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Doug10399 (aka Doug Mook, Douglas Mook, Douglas G. Mook)!

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  • rlbaty50
    Doug is my latest victim on the Human-NonModerated list. Doug was one of those blundering about the Lenny Flank DebunkCreation YAHOO! discussion list. An
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 31, 2011
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      Doug is my latest victim on the Human-NonModerated list.

      Doug was one of those blundering about the Lenny Flank DebunkCreation YAHOO! discussion list. An apparent atheist, but like many young-earth creation-science theists, Doug couldn't handle even the simplest issues such as the claim that my "Goliath of GRAS" argument is so constructed that if its premises are true its conclusion will follow as true therefrom.

      That was some time ago.

      See:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DebunkCreation/message/113936

      Most recently, Doug came out of hiding on the Human-NonModerated list to try and take up where the other Human-NonModerated faithful fell down; the 7 propositions.

      Doug further showed himself unwilling to engage in an open, honest, good faith discussion of those issues; refusing even to officially enter his position on his own, explicit affirmations and the proposition dealing with a rule for the exercise.

      Doug, having failed in his efforts, decided to just quit.

      Doug appears to be a well-educated, otherwise competent fellow; possibly even the same Doug who is a professor emeritus at the University of Virginia and author of several books.

      It may also be the case that he shares some other characteristics with Francis Mortyn (e.g., sick, old man).

      Here's the links to and unofficial texts of the propositions Doug refused to openly, honestly deal with as proposed in the exercise. Also included are the unofficial respondent positions:

      Proposition #1:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711276

      > A tree falling in the wilderness with no
      > person around to hear it creates no sound.
      >
      >> I think that is true.
      >>
      >>> RLBaty
      >>> ??????
      >>
      >> I do NOT think that is true.
      >>
      >>> ??????
      >>> ??????

      Proposition #2:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711259

      > An ambiguous sentence is unintelligible, and
      > to write an ambiguous sentence is to make a
      > mistake.
      >
      > (See: http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/message/184936 )
      >
      >> I think that is true.
      >>
      >>> Doug10399
      >>> ??????
      >>
      >> I do NOT think that is true.
      >>
      >>> RLBaty
      >>> ??????

      Proposition #3:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711086

      > Carl Kaun has good reason to believe that
      > Robert Baty is criminally guilty of making
      > unauthorized disclosures of IRS materials.
      >
      >> I think that is true.
      >>
      >>> ??????
      >>> ??????
      >>
      >> I do NOT think that is true.
      >>
      >>> RLBaty
      >>> ??????

      Proposition #4:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711061

      > Robert Baty has good reason to believe
      > that Carl Kaun was arrested for the crime
      > of driving while under the influence of
      > alcohol in 2011.
      >
      >> I think that is true.
      >>
      >>> RLBaty
      >>> Paul Harrison
      >>> ??????
      >>
      >> I do NOT think that is true.
      >>
      >>> ??????
      >>> ??????

      Proposition #5:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711101

      > Francis/Frank Mortyn has good reason to
      > believe that Robert Baty is criminally
      > guilty of stalking Harvard University
      > student Charlene Mortyn.
      >
      >> I think that is true.
      >>
      >>> ??????
      >>> ??????
      >>
      >> I do NOT think that is true.
      >>
      >>> RLBaty
      >>> ??????

      Proposition #6:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711036

      > The L.A. Times at
      >
      http://articles.latimes.com/1989-06-18/local/me-3721_1_libel-suit-circumcision-h\
      umanist
      >
      > has reported that Francis (aka Frank) Mortyn
      > was known to be a "coward and a bully who
      > attempts to get his way through intimidation",
      > and Francis (aka Frank) Mortyn has charged
      > Robert Baty, at
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/message/184164 ,
      >
      > with being a "stalker" of Charlene Mortyn
      > and that Robert Baty should be reported to
      > authorities for criminal prosecution.
      >
      >> I think that is true.
      >>
      >>> RLBaty
      >>> ??????
      >>
      >> I do NOT think that is true.
      >>
      >>> ??????
      >>> ??????

      Proposition #7:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711204

      > For purposes of propositions #3, #4, #5,
      > and #6, with issues involving Carl Kaun,
      > Robert Baty, and Francis Mortyn, it will
      > be determined that if one does not think
      > the poll statement is true, then that
      > person does not think the poll statement
      > is true.
      >
      >> I think that is reasonable.
      >>
      >>> RLBaty
      >>> ??????
      >>
      >> I do NOT think that is reasonable.
      >>
      >>> Doug10399
      >>> ??????

      The official poll exercise remains open on the Human-NonModerated website and I will try to continue to monitor any activity there.

      Otherwise, my ministry's work there appears to be finally wrapping up and I expect to cease my active participation there.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty
    • rlbaty50
      ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/message/152170 ... Go figure! The bigger they are, the... Sincerely, Robert Baty ... rlbaty50
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 31, 2011
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        Here's one of Doug's messages tending to confirm my earlier report as to his educational attainments:

        --- In Human-nonmoderated@yahoogroups.com,
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/message/152170
        doug10399@... wrote:

        > Date: April 7, 2011
        >
        > I (Doug10399) taught at UVa for
        > a number of years before retiring
        > to NYC and El Paso, in that order.

        Go figure! The bigger they are, the...

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty

        --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com,
        "rlbaty50" <rlbaty@...> wrote:

        Doug is my latest victim on the Human-NonModerated list.

        Doug was one of those blundering about the Lenny Flank DebunkCreation YAHOO!
        discussion list. An apparent atheist, but like many young-earth
        creation-science theists, Doug couldn't handle even the simplest issues such as
        the claim that my "Goliath of GRAS" argument is so constructed that if its
        premises are true its conclusion will follow as true therefrom.

        That was some time ago.

        See:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DebunkCreation/message/113936

        Most recently, Doug came out of hiding on the Human-NonModerated list to try and
        take up where the other Human-NonModerated faithful fell down; the 7
        propositions.

        Doug further showed himself unwilling to engage in an open, honest, good faith
        discussion of those issues; refusing even to officially enter his position on
        his own, explicit affirmations and the proposition dealing with a rule for the
        exercise.

        Doug, having failed in his efforts, decided to just quit.

        Doug appears to be a well-educated, otherwise competent fellow; possibly even
        the same Doug who is a professor emeritus at the University of Virginia and
        author of several books.

        It may also be the case that he shares some other characteristics with Francis
        Mortyn (e.g., sick, old man).

        Here's the links to and unofficial texts of the propositions Doug refused to
        openly, honestly deal with as proposed in the exercise. Also included are the
        unofficial respondent positions:

        Proposition #1:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711276

        > A tree falling in the wilderness with no
        > person around to hear it creates no sound.
        >
        >> I think that is true.
        >>
        >>> RLBaty
        >>> ??????
        >>
        >> I do NOT think that is true.
        >>
        >>> ??????
        >>> ??????

        Proposition #2:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711259

        > An ambiguous sentence is unintelligible, and
        > to write an ambiguous sentence is to make a
        > mistake.
        >
        > (See: http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/message/184936 )
        >
        >> I think that is true.
        >>
        >>> Doug10399
        >>> ??????
        >>
        >> I do NOT think that is true.
        >>
        >>> RLBaty
        >>> ??????

        Proposition #3:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711086

        > Carl Kaun has good reason to believe that
        > Robert Baty is criminally guilty of making
        > unauthorized disclosures of IRS materials.
        >
        >> I think that is true.
        >>
        >>> ??????
        >>> ??????
        >>
        >> I do NOT think that is true.
        >>
        >>> RLBaty
        >>> ??????

        Proposition #4:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711061

        > Robert Baty has good reason to believe
        > that Carl Kaun was arrested for the crime
        > of driving while under the influence of
        > alcohol in 2011.
        >
        >> I think that is true.
        >>
        >>> RLBaty
        >>> Paul Harrison
        >>> ??????
        >>
        >> I do NOT think that is true.
        >>
        >>> ??????
        >>> ??????

        Proposition #5:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711101

        > Francis/Frank Mortyn has good reason to
        > believe that Robert Baty is criminally
        > guilty of stalking Harvard University
        > student Charlene Mortyn.
        >
        >> I think that is true.
        >>
        >>> ??????
        >>> ??????
        >>
        >> I do NOT think that is true.
        >>
        >>> RLBaty
        >>> ??????

        Proposition #6:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711036

        > The L.A. Times at
        >
        http://articles.latimes.com/1989-06-18/local/me-3721_1_libel-suit-circumcision-h\
        \
        umanist
        >
        > has reported that Francis (aka Frank) Mortyn
        > was known to be a "coward and a bully who
        > attempts to get his way through intimidation",
        > and Francis (aka Frank) Mortyn has charged
        > Robert Baty, at
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/message/184164 ,
        >
        > with being a "stalker" of Charlene Mortyn
        > and that Robert Baty should be reported to
        > authorities for criminal prosecution.
        >
        >> I think that is true.
        >>
        >>> RLBaty
        >>> ??????
        >>
        >> I do NOT think that is true.
        >>
        >>> ??????
        >>> ??????

        Proposition #7:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711204

        > For purposes of propositions #3, #4, #5,
        > and #6, with issues involving Carl Kaun,
        > Robert Baty, and Francis Mortyn, it will
        > be determined that if one does not think
        > the poll statement is true, then that
        > person does not think the poll statement
        > is true.
        >
        >> I think that is reasonable.
        >>
        >>> RLBaty
        >>> ??????
        >>
        >> I do NOT think that is reasonable.
        >>
        >>> Doug10399
        >>> ??????

        The official poll exercise remains open on the Human-NonModerated website and I
        will try to continue to monitor any activity there.

        Otherwise, my ministry's work there appears to be finally wrapping up and I
        expect to cease my active participation there.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty
      • rlbaty50
        ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human_ism/message/47762 Doug10399@... wrote: Date: July 27, 2003 Subject: Confessions of a recovering academic Let s see...
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 31, 2011
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          That my 7 simple, little propositions were too much for Doug to openly, honestly deal with is made all the more significant when one considers Doug's own account of his life; as of July 2003:

          ---------------------------------------------------------

          --- In Human_ism@yahoogroups.com,
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human_ism/message/47762
          Doug10399@... wrote:

          Date: July 27, 2003

          Subject: Confessions of a recovering academic

          Let's see...

          The first thing I can remember happened in fifth grade,
          when I became a Bright as a result of a class in religion.

          (Those who have heard this story, forgive me.)

          This was in Dayton, Ohio, and the school board decided
          we should have an hour of religious instruction a week.

          Today that would have to be taken to court exactly once,
          but this was then.

          So here's this poor woman coming in once a week to give
          us the lowdown on God, right? She started out with a
          discussion of the poor heathens who don't know about the
          True God.

          I had been raised in a kind of low-key, amorphous
          Protestantism, but I was also a mythology buff as a kid.

          So right there in class, I started thinking:

          > Why does the Poor Heathen
          > believe as he does?
          >
          > Why, someone must have told
          > him it was true.
          >
          > Okay, and why do we believe...?

          And the whole thing fell apart, and I have never been able
          to take religion seriously since.

          High school:

          Played football badly and skimped on studies.

          My parents had divorced and funds were tight for awhile
          there.

          In college, I worked my way through as a restaurant worker
          (this was when you could still do that), where I got my
          education. I was impoverished but self-supporting and
          completely independent at 19, and I loved it.

          A great professor in both senses turned me on to behavioral
          science, so I went to grad school, and took a fud through
          the Neurological Institute at Penn. I was what used to be
          called a "physiological psychologist," though the chic
          term now is "psychobiologist."

          Brain-behavior relations; my research was on the physiological mechanisms of hunger, thirst, and food selection.

          Started teaching at the University of Virginia.

          Married, helped bring two beautiful kids into the world;
          that's my greatest achievement.

          Did the academic thing for some years; teaching classes,
          running a lab, publishing.

          O yes, getting sent to meetings in various countries....

          It was fun.

          But it began to pall after a number of years. I found myself
          reading social-psych and cognitive-psych research for pleasure;
          the kind of thing Kahneman and Tversky did.

          I would have switched fields if I had stayed in academics.

          But then came an eye-opening sabbatical year spent working with
          a friend and fellow neuron-bender at Hunter College in New York.

          Well, working, and also devouring New York; I was single again
          then. Apart from museums and sashimi and such, I rediscovered
          the pace and diversity of a city; if I got depressed I had only
          to take a walk and feel these things, to feel better.

          Also hooked up with the Amato Opera in the Lower East Side,
          which did (and does) full productions in the smallest opera
          house in the world. Got to do chorus and bit parts
          (Pinza I'm not).

          Great fun!

          I said, in effect: Look, I've lived in Virginia a long time
          for a city kid.

          Took early retirement from UVa and moved to NYC permanently.

          I'm now remarried, living in Queens right across the river
          (ten minutes out and like a quarter the rent), writing full
          time, learning voiceover, and teaching one course a year
          (Brain and Behavior) as an adjunct at Cooper Union College.

          (It's a real trip to be teaching kids who all are smarter
          than I am.)

          Working on three textbooks under contract, dxxxxx.

          Want to get those off my plate and start my book on
          stupidity, the one I want reviewed in the NY Review
          and attacked by George Will... This one will present
          Kahneman/Tversky/Nisbett type research and concepts
          to the general reader, an exploration of why bright
          people do dumb things.

          (There are books like that out there, but they're
          scholarly. Enough with that.)

          And I'm wondering why there are so many parenthetical
          sentences in this document.... No doubt it has profound
          significance.

          Anyway,

          --Doug M.

          --------------------------------------------------------

          Here are the propositions again that did Doug in (Go to links for official poll statements and results):

          Proposition #1:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711276

          > A tree falling in the wilderness with no
          > person around to hear it creates no sound.
          >
          >> I think that is true.
          >>
          >>> RLBaty
          >>> ??????
          >>
          >> I do NOT think that is true.
          >>
          >>> ??????
          >>> ??????

          Proposition #2:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711259

          > An ambiguous sentence is unintelligible, and
          > to write an ambiguous sentence is to make a
          > mistake.
          >
          > (See: http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/message/184936 )
          >
          >> I think that is true.
          >>
          >>> Doug10399
          >>> ??????
          >>
          >> I do NOT think that is true.
          >>
          >>> RLBaty
          >>> ??????

          Proposition #3:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711086

          > Carl Kaun has good reason to believe that
          > Robert Baty is criminally guilty of making
          > unauthorized disclosures of IRS materials.
          >
          >> I think that is true.
          >>
          >>> ??????
          >>> ??????
          >>
          >> I do NOT think that is true.
          >>
          >>> RLBaty
          >>> ??????

          Proposition #4:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711061

          > Robert Baty has good reason to believe
          > that Carl Kaun was arrested for the crime
          > of driving while under the influence of
          > alcohol in 2011.
          >
          >> I think that is true.
          >>
          >>> RLBaty
          >>> Paul Harrison
          >>> ??????
          >>
          >> I do NOT think that is true.
          >>
          >>> ??????
          >>> ??????

          Proposition #5:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711101

          > Francis/Frank Mortyn has good reason to
          > believe that Robert Baty is criminally
          > guilty of stalking Harvard University
          > student Charlene Mortyn.
          >
          >> I think that is true.
          >>
          >>> ??????
          >>> ??????
          >>
          >> I do NOT think that is true.
          >>
          >>> RLBaty
          >>> ??????

          Proposition #6:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711036

          > The L.A. Times at
          >
          http://articles.latimes.com/1989-06-18/local/me-3721_1_libel-suit-circumcision-h\
          umanist
          >
          > has reported that Francis (aka Frank) Mortyn
          > was known to be a "coward and a bully who
          > attempts to get his way through intimidation",
          > and Francis (aka Frank) Mortyn has charged
          > Robert Baty, at
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/message/184164 ,
          >
          > with being a "stalker" of Charlene Mortyn
          > and that Robert Baty should be reported to
          > authorities for criminal prosecution.
          >
          >> I think that is true.
          >>
          >>> RLBaty
          >>> ??????
          >>
          >> I do NOT think that is true.
          >>
          >>> ??????
          >>> ??????

          Proposition #7:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/surveys?id=2711204

          > For purposes of propositions #3, #4, #5,
          > and #6, with issues involving Carl Kaun,
          > Robert Baty, and Francis Mortyn, it will
          > be determined that if one does not think
          > the poll statement is true, then that
          > person does not think the poll statement
          > is true.
          >
          >> I think that is reasonable.
          >>
          >>> RLBaty
          >>> ??????
          >>
          >> I do NOT think that is reasonable.
          >>
          >>> Doug10399
          >>> ??????

          -------------------------------------------
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