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Re: Nelta, Buff & Peter Frenzen!

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  • Todd S. Greene
    ... Hi, Nelta. ... You need to remove that from your home page since it is a lie. I discuss issues related to what *members of the Church of Christ themselves*
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 27, 2003
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      --- In Maury_and_Baty, Nelta Brock wrote (post #2917):
      > Hi Todd,
      >
      > First off I never try to "whitewash" myself. Next you know I have
      > always liked you. AND it was not your belief on the Old earth
      > stuff that caused the trouble. GAF is a Christian discussion list.
      > People were "rising up in arms" not because of your belief in the
      > old earth but in the fact that you are a proclaimed atheist. I
      > have always hoped you would "come back to the Lord" for I cannot
      > understand how anyone can once be in God's family and then
      > simply "throw it all away."
      >
      > I will admit that if so many were not objecting I would have left
      > things as they were. Jim Hopkins (the moderator and co-owner of
      > GAF,) who was out of town when all that happened, agreed with me
      > about taking you off the list because of its being a Christian
      > discussion list.
      >
      > Some where simply leaving and others going to do so. So look at it
      > this way. GAF is a place for members of the Church of Christ to
      > discuss their differences. Old earth is one of those differences,
      > and members of the Church of Christ have a right on there to
      > discuss that question. But what about an atheist who says he does
      > not believe in God NOR the inspiration of the scriptures being on
      > a Christian list when it had a purpose.....Church of Christ
      > members discussing their differences?
      >
      > Well, that is about all I can say about it, Todd. So is it my
      > fault? I think not.

      Hi, Nelta.

      This is what it says on the "GospelAdvocatingForum" home page:

      | This list is not limited to Church of Christ
      | members, but is open to EVERYONE who has a desire
      | to discuss the scriptures with others.

      You need to remove that from your home page since it is a lie.

      I discuss issues related to what *members of the Church of Christ
      themselves* teach about scripture. I purposely do not discuss atheism
      in your group.

      You caved in to naked prejudice. And the fact is, I've been a member
      of your group for a long time. The reason you were getting complaints
      recently was because *I was telling the truth* about a Christian was
      got caught lying, and people didn't want to hear this truth because
      the context happened to be that it was an atheist who had done the
      catching. They knew they had no basis on which to criticize what I
      was pointing out (since I was pointing out *the truth*), so they did
      the next best thing which was appeal to prejudice.

      Incidentally, I just took a look at Buff Scott's Grand Canyon web
      page (at 11/27/03 4:16 AM EST), and I see that the man is *still*
      lying about the National Geographic article. So I note here that you
      kick truth-telling atheists off of your list, but you allow blatantly
      lying Christians to stay on without saying one word on the matter.
      That *is* what is called a cover-up.

      Good show.

      Sincerely,
      Todd S. Greene
      http://www.creationism.cc/
    • rlbaty50
      ...   This post has to do with Rick Presley. Buff on his website indicates a personal relationship with Rick Presley. A quick check came up ... Sounds like
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 28, 2003
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        Here again is that link and quote from Buff's website:

        >
        > http://www.mindspring.com/~renewal/Canyon.html
        >
        > Mount St. Helens vs. The Grand Canyon
        >
        > Mount St. Helens erupted on May 18, 1980.
        >
        > Some years later, a monument scientist
        > examined the hardrock canyon, created
        > by the eruption, and remarked,
        >
        > "You'd expect a hardrock canyon to be
        > thousands, even hundreds of thousands
        > of years old. But this one was cut in less
        > than a decade." (National Geographic,
        > May, 2000).
        >
        > Rick Presley, a knowledgeable student
        > of geology, says, "Pretty convincing
        > evidence that the Grand Canyon didn't
        > take millions of years to form.

        > If you can research it out, Mount St.
        > Helens has proven to be a huge
        > geologic laboratory that has overturned
        > a great many uniformitarian
        > assumptions."
        > >
        > Those of you who believe the Grand
        > Canyon was formed over a period of
        > millions of years should re-examine
        > your evidence by examining the
        > canyon formed by the eruption of Mount
        > St. Helens. (If you're interested in viewing
        > my material on "God's Timetable For
        > Creation," click on "Creation" toward the
        > end of this feature.)
         
        This post has to do with Rick Presley. Buff on his website indicates
        a personal relationship with Rick Presley. A quick check came up
        with a Rick Presley who describes himself as follows:

        > I (Rick Presley) graduated from Indiana University in
        > 1987 with a Bachelor of Science in Education with a major
        > in biology. I taught biology, advanced biology, life science
        > and physical science in a Christian School in Columbus, Ohio
        > for five years. After the birth of my third child, I left
        > the teaching field and worked as a lab technician and
        > technical service representative in the chemical industry
        > for over seven years. In 2000, I left the chemical industry
        > to put both my biology and education backgrounds to work for
        > the American Red Cross, Biomedical Services as an Education
        > Coordinator.

        Sounds like the same Rick Presley Buff is making reference to, but
        that Rick Presley doesn't say anything about his expertise in
        geology; something Buff touts Rick Presley as having.

        I thought it kinda interesting.

        Buff uses Peter Frenzen, a professionally trained botanist, and then
        refers to Rick Presley for an interpretation of Peter's comment.

        One might wonder if Rick Presley would now endorse Buff's use of
        something Rick Presley is supposed to have said. One might wonder
        also if Buff might have added a word to two or more to Rick's
        comments; being that Buff has as much admitted to adding a word to
        Peter's comment.

        All things considered, I suspect that Peter might know more about
        whether or not Loowit Falls Canyon is a "hardrock canyon" than Rick
        Presley. I also supsect that Rick Presley's comments may not be
        anymore than what they appear than what Buff has made out of Peter's
        comment.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty
      • rlbaty50
        ... That came from: http://www.creationequation.com/archives/WherestheArchitect.htm Interestingly enough, Brad Harrub, Ph.D. was spotted having articles on
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 28, 2003
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          --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@w...>
          wrote, in part:

          > This post has to do with Rick Presley. Buff on his website
          > indicates a personal relationship with Rick Presley.

          > A quick check came up with a Rick Presley who describes
          > himself as follows:
          >
          > > I (Rick Presley) graduated from Indiana University in
          > > 1987 with a Bachelor of Science in Education with a major
          > > in biology. I taught biology, advanced biology, life science
          > > and physical science in a Christian School in Columbus, Ohio
          > > for five years. After the birth of my third child, I left
          > > the teaching field and worked as a lab technician and
          > > technical service representative in the chemical industry
          > > for over seven years. In 2000, I left the chemical industry
          > > to put both my biology and education backgrounds to work for
          > > the American Red Cross, Biomedical Services as an Education
          > > Coordinator.
          >
          That came from:

          http://www.creationequation.com/archives/WherestheArchitect.htm

          Interestingly enough, Brad Harrub, Ph.D. was spotted having articles
          on that website as well. Small world, huh?

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty
        • rlbaty50
          I thought I would just summarize a little for reference. Following my name below are Buff s website link and quote and two others I found making similar
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 3, 2003
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            I thought I would just summarize a little for reference. Following
            my name below are Buff's website link and quote and two others I
            found making similar claims. I guess if Buff were really the
            reformer he alleges, he would separate himself from his YEC herd on
            this one and get about correcting his false and misleading claims
            about Peter Frenzen and Loowit Canyon.

            You will note that only Buff has "one" in the quote allegedly coming
            from Peter Frenzen, though all three claim to get their quote from
            the same National Geographic article.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            ##################################

            http://www.mindspring.com/~renewal/Canyon.html
            >
            > Mount St. Helens vs. The Grand Canyon
            >
            > Mount St. Helens erupted on May 18, 1980.
            >
            > Some years later, a monument scientist
            > examined the hardrock canyon, created
            > by the eruption, and remarked,
            >
            > "You'd expect a hardrock canyon to be
            > thousands, even hundreds of thousands
            > of years old. But this one was cut in less
            > than a decade." (National Geographic,
            > May, 2000).
            >
            > Rick Presley, a knowledgeable student
            > of geology, says, "Pretty convincing
            > evidence that the Grand Canyon didn't
            > take millions of years to form.
            >
            > If you can research it out, Mount St.
            > Helens has proven to be a huge
            > geologic laboratory that has overturned
            > a great many uniformitarian
            > assumptions."
            >
            > Those of you who believe the Grand
            > Canyon was formed over a period of
            > millions of years should re-examine
            > your evidence by examining the
            > canyon formed by the eruption of Mount
            > St. Helens. (If you're interested in viewing
            > my material on "God's Timetable For
            > Creation," click on "Creation" toward the
            > end of this feature.)

            #########################################

            http://www.creationism.org/caesar/slow_mtn.htm

            > The May 2000 issue of National Geographic featured
            > an article on this change of heart, referring to the
            > Mt. St. Helens aftermath as "a crucible of creation"
            > (Findley 112). The article, entitled "Nature on Fast
            > Forward," noted that the rapid recovery of plant and
            > animal life in the blast area "is a miniature fast-
            > forward version of what happened over vast time frames
            > of our planet's infancy, from primordial soup to the
            > first wind-borne seeds" (Ibid.). Despite the blatant
            > old-earth bias exhibited in that statement, the article
            > continued to report how surprised scientists were at
            > the rapid recovery of the blast area:

            > > `All of us were surprised at the rate at which this
            > > landscape was colonized again,' says ecologist David
            > > Wood. `We were thinking, Gosh, how long is it going to
            > > be before anything comes back here?'

            > Within just a few years scientists found flora and fauna
            > pioneering in the niches created by the eruption's various
            > geologic disturbances (Ibid. 114 [italics original]).

            > The Mt. St. Helens explosion not only demonstrated the
            > scientific plausibility of an extremely rapid post-flood
            > recovery of plants and animals, but of a catastrophic
            > formation of geological features as well.

            > The article quoted monument scientist Peter Franzen, who
            > commented on the fact that Loowit Falls reshaped the north
            > slope of the volcano into a canyon with surprising rapidity:

            > > "You'd expect a hardrock canyon to be thousands, even
            > > hundreds of thousands of years old. But this was cut in
            > > less than a decade" (Ibid. 121).

            ########################################

            http://www.nwcreation.net/mtsthelens.html

            > Loowit Falls Canyon (pictured at right)

            > > "Spilling from the crater, Loowit Falls reshapes the
            > > north slope of the volcano. `You'd expect a hardrock
            > > canyon to be thousands, even hundreds of thousands of
            > > years old,' says Peter Frenzen, monument scientist,
            > > `but this was cut in less than a decade.'
            > > "National Geographic, May 2000, p. 121.
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