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Allen Leigh v. Robert Baty on Mormonism - The Polls!

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  • rlbaty50
    I ran across Allen at: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-02/at-church-with-romney-mormons-cheer-attention-to-their-faith He has a blog on his Mormonism
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 3, 2012
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      I ran across Allen at:

      http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-02/at-church-with-romney-mormons-cheer-attention-to-their-faith

      He has a blog on his Mormonism at:

      http://mormonsite.wordpress.com/

      He wrote a book on his Mormonism which is accessible at:

      http://mormonsite.wordpress.com/book/

      Here's our exchange from the Business Week website above:

      (1)

      From: Allen Leigh
      Date: Monday, September 3, 2012

      Allen Leigh, 1 hour ago

      A lady called the GOP number at CSPAN and
      gave a very distorted understanding of the
      Mormon belief in God.

      Whether he wins or loses the Presidency, I
      hope Mitt's candidacy will help non-Mormons
      better understand what we believe.

      Mormon.org is a good place to start to
      learn what Mormon's believe.

      (2)

      From: Robert Baty
      Date: Monday, September 3, 2012

      Give us an example, Allen Leigh!

      Do you believe that:

      > God revealed, personally, directly,
      > and literally, the doctrine of plural
      > marriage to Joseph Smith?

      That's just one of 5, simple, factual claims
      that goes to the fundamentals of what it is
      that makes a Mormon a Mormon.

      My experience is that Mormons spend a lot of
      time trying to drive traffic to those Mormon
      webpages and get folks to search and search
      for answers to their questions.

      Allen,

      Why not just give us a simple "yes" or "no"
      regarding the above.

      Most Mormons I have asked have not been willing
      to "give an answer". I suspect some do not
      believe it, though it is a claim taken from one
      of your "official" Mormon websites.

      I wonder if Mitt actually believes it or if he
      and his wife are more the "cultural Mormon" types.

      ----------------------------------------------------

      Here's the complete Mormon Poll #1 that I may try to get Allen to complete; maybe then he will complete Mormon Poll #2:

      MORMON POLL #1:

      > (A) God revealed the doctrine of
      > plural marriage to Joseph Smith?
      >
      >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      >>
      >> Allen Leigh (Mormon) - ???

      > (B) God commanded Joseph Smith
      > to live it?
      >
      >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      >>
      >> Allen Leigh (Mormon) - ???

      > (C) Joseph Smith taught the
      > doctrine to some associates?
      >
      >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
      >>
      >> Allen Leigh (Mormon) - ???

      > (D) Joseph Smith and a number of
      > his associates entered into plural
      > marriages?
      >
      >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
      >>
      >> Allen Leigh (Mormon) - ???

      > (E) Joseph Smith and his associates
      > needed and received personal inspiration
      > from God to help them enter in to
      > plural marriages?
      >
      >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      >>
      >> Allen Leigh (Mormon) - ???

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty
    • rlbaty50
      http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-02/at-church-with-romney-mormons-cheer-attention-to-their-faith (3) From: Robert Baty Date: Monday, September 3, 2012
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 3, 2012
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        http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-02/at-church-with-romney-mormons-cheer-attention-to-their-faith

        (3)

        From: Robert Baty
        Date: Monday, September 3, 2012

        Allen,

        If you would like to come out and discuss what
        you, a Mormon, believe about certain fundamental
        matters, I have turned a light on for you at my
        place, including a brief introduction, references
        to this place and your place and your book on
        Mormonism, and a copy of my Mormon Poll #1 for
        you to complete if you are so inclined.

        Here's the link to where the light has been left
        on for you:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/28483

        See you there, or not!

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      • rlbaty50
        http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-02/at-church-with-romney-mormons-cheer-attention-to-their-faith (4) From: Robert Baty Date: September 4, 2012 I notice
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 4, 2012
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          http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-02/at-church-with-romney-mormons-cheer-attention-to-their-faith

          (4)

          From: Robert Baty
          Date: September 4, 2012

          I notice that the Mormon PR website and activists have targeted this article for attention by its volunteers, some of whom, in spirit, may have already made their appearances here.

          Here's the link to the call to arms as to this article by the Mormon Voices organization:

          http://mormonvoices.org/1624/3-september-2012

          The invitation remains outstanding for Mormons to "give an answer" to some simple, factual claims regarding what it is that makes Mormons Mormons.

          See the messages at the following links for the invitation to you as well as Allen Leigh who has already showed up here:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/28483

          and

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/28484



          (5)

          From: Robert Baty
          Date: September 4, 2012

          It's not uncommon with all sorts of organizations, and so it is with the Mormons; they have people that go about the Internet trying to put the smiley face on Mormonism.

          Whether direct volunteers or only in spirit, consider the call to arms by Mormon Voices as expressed on their website as you observe Mormon antics on the Internet message boards:

          http://mormonvoices.org/

          > Welcome to MormonVoices.
          >
          > Our volunteers respond to public
          > discussions and comments from
          > public figures that misrepresent
          > The Church of Jesus Christ of
          > Latter-day Saints.
          >
          > We encourage and direct
          > Mormons to get involved
          > in online discussions and thereby
          > help shape the public understanding
          > and perceptions of the Church.
          >
          > Please join your voice with ours,
          > and become a member of MormonVoices.

          And, typically, they don't really like to get involved in two-way discussions of such fundamental matters as what it is that makes Mormon Mormons; as my Mormon Poll exercise has helped to illustrate.

          They have other goals and are generally very good, in my opinion, in staying their course and evading more open, honest considerations of certain fundamental matters.

          As Allen Leigh illustrates so often in his writings; they are "sent" to "tell/teach" and not to "hear/learn".

          One of their own, Sergio Roa Prado, recently put it this way:

          > From: Sergio Roa Prado (LDS Apologist)
          > Time/Date: 6:45 PM on February 10, 2012
          >
          > My authority came from God who
          > gave authority to Jesus,
          > to Peter,
          > to Joseph Smith,
          > and finally to me.
          >
          > This is called authority line.

          and this:

          > From: Sergio Roa Prado (LDS Apologist)
          > Time/Date: 10:01 AM on February 17, 2012
          >
          > I win.
          > I have authority.
          > I have authority line, and
          > you have not.

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