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Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement

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  • Jerry McDonald
    I will agree to deny this proposition: The Scriptures forbid a woman to authoritatively teach (didaskein) the Scriptures to a man in every situation. In
    Message 1 of 46 , Oct 31, 2010
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      I will agree to deny this proposition: "The Scriptures forbid a woman to
      authoritatively teach (didaskein) the Scriptures to a man in every situation."

      In Christ Jesus
      Jerry D. McDonald




      ________________________________
      From: Marion Fox <mrfox@...>
      To: Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>; Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>; Frank and Martie Williams
      <thewilliams1828@...>
      Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 8:10:47 PM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement


      Jerry,

      From what you wrote below, you should deny the following proposition: "The
      Scriptures forbid a woman to authoritatively teach (didaskein) the Scriptures to
      a man."


      Affirm: Marion R. Fox



      Deny: Jerry D. McDonald


      What do you say?



      Yours in His service,




      Marion R. Fox


      Five F Publishing Company: http://www.fivefpublishing.com/

      Oklahoma City School of Biblical Studies: http://www.okcsbs.com/

      Blog: http://okcsbs.com/blog/


      One Heart Journal: http://www.okcsbs.com/oneheart.html




      ________________________________
      From: Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>
      To: Marion Fox <mrfox@...>; MAEFT <MAEFT@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>
      Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 9:21:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement


      I don't see why you have a problem with the words "in every situation"? The
      answer to your question would be "e: A woman is not to teach over the man nor
      usurp authority over him. She is to have a quiet and meek spirit (the meaning
      of silence). This does not mean that she cannot didaskien a man. However, my
      wife has every right to teach the scriptures to my 25 year old Christian son.
      She has every right to tell him when he is in violation of the scriptures and
      point those scriptures out to him. To say that she doesn't is to say that she
      has no authority over him as his mother. You want to use the word "place," but
      that word doesn't get down to the heart of the issue. The word "situation"
      does. If I step out of line, my wife has every right as my helper that is fit
      for me to straighten me back up even if she has to go to the word of God to do
      it. That doesn't make her the head of the house, but it makes her my companion
      in life who is trying to help me get to heaven. Your view of 1 Tim. 2:11,12 is
      very ridged and would leave that out, and when it comes to usurping man's
      authority it would forbid a woman teaching high school chemistry or any other
      subject to a Christian teenage boy. You don't seem to understand the
      implications of your doctrine Marion.

      In Christ Jesus
      Jerry D. McDonald




      ________________________________
      From: Marion Fox <mrfox@...>
      To: OneheartinChrist@yahoogroups.com; Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>;
      Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>; Frank and Martie Williams
      <thewilliams1828@...>; Benjamin J. Williams
      <benjamin.j.williams@...>
      Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 6:13:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement


      Jerry,

      Here is my revised proposition: Resolved: "The Scriptures forbid a woman to
      authoritatively teach the Scriptures to a man in every place."

      I will make the following stipulations to go with the proposition:

      1-This applies to a woman authoritatively teaching her adult male family
      members.

      2-This applies to a woman authoritatively teaching a man when she grades his
      Bible correspondence course.

      3-This applies to a woman authoritatively teaching a man in a home Bible study.

      4-This does not apply to teaching secular matters such as mathematics,
      chemistry, history, etc.


      Now, I must ask you to answer one question for me; with regard to the teaching
      of 1 Tim. 2:12 it is:

      a-Limited to authoritative teaching.

      b-Limited to non-authoritative teaching.

      c-Includes all kinds of teaching.

      d-It does not apply to the 21st century church.

      e-Some other explanation (please elaborate).


      Choose one of these answers.



      Yours in His service,





      Marion R. Fox


      Five F Publishing Company: http://www.fivefpublishing.com/

      Oklahoma City School of Biblical Studies: http://www.okcsbs.com/

      Blog: http://okcsbs.com/blog/


      One Heart Journal: http://www.okcsbs.com/oneheart.html




      ________________________________
      From: Marion Fox <mrfox@...>
      To: OneheartinChrist@yahoogroups.com; Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>;
      Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>; Frank and Martie Williams
      <thewilliams1828@...>; Benjamin J. Williams
      <benjamin.j.williams@...>
      Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 8:14:40 AM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement


      Jerry,

      Here is my new proposition:

      Resolved: "The Scriptures forbid a woman to authoritatively teach a man in every

      place."

      Affirm: Marion R. Fox

      Deny: Jerry D. McDonald

      Are you willing to sign this one?

      Yours in His service,

      Marion R. Fox

      Five F Publishing Company: http://www.fivefpublishing.com

      Oklahoma City School of Biblical Studies: http://www.okcsbs.com

      Blog: http://okcsbs.com/blog/

      One Heart Journal: http://www.okcsbs.com/oneheart.html

      ________________________________
      From: Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>
      To: Marion Fox <mrfox@...>; MAEFT <MAEFT@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>
      Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 7:31:21 PM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement

      It is the second one. That is why I put "in every situation."

      In Christ Jesus
      Jerry D. McDonald

      ________________________________
      From: Marion Fox <mrfox@...>
      To: OneheartinChrist@yahoogroups.com; Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>
      Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 5:15:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement

      Jerry,

      I object to the expression "in every situation" because it is far too broad. It
      looks like I am saying that a woman may not under any situation teach a man. A
      woman may teach a man in a non-authoritative way. Please answer a couple of
      questions and we might get pass this impasse.

      First, is it the fact that I claim that the teaching that is forbidden is
      authoritative type teaching that causes you to object to what I teach?

      Second, or is it that fact that I apply it to all situations where authoritative


      type teaching is involved (that is that I do not limit the teaching to the
      assembly and/or perhaps Bible classes)?

      I am prepared to reword my affirmative to defend either or both of these points.


      Let me know.

      Yours in His service,

      Marion R. Fox

      Five F Publishing Company: http://www.fivefpublishing.com/

      Oklahoma City School of Biblical Studies: http://www.okcsbs.com/

      Blog: http://okcsbs.com/blog/

      One Heart Journal: http://www.okcsbs.com/oneheart.html

      ________________________________
      From: Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>
      To: OneheartinChrist@yahoogroups.com; MAEFT <MAEFT@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>
      Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 6:34:12 PM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement

      Marion, your position is that 1 Tim. 2:12 refers to authoritative type teaching
      (disdaskein) and it refers to all men and all women in every situation. Don't
      try to weasle out of it.

      In Christ Jesus
      Jerry D. McDonald

      ________________________________
      From: Marion Fox <mrfox@...>
      To: OneheartinChrist@yahoogroups.com; Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>
      Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 5:22:16 AM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement

      Jerry posted the following, to which I reply (below):

      ________________________________
      From: Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>
      To: OneheartinChrist@yahoogroups.com; MAEFT <MAEFT@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: Rick Popejoy <biblereflections@...>
      Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 4:52:52 PM
      Subject: Re: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement

      Frank, he asked if I would sign that proposition and I said not without the
      stipulation "in every situation." Now you guys know that this is your
      position. You want to let Marion off with a generic proposition so I can't pin
      him down, but that isn't going to happen. However, I do remember when I was
      offering my propositions I offered the proposition "Resolved: The scriptures
      teach that the 'Great Commission' is for all generations of Christians and will
      end only when Christ returns to judge the world.

      Affirm: Jerry McDonald
      Deny:"

      and it wasn't good enough for you back on September 29, 2010 when you wrote
      this:

      ...

      Marion here responding:

      Jerry, the difference between what we asked of you was that you actually
      believed what we asked you to affirm. I do not believe what you want me to
      affirm.

      I quote Vol. 1 of my book (The Role of Women, Vol. I).


      When sound preachers say that teaching of men by woman is forbidden (1 Tim.
      2:12), no person has the right to add the word “all” to their assertion. They do


      not have the right to say that sound preachers mean: “All teaching of men by
      women is forbidden.” Sound preachers are only saying: “Some teaching of men by
      women is forbidden (didaskō type teaching is forbidden).”

      I also ask you to note the more than 5 dozen times that I define didaskō type
      teaching as authoritative type teaching in Vols. I & II. (cf. footnote 13, page
      15 etc.).

      I will have a response for later.


      Yours in His service,



      Marion R. Fox

      Five F Publishing Company: http://www.fivefpublishing.com

      Oklahoma City School of Biblical Studies: http://www.okcsbs.com

      Blog: http://okcsbs.com/blog/

      One Heart Journal: http://www.okcsbs.com/oneheart.html

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    • Jerry McDonald
      pardon my mistake In Christ Jesus Jerry D. McDonald ________________________________ From: Johnny D. Hinton To: One Heart
      Message 46 of 46 , Nov 2, 2010
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        pardon my mistake

        In Christ Jesus
        Jerry D. McDonald




        ________________________________
        From: Johnny D. Hinton <j_d_hinton@...>
        To: One Heart <oneheartinchrist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 8:21:59 AM
        Subject: RE: [OneheartinChrist] Fw: Proposition and agreement



        Jerry,

        You almost got it right.

        Minors who still live at home and are dependent on their parents are under their
        authority and under God.

        As adults we are under God along side our parents, but no longer under them.

        PS. Scripture says a man is "the head of his wife"; it does not say he is head
        of the house.

        Johnny D. Hinton, Evangelist
        29th & Yale Church of Christ
        2901 South Yale Avenue
        Tulsa, OK 74114-6250

        http://29thandyale.com/
        O: 918 . 744 . 0356 x 202
        C: 405 . 213 . 4608


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