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The Hardin Dissertation!

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  • Robert Baty
    Here s the link to the Hardin dissertation that is presently being discussed on the SC list:
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 1, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Here's the link to the Hardin dissertation that is presently being discussed on the SC list:

      http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/1682/Hardin2009.pdf?sequence=1

      Following, from the related website, is a summary of what it is all about:

      Title:

      > Common Cause: B. C. Goodpasture,
      > the Gospel Advocate, and Churches
      > of Christ in the Twentieth Century

      Author:

      > Hardin, John

      Abstract:

      > From 1939 to 1977, Benton Cordell
      > Goodpasture (1895-1977) edited
      > the Gospel Advocate. Founded in
      > 1855 and published weekly in
      > Nashville, the paper was a crucial
      > center of influence for Churches of
      > Christ, a loose-knit group of
      > autonomous congregations
      > concentrated in the South. After
      > 1945, Goodpasture, the Advocate,
      > and a network of likeminded
      > preachers, churches, and institutions
      > were at the center of the group’s
      > transition from a marginal position
      > in society. The influential editor
      > nurtured growth and denominational
      > identity by promoting the group’s
      > interests, activities, and institutions,
      > and used his significant informal
      > power to isolate a small minority of
      > churches resisting modernization.
      > The apparent majority consensus
      > that he helped cement in the 1950s
      > came under attack from the left
      > during the 1960s. His leadership
      > role then took on a defensive,
      > caretaker quality, but he remained
      > an important symbol of stability for
      > mainstream Churches of Christ to his
      > death.

      Advisors:

      > Harrell, David Edwin Jr.

      This item appears in the following Collection(s):

      > Auburn Theses and Dissertations

      Auburn University
      Auburn, Alabama 36849

      -------------------------------------------
      -------------------------------------------



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert Baty
      I have now had an opportunity to browse the first 100 pages or so of the dissertation. It does have some intriguing discussion of the history and evolution
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 1, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        I have now had an opportunity to browse the first 100 pages or so of the dissertation.

        It does have some intriguing discussion of the history and evolution such as the move from secular to sect to denomination and back to secular and "that college question" beginning about page 86.

        And so it is I post this followup to my earlier message which is copied below.

        While Goodpasture's tenure at the Advocate appears to have run for many years and up to 1977 or so, I haven't seen anything, despite the tedius attention to details on such things as "the college question", that Goodpasture and/or Hardin were informed of the 20 year effort, culminating in 1970, to get the feds to allow basketball ministers at ACU to claim tax exempt housing based on ACU being recognized, officially, by the federal government as an "integral agency of the church".

        Perhaps I'll have to wait for another to develop the tedius historical details and analysis of that part of our history. Such has been suggested by Wolfgang, but I am not aware that any student has yet come forward to take up the task.

        I continue to look forward to the discussion of Hardin's disseration and how the scholars of the SC list might deal with the issue further.

        Perhaps it could be argued that, if it be the case, Hardin's failure to be aware of the 70-549 facts and history is a conspicuous defect in his disseration inasmuch as he has attempted to deal with the underlying issue in the context of Goodpasture's life and work with years extending beyond the issuance of 70-549.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty

        -----------------------------
        -----------------------------


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Robert Baty
        Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 1:17 PM
        To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [M & B] The Hardin Dissertation!

        Here's the link to the Hardin dissertation that is presently being discussed on the SC list:

        http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/1682/Hardin2009.pdf?sequence=1

        Following, from the related website, is a summary of what it is all about:

        Title:

        > Common Cause: B. C. Goodpasture,
        > the Gospel Advocate, and Churches
        > of Christ in the Twentieth Century

        Author:

        > Hardin, John

        Abstract:

        > From 1939 to 1977, Benton Cordell
        > Goodpasture (1895-1977) edited
        > the Gospel Advocate. Founded in
        > 1855 and published weekly in
        > Nashville, the paper was a crucial
        > center of influence for Churches of
        > Christ, a loose-knit group of
        > autonomous congregations
        > concentrated in the South. After
        > 1945, Goodpasture, the Advocate,
        > and a network of likeminded
        > preachers, churches, and institutions
        > were at the center of the group’s
        > transition from a marginal position
        > in society. The influential editor
        > nurtured growth and denominational
        > identity by promoting the group’s
        > interests, activities, and institutions,
        > and used his significant informal
        > power to isolate a small minority of
        > churches resisting modernization.
        > The apparent majority consensus
        > that he helped cement in the 1950s
        > came under attack from the left
        > during the 1960s. His leadership
        > role then took on a defensive,
        > caretaker quality, but he remained
        > an important symbol of stability for
        > mainstream Churches of Christ to his
        > death.

        Advisors:

        > Harrell, David Edwin Jr.

        This item appears in the following Collection(s):

        > Auburn Theses and Dissertations

        Auburn University
        Auburn, Alabama 36849

        -------------------------------------------
        -------------------------------------------



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Robert Baty
        ... To: john.hardin at archives.alabama.gov From: Robert Baty Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:40 PM Subject: Goodpasture, your dissertation, and 70-549!
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 2, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          My inquiry to John C. Hardin:

          ---------------------------------

          To: john.hardin"at"archives.alabama.gov
          From: Robert Baty
          Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:40 PM

          Subject: Goodpasture, your dissertation, and 70-549!

          Dear John Hardin,

          The Stone-Campbell discussion list has taken up a discussion of your doctoral dissertation regarding Goodpasture.

          It is just beginning.

          I have a question or two regarding something that, considering the subject, appears to have been omitted.

          You spend considerable space discussing and referencing what might be considered "the college question", yet I saw no indication of your awareness of certain, significant aspects of such that took place during the 1950-1970 period and, since 1970, has changed the course of federal tax administration in this country.

          That issue involves how, after 20 years, ACU, with assistance from George Bush and Omar Burleson, was able to get the IRS to officially recognize ACU and similar schools as being operated as "integral agencies of the church".

          Such recognition was the key to allowing ACU employees (e.g., basketball coaches and those similarly situated) to register as ministers and claim income tax exemptions for ministerial housing allowances.

          That determination, an administrative ruling by the IRS, was issued in 1970. Since 1970 the schools have been very effective in exploiting the gimmick; even though it is, arguably, contrary to the facts and the law.

          Do you know if Goodpasture was aware of these goings on?

          Were you aware of this history?

          Was there ever anything mentioned in Goodpasture's Gospel Advocate about this history?

          Ed Harrell (who directed the dissertation) was aware of the history and has previously commented, briefly, on it.

          Any information you can provide regarding this matter will be greatly appreciated.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

          ------------------------------------------
          ------------------------------------------

          --------------Previous Message---------

          From: Robert Baty
          Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 4:13 PM
          To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

          Subject: Re: The Hardin Dissertation!

          I have now had an opportunity to browse the first 100 pages or so of the dissertation.

          It does have some intriguing discussion of the history and evolution such as the move from secular to sect to denomination and back to secular and "that college question" beginning about page 86.

          And so it is I post this followup to my earlier message which is copied below.

          While Goodpasture's tenure at the Advocate appears to have run for many years and up to 1977 or so, I haven't seen anything, despite the tedius attention to details on such things as "the college question", that Goodpasture and/or Hardin were informed of the 20 year effort, culminating in 1970, to get the feds to allow basketball ministers at ACU to claim tax exempt housing based on ACU being recognized, officially, by the federal government as an "integral agency of the church".

          Perhaps I'll have to wait for another to develop the tedius historical details and analysis of that part of our history. Such has been suggested by Wolfgang, but I am not aware that any student has yet come forward to take up the task.

          I continue to look forward to the discussion of Hardin's disseration and how the scholars of the SC list might deal with the issue further.

          Perhaps it could be argued that, if it be the case, Hardin's failure to be aware of the 70-549 facts and history is a conspicuous defect in his disseration inasmuch as he has attempted to deal with the underlying issue in the context of Goodpasture's life and work with years extending beyond the issuance of 70-549.

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

          -----------Original Message-------------

          From: Robert Baty
          Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 1:17 PM
          To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

          Subject: The Hardin Dissertation!

          Here's the link to the Hardin dissertation that is presently being discussed on the SC list:

          http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/1682/Hardin2009.pdf?sequence=1

          Following, from the related website, is a summary of what it is all about:

          Title:

          > Common Cause: B. C. Goodpasture,
          > the Gospel Advocate, and Churches
          > of Christ in the Twentieth Century

          Author:

          > Hardin, John

          Abstract:

          > From 1939 to 1977, Benton Cordell
          > Goodpasture (1895-1977) edited
          > the Gospel Advocate. Founded in
          > 1855 and published weekly in
          > Nashville, the paper was a crucial
          > center of influence for Churches of
          > Christ, a loose-knit group of
          > autonomous congregations
          > concentrated in the South. After
          > 1945, Goodpasture, the Advocate,
          > and a network of likeminded
          > preachers, churches, and institutions
          > were at the center of the group’s
          > transition from a marginal position
          > in society. The influential editor
          > nurtured growth and denominational
          > identity by promoting the group’s
          > interests, activities, and institutions,
          > and used his significant informal
          > power to isolate a small minority of
          > churches resisting modernization.
          > The apparent majority consensus
          > that he helped cement in the 1950s
          > came under attack from the left
          > during the 1960s. His leadership
          > role then took on a defensive,
          > caretaker quality, but he remained
          > an important symbol of stability for
          > mainstream Churches of Christ to his
          > death.

          Advisors:

          > Harrell, David Edwin Jr.

          This item appears in the following Collection(s):

          > Auburn Theses and Dissertations

          Auburn University
          Auburn, Alabama 36849

          -------------------------------------------
          -------------------------------------------




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert Baty
          ... From: Hardin, John To: Robert Baty Date: Friday, October 2, 2009 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Goodpasture, your dissertation, and 70-549! Robert, I am aware of the
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 2, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Here's Hardin's reply to my inquiry:

            --------------------------------------

            From: Hardin, John
            To: Robert Baty
            Date: Friday, October 2, 2009 8:46 AM

            Subject: Re: Goodpasture, your dissertation, and 70-549!

            Robert,

            I am aware of the issue solely because you’ve harped on it on the S-C list in my on and off years of lurking in the shadows.

            To my knowledge, Goodpasture never wrote a word about it.

            You obviously want the issue to be taken seriously and at the very least make it into the historical literature.

            The best chance for that to happen is for you to stop harping on it in forums like S-C, and instead write a formal, reasoned, sourced paper on it.

            That would be a much more effective approach than the one you’ve employed to this point.

            John

            ---------------------------------------------
            ---------------------------------------------

            My comments:

            Some may recall that recently it was proposed on the SC list that not just any wannabe preacher boy should be set up against the likes of Ben Bogard.

            Likewise, not just any bumpkin like myself should endeavor to complete the project suggested by John, though it is just the sort of thing I've been promoting for a long time. And, of course, it has been noted that I may be denied access to such "sources" as John might propose.

            It is most interesting to me, that John suggests that without my ministry the issue would remain a secret of the schoolmen and that it remains very much a secret even to this day.

            It might even be a better dissertation subject that the one selected by Hardin!

            If only...

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            ------------My Inquiry to John Hardin-------

            From: Robert Baty
            Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 7:55 AM
            To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: The Hardin Dissertation!

            My inquiry to John C. Hardin:

            ---------------------------------

            To: john.hardin"at"archives.alabama.gov
            From: Robert Baty
            Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:40 PM

            Subject: Goodpasture, your dissertation, and 70-549!

            Dear John Hardin,

            The Stone-Campbell discussion list has taken up a discussion of your doctoral dissertation regarding Goodpasture.

            It is just beginning.

            I have a question or two regarding something that, considering the subject, appears to have been omitted.

            You spend considerable space discussing and referencing what might be considered "the college question", yet I saw no indication of your awareness of certain, significant aspects of such that took place during the 1950-1970 period and, since 1970, has changed the course of federal tax administration in this country.

            That issue involves how, after 20 years, ACU, with assistance from George Bush and Omar Burleson, was able to get the IRS to officially recognize ACU and similar schools as being operated as "integral agencies of the church".

            Such recognition was the key to allowing ACU employees (e.g., basketball coaches and those similarly situated) to register as ministers and claim income tax exemptions for ministerial housing allowances.

            That determination, an administrative ruling by the IRS, was issued in 1970. Since 1970 the schools have been very effective in exploiting the gimmick; even though it is, arguably, contrary to the facts and the law.

            Do you know if Goodpasture was aware of these goings on?

            Were you aware of this history?

            Was there ever anything mentioned in Goodpasture's Gospel Advocate about this history?

            Ed Harrell (who directed the dissertation) was aware of the history and has previously commented, briefly, on it.

            Any information you can provide regarding this matter will be greatly appreciated.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            ------------------------------------------
            ------------------------------------------

            --------------Previous Message---------

            From: Robert Baty
            Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 4:13 PM
            To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

            Subject: Re: The Hardin Dissertation!

            I have now had an opportunity to browse the first 100 pages or so of the dissertation.

            It does have some intriguing discussion of the history and evolution such as the move from secular to sect to denomination and back to secular and "that college question" beginning about page 86.

            And so it is I post this followup to my earlier message which is copied below.

            While Goodpasture's tenure at the Advocate appears to have run for many years and up to 1977 or so, I haven't seen anything, despite the tedius attention to details on such things as "the college question", that Goodpasture and/or Hardin were informed of the 20 year effort, culminating in 1970, to get the feds to allow basketball ministers at ACU to claim tax exempt housing based on ACU being recognized, officially, by the federal government as an "integral agency of the church".

            Perhaps I'll have to wait for another to develop the tedius historical details and analysis of that part of our history. Such has been suggested by Wolfgang, but I am not aware that any student has yet come forward to take up the task.

            I continue to look forward to the discussion of Hardin's disseration and how the scholars of the SC list might deal with the issue further.

            Perhaps it could be argued that, if it be the case, Hardin's failure to be aware of the 70-549 facts and history is a conspicuous defect in his disseration inasmuch as he has attempted to deal with the underlying issue in the context of Goodpasture's life and work with years extending beyond the issuance of 70-549.

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            -----------Original Message-------------

            From: Robert Baty
            Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 1:17 PM
            To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

            Subject: The Hardin Dissertation!

            Here's the link to the Hardin dissertation that is presently being discussed on the SC list:

            http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/1682/Hardin2009.pdf?sequence=1

            Following, from the related website, is a summary of what it is all about:

            Title:

            > Common Cause: B. C. Goodpasture,
            > the Gospel Advocate, and Churches
            > of Christ in the Twentieth Century

            Author:

            > Hardin, John

            Abstract:

            > From 1939 to 1977, Benton Cordell
            > Goodpasture (1895-1977) edited
            > the Gospel Advocate. Founded in
            > 1855 and published weekly in
            > Nashville, the paper was a crucial
            > center of influence for Churches of
            > Christ, a loose-knit group of
            > autonomous congregations
            > concentrated in the South. After
            > 1945, Goodpasture, the Advocate,
            > and a network of likeminded
            > preachers, churches, and institutions
            > were at the center of the group’s
            > transition from a marginal position
            > in society. The influential editor
            > nurtured growth and denominational
            > identity by promoting the group’s
            > interests, activities, and institutions,
            > and used his significant informal
            > power to isolate a small minority of
            > churches resisting modernization.
            > The apparent majority consensus
            > that he helped cement in the 1950s
            > came under attack from the left
            > during the 1960s. His leadership
            > role then took on a defensive,
            > caretaker quality, but he remained
            > an important symbol of stability for
            > mainstream Churches of Christ to his
            > death.

            Advisors:

            > Harrell, David Edwin Jr.

            This item appears in the following Collection(s):

            > Auburn Theses and Dissertations

            Auburn University
            Auburn, Alabama 36849

            -------------------------------------------
            -------------------------------------------



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robert Baty
            I think most here will probably understand and appreciate the non-fallacious nature of the Bogard analogy that I used to suggest my ministry limitations
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 2, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I think most here will probably understand and appreciate the non-fallacious nature of the Bogard analogy that I used to suggest my ministry limitations regarding the 70-549 issue.

              John Hardin, however, has followed up with an additional response regarding the matter:

              -------------------------------------------

              From: Hardin, John
              To: Robert Baty
              Date: Friday, October 2, 2009 9:08 AM

              Subject: Re: Goodpasture, your dissertation, and 70-549!

              Robert,

              I’m not interested in the task, you are. What prevents you from writing a paper?

              Even if you couldn’t get it published, you could disseminate it electronically.

              Your Ben Bogard analogy is a fallacy.

              It doesn’t apply in this case.

              Either put up or shut up, as the saying goes.

              John

              -------------------------------------------
              -------------------------------------------

              My further comments:

              It definitely looks like John is not going to be the one to pursue a scholarly account of the facts and history regarding the 70-549 matter.

              I'll look for another and anxiously anticipate the popular, public discussion that might follow the filing of the IRC 107 suit; such discussion possibly having the 70-549 issue as a highlight.

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty

              --------------Previous Message-------------

              From: Robert Baty
              Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 9:07 AM
              To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: The Hardin Dissertation!

              Here's Hardin's reply to my inquiry:

              --------------------------------------

              From: Hardin, John
              To: Robert Baty
              Date: Friday, October 2, 2009 8:46 AM

              Subject: Re: Goodpasture, your dissertation, and 70-549!

              Robert,

              I am aware of the issue solely because you’ve harped on it on the S-C list in my on and off years of lurking in the shadows.

              To my knowledge, Goodpasture never wrote a word about it.

              You obviously want the issue to be taken seriously and at the very least make it into the historical literature.

              The best chance for that to happen is for you to stop harping on it in forums like S-C, and instead write a formal, reasoned, sourced paper on it.

              That would be a much more effective approach than the one you’ve employed to this point.

              John

              ---------------------------------------------
              ---------------------------------------------

              My comments:

              Some may recall that recently it was proposed on the SC list that not just any wannabe preacher boy should be set up against the likes of Ben Bogard.

              Likewise, not just any bumpkin like myself should endeavor to complete the project suggested by John, though it is just the sort of thing I've been promoting for a long time. And, of course, it has been noted that I may be denied access to such "sources" as John might propose.

              It is most interesting to me, that John suggests that without my ministry the issue would remain a secret of the schoolmen and that it remains very much a secret even to this day.

              It might even be a better dissertation subject that the one selected by Hardin!

              If only...

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty

              ------------My Inquiry to John Hardin-------

              From: Robert Baty
              Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 7:55 AM
              To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: The Hardin Dissertation!

              My inquiry to John C. Hardin:

              ---------------------------------

              To: john.hardin"at"archives.alabama.gov
              From: Robert Baty
              Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:40 PM

              Subject: Goodpasture, your dissertation, and 70-549!

              Dear John Hardin,

              The Stone-Campbell discussion list has taken up a discussion of your doctoral dissertation regarding Goodpasture.

              It is just beginning.

              I have a question or two regarding something that, considering the subject, appears to have been omitted.

              You spend considerable space discussing and referencing what might be considered "the college question", yet I saw no indication of your awareness of certain, significant aspects of such that took place during the 1950-1970 period and, since 1970, has changed the course of federal tax administration in this country.

              That issue involves how, after 20 years, ACU, with assistance from George Bush and Omar Burleson, was able to get the IRS to officially recognize ACU and similar schools as being operated as "integral agencies of the church".

              Such recognition was the key to allowing ACU employees (e.g., basketball coaches and those similarly situated) to register as ministers and claim income tax exemptions for ministerial housing allowances.

              That determination, an administrative ruling by the IRS, was issued in 1970. Since 1970 the schools have been very effective in exploiting the gimmick; even though it is, arguably, contrary to the facts and the law.

              Do you know if Goodpasture was aware of these goings on?

              Were you aware of this history?

              Was there ever anything mentioned in Goodpasture's Gospel Advocate about this history?

              Ed Harrell (who directed the dissertation) was aware of the history and has previously commented, briefly, on it.

              Any information you can provide regarding this matter will be greatly appreciated.

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty

              ------------------------------------------
              ------------------------------------------

              --------------Previous Message---------

              From: Robert Baty
              Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 4:13 PM
              To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

              Subject: Re: The Hardin Dissertation!

              I have now had an opportunity to browse the first 100 pages or so of the dissertation.

              It does have some intriguing discussion of the history and evolution such as the move from secular to sect to denomination and back to secular and "that college question" beginning about page 86.

              And so it is I post this followup to my earlier message which is copied below.

              While Goodpasture's tenure at the Advocate appears to have run for many years and up to 1977 or so, I haven't seen anything, despite the tedius attention to details on such things as "the college question", that Goodpasture and/or Hardin were informed of the 20 year effort, culminating in 1970, to get the feds to allow basketball ministers at ACU to claim tax exempt housing based on ACU being recognized, officially, by the federal government as an "integral agency of the church".

              Perhaps I'll have to wait for another to develop the tedius historical details and analysis of that part of our history. Such has been suggested by Wolfgang, but I am not aware that any student has yet come forward to take up the task.

              I continue to look forward to the discussion of Hardin's disseration and how the scholars of the SC list might deal with the issue further.

              Perhaps it could be argued that, if it be the case, Hardin's failure to be aware of the 70-549 facts and history is a conspicuous defect in his disseration inasmuch as he has attempted to deal with the underlying issue in the context of Goodpasture's life and work with years extending beyond the issuance of 70-549.

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty

              -----------Original Message-------------

              From: Robert Baty
              Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 1:17 PM
              To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com

              Subject: The Hardin Dissertation!

              Here's the link to the Hardin dissertation that is presently being discussed on the SC list:

              http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/1682/Hardin2009.pdf?sequence=1

              Following, from the related website, is a summary of what it is all about:

              Title:

              > Common Cause: B. C. Goodpasture,
              > the Gospel Advocate, and Churches
              > of Christ in the Twentieth Century

              Author:

              > Hardin, John

              Abstract:

              > From 1939 to 1977, Benton Cordell
              > Goodpasture (1895-1977) edited
              > the Gospel Advocate. Founded in
              > 1855 and published weekly in
              > Nashville, the paper was a crucial
              > center of influence for Churches of
              > Christ, a loose-knit group of
              > autonomous congregations
              > concentrated in the South. After
              > 1945, Goodpasture, the Advocate,
              > and a network of likeminded
              > preachers, churches, and institutions
              > were at the center of the group’s
              > transition from a marginal position
              > in society. The influential editor
              > nurtured growth and denominational
              > identity by promoting the group’s
              > interests, activities, and institutions,
              > and used his significant informal
              > power to isolate a small minority of
              > churches resisting modernization.
              > The apparent majority consensus
              > that he helped cement in the 1950s
              > came under attack from the left
              > during the 1960s. His leadership
              > role then took on a defensive,
              > caretaker quality, but he remained
              > an important symbol of stability for
              > mainstream Churches of Christ to his
              > death.

              Advisors:

              > Harrell, David Edwin Jr.

              This item appears in the following Collection(s):

              > Auburn Theses and Dissertations

              Auburn University
              Auburn, Alabama 36849

              -------------------------------------------
              -------------------------------------------




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Robert Baty
              The dissertation can be found in pdf format at: http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/1682/Hardin2009.pdf?sequence=1 ... John had earlier indicated
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 5, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                The dissertation can be found in pdf format at:

                http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/1682/Hardin2009.pdf?sequence=1

                John Hardin, the author, and I had the following recent exchange:

                > From: Hardin, John
                > To: Robert Baty
                > Date: Mon Oct 5, 2009 9:03 am

                > Subject: Re: Goodpasture, your
                > dissertation, and 70-549!

                > Robert,

                > My dissertation is rife with
                > shortcomings, but none of them
                > have anything to do with 70-549.

                > You still haven't explained why
                > you're incapable of putting together
                > a summary paper on the 70-549 issue.

                > John

                I sent John the following reply:

                > From: Robert Baty
                > To: John Hardin

                > Date: Mon Oct 5, 2009

                > Subject: Re: Goodpasture, your
                > dissertation, and 70-549!

                > John,

                > I'll pass along your observations
                > as we continue to develop a
                > discussion of your dissertation
                > on the SC list.

                > Considering it IS a shortcoming of
                > your dissertation, one which might
                > be discussed and developed more
                > if there was interest, I can certainly
                > understand your reluctance to admit
                > to it so readily.

                > There is no need or reason for me
                > to try and convince you of what
                > otherwise is obvious regarding why
                > it is the case that I am not the one to
                > attempt a presentation of a legitimate,
                > thorough account of 70-549.

                > Thanks for taking the time to engage
                > in this exchange.

                > I do look forward to the scholars'
                > discussion of your dissertation on
                > the SC list.

                > Sincerely,
                > Robert Baty

                John had earlier indicated that, while he was writing his the dissertation, he was well aware of the 70-549 issue.

                Considering the character of his dissertation, I figure he has no good scholarly reason for not addressing the matter and two fundamental questions:

                > Did Goodpasture keep the "secret"?

                > Was the "secret" kept from Goodpasture?

                While the scholars of the SC list pursue their tedious disection of Hardin's dissertation, with 70-549 being, so far, conspicuously absent therefrom, the moderator of the SC list has informed me privately that the subject of 70-549 should be dropped from discussion on that list.

                The continued refusal of the good brethren to properly deal with that historic, public issue is so noted.

                Perhaps when the IRC suit is filed 70-549 will get a proper, public discussion in the context of that suit.

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty

                P.S. As was anticipated, the vocal SC minority complained about my posting of my exchange with John there, while evading the 70-549 issue, and has yet to address John's use of certain such similar material, without personal authorization, in is his dissertation.

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              • Robert Baty
                This is simply to announce that there has been some renewed interest in the 70-549/IRC 107 issue on the SC list, and the discussion has been, so far, allowed
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 6, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  This is simply to announce that there has been some renewed interest in the 70-549/IRC 107 issue on the SC list, and the discussion has been, so far, allowed to proceed further.

                  Perhaps "we" will post more about all of that, and the much anticipated IRC 107 suit, soon.

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty

                  ---------------------------
                  ---------------------------


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Robert Baty
                  Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 8:04 PM
                  To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [M & B] Re: The Hardin Dissertation!

                  The dissertation can be found in pdf format at:

                  http://etd.auburn.edu/etd/bitstream/handle/10415/1682/Hardin2009.pdf?sequence=1

                  John Hardin, the author, and I had the following recent exchange:

                  > From: Hardin, John
                  > To: Robert Baty
                  > Date: Mon Oct 5, 2009 9:03 am

                  > Subject: Re: Goodpasture, your
                  > dissertation, and 70-549!

                  > Robert,

                  > My dissertation is rife with
                  > shortcomings, but none of them
                  > have anything to do with 70-549.

                  > You still haven't explained why
                  > you're incapable of putting together
                  > a summary paper on the 70-549 issue.

                  > John

                  I sent John the following reply:

                  > From: Robert Baty
                  > To: John Hardin

                  > Date: Mon Oct 5, 2009

                  > Subject: Re: Goodpasture, your
                  > dissertation, and 70-549!

                  > John,

                  > I'll pass along your observations
                  > as we continue to develop a
                  > discussion of your dissertation
                  > on the SC list.

                  > Considering it IS a shortcoming of
                  > your dissertation, one which might
                  > be discussed and developed more
                  > if there was interest, I can certainly
                  > understand your reluctance to admit
                  > to it so readily.

                  > There is no need or reason for me
                  > to try and convince you of what
                  > otherwise is obvious regarding why
                  > it is the case that I am not the one to
                  > attempt a presentation of a legitimate,
                  > thorough account of 70-549.

                  > Thanks for taking the time to engage
                  > in this exchange.

                  > I do look forward to the scholars'
                  > discussion of your dissertation on
                  > the SC list.

                  > Sincerely,
                  > Robert Baty

                  John had earlier indicated that, while he was writing his the dissertation, he was well aware of the 70-549 issue.

                  Considering the character of his dissertation, I figure he has no good scholarly reason for not addressing the matter and two fundamental questions:

                  > Did Goodpasture keep the "secret"?

                  > Was the "secret" kept from Goodpasture?

                  While the scholars of the SC list pursue their tedious disection of Hardin's dissertation, with 70-549 being, so far, conspicuously absent therefrom, the moderator of the SC list has informed me privately that the subject of 70-549 should be dropped from discussion on that list.

                  The continued refusal of the good brethren to properly deal with that historic, public issue is so noted.

                  Perhaps when the IRC suit is filed 70-549 will get a proper, public discussion in the context of that suit.

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty

                  P.S. As was anticipated, the vocal SC minority complained about my posting of my exchange with John there, while evading the 70-549 issue, and has yet to address John's use of certain such similar material, without personal authorization, in is his dissertation.

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