the power
        > > of imagination.
        >
        > MINOR PREMISE:
        >
        > > (A) Man was able to originate the
        > > idea/concept of God through the power
        > > of imagination, as opposed to reason
        > > and/or revelation.
        >
        > CONCLUSION:
        >
        > > (B) Man did originate the idea/concept
        > > of God through the power of imagination.
        >
        > Step #1:
        >
        > Do you believe the argument is so constructed that
        > if its premises are true its conclusion will follow
        > as true therefrom (i.e., that it is logically valid)?
        >
        > RB:I do.
        > DB: I do.

        > Step #2:
        >
        > Do you believe that you can take the minor premise
        > and conclusion of a logically valid modus ponens
        > argument and construct the major premise therefrom?
        >
        > RB:I do.
        > DB: I do.
        >
        > Step #3:
        >
        > Do you believe that the major premise of the above
        > argument is properly inferred and properly constructed
        > from the minor premise and conclusion of the argument?
        >
        > RB:I do.
        > DB: I do.
        >
        > Step #4:
        >
        > Do you believe that atheism implies the truth of the
        > conclusion and that atheists implicitly and/or
        > explicitly believe the conclusion to be true?
        >
        > RB:I do.
        > DB: I do.
        >
        > Step #5:
        >
        > Do you believe that atheism implies the truth of the
        > minor premise and that atheists implicitly and/or
        > explicitly believe the minor premise to be true?
        >
        > RB:I do.
        > DB: I do.
        >
        > Step #6:
        >
        > Do you believe that atheism implies that the major
        > premise is true and that atheists implicitly and/or
        > explicitly believe the major premise to be true?
        >
        > RB:I do.
        > DB: Not there quite yet.
      • PIASAN@aol.com
        With all the I do s are you guys getting married or something ?????
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 14, 2012
          With all the "I do's" are you guys getting married or something ?????
           
          ((((( grin )))))
          -----Original Message-----
          
          
          > > RB:I do. > DB: I do. > > RB:I do. > DB: I do. > > > RB:I do. > DB: I do. > > > RB:I do. > DB: I do. > > > RB:I do. > DB: I do. >
        • rlbaty50
          See original message of this thread at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29583 Additional Comments: Daniel Lasris, who recently posted some
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 23, 2012
            See original message of this thread at:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29583

            Additional Comments:

            Daniel Lasris, who recently posted some non-member messages here, happens to be quite atheist in his "worldview" and has considerable experience with my present, alleged theist, adversary Chad Elliott, the alleged author of the Elliott Argument.

            Daniel has various websites dealing with the issues as well as his unrelated business activities.

            Today, he posted advertisements for some articles of clothing reflecting what atheists believe about the origin of the idea/concept of God. I think it goes to confirming one or more of my claims regarding the argument I use in my Atheism 101 Critical Thinking Exercise.

            Here's a link and Daniel Lasris' argument as it appears prominently displayed on his clothing line:

            http://www.facebook.com/ConfrontingIgnoranceInReligion

            > Premises: 
            >
            > 1)
            >
            >> If God is Make Believe,
            >> then God does not exist
            >
            > 2)
            >
            >> God is Make Believe
            >
            > Conclusion:
            >
            >> God does not exist

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty
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