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Re: 150 +/- Mormons Resign En Masse - and the Mormon Poll!

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  • Todd Greene
    Mormon Numbers Not Adding Up by Joanna Brooks (Religion Dispatches, 2/2/2012)
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 1, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Mormon Numbers Not Adding Up
      by Joanna Brooks
      (Religion Dispatches, 2/2/2012)
      http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/culture/5611/mormon_numbers_not_adding_up/

      Why Mormons flee their church
      By Carrie Sheffield
      (USA Today, 6/17/2012)
      http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-06-17/mormon-lds-ex-mormon/55654242/1



      --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@...> wrote:
      >
      > http://www.christianpost.com/news/mormons-resign-en-masse-in-public-77497/
      >
      > Mormons Resign En Masse in Public
      >
      > By Anugrah Kumar
      > Christian Post Contributor
      > July 1, 2012
      >
      > About 150 Mormons participated in a mass resignation ceremony and signed a "Declaration of Independence from Mormonism" in Utah, the state where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based, on Saturday.
      >
      > The group of Mormons, from Utah, Arizona, Idaho and a few other states, flashed signs saying,
      >
      > > "Finally ExMormon,"
      > > "Research the church" and
      > > "Transcend Mormonism,"
      >
      > as they hiked Ensign Peak in Salt Lake City.
      >
      > > "This feels awesome,"
      >
      > Reuters quoted Alison Lucas, from West Jordan, Utah, as saying.
      >
      > > "I don't know if I would have had
      > > the courage except in a group."
      >
      > The reasons behind the Mormons' exit included doctrines, inconsistencies in how the LDS narrates its own history, and its rejection of gay marriage.
      >
      > They hiked a peak where former church president Brigham Young once surveyed the spot where his Latter-day Saints would build a city in 1847.
      >
      > > "It's been a hard journey and
      > > this is a symbolic end,"
      >
      > event organizer Zilpha Larsen was quoted as saying.
      >
      > > "I just hope that it boosts people
      > > up and helps them feel more comfortable
      > > in their decision."
      >
      > Michelle Hobbs, a 40-year-old Salt Lake City resident, told The Salt Lake Tribune she had been "very faithful" all her life but after she researched on the church, she began to doubt the timeline of events in the Book of Mormon.
      >
      > > "It's just all man-made.
      > > It's very disappointing,"
      >
      > she said.
      >
      > Some feared their decision could cost them social or business connections they got through the LDS.
      >
      > > "It's hard,
      > > so we have to be very careful,"
      >
      > participant Robin Hansen was quoted as saying. He said he was leaving over a "culture of abuse" Mormons promote by stressing on obedience.
      >
      > Michael Purdy, an LDS spokesman, responded to the mass resignation, saying,
      >
      > > "People make their own decisions about
      > > the direction they will follow in life."
      >
      > There are very few who take this action, he told Reuters, but
      >
      > > "it is sad to see someone choose to leave.
      > > We wish them well."
      >
      > Mormons deviate from Christianity's central tenets – the Trinity, the belief in one God in three Persons.
      >
      > They also believe Joseph Smith Jr. is the first latter-day prophet who restored the original Christian church in the 19th century in America.
      >
      > They believe the entire structure of Christian orthodoxy affirmed by the post-apostolic church is corrupt and false. Additionally, Latter-day Saints are often criticized for their belief in "divine" books of scripture, aside from the Bible, including the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.
      >
      > Readers' Comments:
      >
      > (1)
      >
      > From: NonAnonymous (aka Robert Baty)
      > Time/Date: 1:29 PM EDT on July 01, 2012
      >
      > I am currently taking a poll which, in part, allows Mormons to tell personally what they believe regarding certain, fundamental, historic, important claims taken from an "official" Mormon website.
      >
      > Many Mormons are refusing to participate, but a few have. If you are a Mormon, please add your name and a simple "yes" or "no" to the following claims indicating whether or not you believe them.
      >
      > Here are the current results:
      >
      > Poll Issues:
      >
      > > (A) God revealed the doctrine of
      > > plural marriage to Joseph Smith?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > > (B) God commanded Joseph Smith
      > > to live it?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > > (C) Joseph Smith taught the
      > > doctrine to some associates?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > > (D) Joseph Smith and a number of
      > > his associates entered into plural
      > > marriages?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > > (E) Joseph Smith and his associates
      > > needed and received personal inspiration
      > > from God to help them enter in to
      > > plural marriages?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > Issues Taken From "Official" Mormon Webpage at:
      >
      > http://classic.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=16&locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
      >
      > Sincerely,
      > Robert Baty
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/
      >
      > (2)
      >
      > From: Sergio Roa Prado (Mormon Apologist)
      > Time/Date: 2:26 PM EDT on July 01, 2012
      >
      > The Christianity deviate from Biblical doctrines,
      > to doctrines that came from a special meetings,
      > called in Latin "sinudus" , when all the apostles
      > were die, there were only bishops , local autorities.
      >
      > The Bishop of Rome became the head of Catholic Church,
      > the Bisshop of Constantinoplae , the head of Ortodox.
      >
      > (3)
      >
      > From: NonAnonymous (aka Robert Baty)
      > Time/Date: 2:34 PM EDT on July 01, 2012
      >
      > To Sergio Roa Prado -
      >
      > I do wish you and yours would quit running from
      > taking part in my Mormon poll.
      >
      > Just add your name and a simple "yes" or "no"
      > indicating whether you believe the "official" Mormon
      > claims:
      >
      > > (A) God revealed the doctrine of
      > > plural marriage to Joseph Smith?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > > (B) God commanded Joseph Smith
      > > to live it?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > > (C) Joseph Smith taught the
      > > doctrine to some associates?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > > (D) Joseph Smith and a number of
      > > his associates entered into plural
      > > marriages?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > > (E) Joseph Smith and his associates
      > > needed and received personal inspiration
      > > from God to help them enter in to
      > > plural marriages?
      > >
      > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
      > >>
      > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
      > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
      >
      > Issues Taken From "Official" Mormon Webpage at:
      >
      > http://classic.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=16&locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
      >
      > Sincerely,
      > Robert Baty
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------
      > ----------------------------------------------
      >
    • Ray Ausban
      I remember the projection of over 250 million LDS! I thought it was fantasy then and now! I think we can all agree, the LDS religion is one of the most
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 1, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        I remember the projection of over 250 million LDS! I thought it was fantasy then and now! I think we can all agree, the LDS religion is one of the most difficult to accept and to live. If Romney gets elected and is a good President there may be a bump up in the baptism rate. I think it will take another 45 years to add 15 million more members. As the church gets bigger I expect the activity rate to drop to around 25% to fall in line with Jesus' parable of the sower.
         
        When the global disasters start, I think many more people will turn to God in general and then the baptism rate will take a jump. I don't expect those things to start before 2029.
         
        Right now, the atheists should be very happy! Europe is eroding into atheism at an astonishing rate and the US will follow during the next two decades.
         
        If atheists become the majority, what type of political society do they want? Europe seems to want socialism, as does Obama. Is that what atheists want, or do they still want old style Marxism?

        From: Todd Greene <greeneto@...>
        To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2012 1:47 PM
        Subject: [M & B] Re: 150 +/- Mormons Resign En Masse - and the Mormon Poll!

         
        Mormon Numbers Not Adding Up
        by Joanna Brooks
        (Religion Dispatches, 2/2/2012)
        http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/culture/5611/mormon_numbers_not_adding_up/

        Why Mormons flee their church
        By Carrie Sheffield
        (USA Today, 6/17/2012)
        http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-06-17/mormon-lds-ex-mormon/55654242/1

        --- In mailto:Maury_and_Baty%40yahoogroups.com, "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@...> wrote:
        >
        > http://www.christianpost.com/news/mormons-resign-en-masse-in-public-77497/
        >
        > Mormons Resign En Masse in Public
        >
        > By Anugrah Kumar
        > Christian Post Contributor
        > July 1, 2012
        >
        > About 150 Mormons participated in a mass resignation ceremony and signed a "Declaration of Independence from Mormonism" in Utah, the state where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based, on Saturday.
        >
        > The group of Mormons, from Utah, Arizona, Idaho and a few other states, flashed signs saying,
        >
        > > "Finally ExMormon,"
        > > "Research the church" and
        > > "Transcend Mormonism,"
        >
        > as they hiked Ensign Peak in Salt Lake City.
        >
        > > "This feels awesome,"
        >
        > Reuters quoted Alison Lucas, from West Jordan, Utah, as saying.
        >
        > > "I don't know if I would have had
        > > the courage except in a group."
        >
        > The reasons behind the Mormons' exit included doctrines, inconsistencies in how the LDS narrates its own history, and its rejection of gay marriage.
        >
        > They hiked a peak where former church president Brigham Young once surveyed the spot where his Latter-day Saints would build a city in 1847.
        >
        > > "It's been a hard journey and
        > > this is a symbolic end,"
        >
        > event organizer Zilpha Larsen was quoted as saying.
        >
        > > "I just hope that it boosts people
        > > up and helps them feel more comfortable
        > > in their decision."
        >
        > Michelle Hobbs, a 40-year-old Salt Lake City resident, told The Salt Lake Tribune she had been "very faithful" all her life but after she researched on the church, she began to doubt the timeline of events in the Book of Mormon.
        >
        > > "It's just all man-made.
        > > It's very disappointing,"
        >
        > she said.
        >
        > Some feared their decision could cost them social or business connections they got through the LDS.
        >
        > > "It's hard,
        > > so we have to be very careful,"
        >
        > participant Robin Hansen was quoted as saying. He said he was leaving over a "culture of abuse" Mormons promote by stressing on obedience.
        >
        > Michael Purdy, an LDS spokesman, responded to the mass resignation, saying,
        >
        > > "People make their own decisions about
        > > the direction they will follow in life."
        >
        > There are very few who take this action, he told Reuters, but
        >
        > > "it is sad to see someone choose to leave.
        > > We wish them well."
        >
        > Mormons deviate from Christianity's central tenets – the Trinity, the belief in one God in three Persons.
        >
        > They also believe Joseph Smith Jr. is the first latter-day prophet who restored the original Christian church in the 19th century in America.
        >
        > They believe the entire structure of Christian orthodoxy affirmed by the post-apostolic church is corrupt and false. Additionally, Latter-day Saints are often criticized for their belief in "divine" books of scripture, aside from the Bible, including the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.
        >
        > Readers' Comments:
        >
        > (1)
        >
        > From: NonAnonymous (aka Robert Baty)
        > Time/Date: 1:29 PM EDT on July 01, 2012
        >
        > I am currently taking a poll which, in part, allows Mormons to tell personally what they believe regarding certain, fundamental, historic, important claims taken from an "official" Mormon website.
        >
        > Many Mormons are refusing to participate, but a few have. If you are a Mormon, please add your name and a simple "yes" or "no" to the following claims indicating whether or not you believe them.
        >
        > Here are the current results:
        >
        > Poll Issues:
        >
        > > (A) God revealed the doctrine of
        > > plural marriage to Joseph Smith?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > > (B) God commanded Joseph Smith
        > > to live it?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > > (C) Joseph Smith taught the
        > > doctrine to some associates?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > > (D) Joseph Smith and a number of
        > > his associates entered into plural
        > > marriages?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > > (E) Joseph Smith and his associates
        > > needed and received personal inspiration
        > > from God to help them enter in to
        > > plural marriages?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > Issues Taken From "Official" Mormon Webpage at:
        >
        > http://classic.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=16&locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Robert Baty
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/
        >
        > (2)
        >
        > From: Sergio Roa Prado (Mormon Apologist)
        > Time/Date: 2:26 PM EDT on July 01, 2012
        >
        > The Christianity deviate from Biblical doctrines,
        > to doctrines that came from a special meetings,
        > called in Latin "sinudus" , when all the apostles
        > were die, there were only bishops , local autorities.
        >
        > The Bishop of Rome became the head of Catholic Church,
        > the Bisshop of Constantinoplae , the head of Ortodox.
        >
        > (3)
        >
        > From: NonAnonymous (aka Robert Baty)
        > Time/Date: 2:34 PM EDT on July 01, 2012
        >
        > To Sergio Roa Prado -
        >
        > I do wish you and yours would quit running from
        > taking part in my Mormon poll.
        >
        > Just add your name and a simple "yes" or "no"
        > indicating whether you believe the "official" Mormon
        > claims:
        >
        > > (A) God revealed the doctrine of
        > > plural marriage to Joseph Smith?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > > (B) God commanded Joseph Smith
        > > to live it?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > > (C) Joseph Smith taught the
        > > doctrine to some associates?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > > (D) Joseph Smith and a number of
        > > his associates entered into plural
        > > marriages?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - Yes
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > > (E) Joseph Smith and his associates
        > > needed and received personal inspiration
        > > from God to help them enter in to
        > > plural marriages?
        > >
        > >> Robert Baty (non-Mormon) - No
        > >>
        > >> Ray Ausban (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Linda Fiatoa (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Ryan Heath (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> George de Metz (Mormon) - Yes
        > >> Aaron Ulrich (Mormon) - Yes
        >
        > Issues Taken From "Official" Mormon Webpage at:
        >
        > http://classic.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=16&locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Robert Baty
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------
        > ----------------------------------------------
        >



      • rlbaty50
        ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/27617 ... It seems to me that there is a very good chance of Romney being our next President. In that
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 1, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/27617
          Ray Ausban wrote, in part:

          > If Romney gets elected and is a good President 
          > there may be a bump up in the baptism rate.

          It seems to me that there is a very good chance of Romney being our next President.

          In that context, and in light of some of the discussions I have seen elsewhere, I am thinking that the election cycle now under way as well as his resulting presidency may just have a negative affect on Mormon membership if, as some suppose, the investigation of the religion will get considerably more scrutiny than were it otherwise.

          I am also wondering whether Romney may come out looking more like a "cultural Mormon" than a "convicted Mormon" regarding so many of the things that distinguish Mormons from other religions.

          Do you think anyone will eventually be able to get Romney to answer to my poll issues?????

          Just some of my speculation on that matter.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.