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Update on the Cornelius debate!

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  • Robert Baty
    Some may recall that I had tried to facilitate a formal discussion between Marion R. Fox and Jerry D. McDonald regarding their differences concerning Cornelius
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
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      Some may recall that I had tried to facilitate a formal discussion between Marion R. Fox and Jerry D. McDonald regarding their differences concerning Cornelius and the allegation by some (e.g., McDonald) that Cornelius was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

      I was unsuccessful in my efforts and Fox and McDonald chose rather to pursue more controversial matters which have strained their relationship.

      Now it appears they are, informally, getting back to fussing about Cornelius and Holy Spirit baptism...on Marion R. Fox's discussion list.

      Here's the link to the homepage:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OneheartinChrist/

      You can review the public archives there, a recent series of posts, and see what you think.

      As to my own discussion with McDonald regarding a more fundamental matter regarding the Cornelius issue, see the following history:

      The Max Burgin proposition:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coCBanned/message/12850

      > It is very clearly stated in
      > Acts 11:15-17 that Cornelius
      > was baptised in the Holy Spirit.

      > Affirm: Jerry D. McDonald
      > Deny: Robert Baty

      McDonald's first affirmative:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16230

      Baty's first rebuttal:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16232

      McDonald's second affirmative:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16244

      Baty's second rebuttal:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16245

      Addendum to Baty's second rebuttal:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16250

      McDonald's third affirmative:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16252

      Baty's third rebuttal:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16253

      McDonald's fourth affirmative:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16268

      Baty's fourth rebuttal:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16269

      McDonald's fifth affirmative:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16273

      Baty's fifth rebuttal:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/16274

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty



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    • Jerry McDonald
      Thank you for pointing that out Robert because Marion is trying to lay that at my door step. In Christ Jesus Jerry McDonald ________________________________
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
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        Thank you for pointing that out Robert because Marion is trying to lay that at my door step.

        In Christ Jesus
        Jerry McDonald




        ________________________________
        From: Robert Baty <rlbaty@...>
        To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:19:45 PM
        Subject: [M & B] Update on the Cornelius debate!

         
        Some may recall that I had tried to facilitate a formal discussion between Marion R. Fox and Jerry D. McDonald regarding their differences concerning Cornelius and the allegation by some (e.g., McDonald) that Cornelius was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

        I was unsuccessful in my efforts and Fox and McDonald chose rather to pursue more controversial matters which have strained their relationship.

        Now it appears they are, informally, getting back to fussing about Cornelius and Holy Spirit baptism...on Marion R. Fox's discussion list.

        Here's the link to the homepage:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Oneheartin Christ/

        You can review the public archives there, a recent series of posts, and see what you think.

        As to my own discussion with McDonald regarding a more fundamental matter regarding the Cornelius issue, see the following history:

        The Max Burgin proposition:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/coCBanned/ message/12850

        > It is very clearly stated in
        > Acts 11:15-17 that Cornelius
        > was baptised in the Holy Spirit.

        > Affirm: Jerry D. McDonald
        > Deny: Robert Baty

        McDonald's first affirmative:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16230

        Baty's first rebuttal:

        http://groups. yahoo..com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16232

        McDonald's second affirmative:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16244

        Baty's second rebuttal:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16245

        Addendum to Baty's second rebuttal:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16250

        McDonald's third affirmative:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16252

        Baty's third rebuttal:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16253

        McDonald's fourth affirmative:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16268

        Baty's fourth rebuttal:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16269

        McDonald's fifth affirmative:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16273

        Baty's fifth rebuttal:

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16274

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty

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      • Robert Baty
        Jerry, Can you see it coming? I ve simply made an assertion, Guy N. Woods like! :o) So, where s the evidence , they will ask? In any case, from what little
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
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          Jerry,

          Can you see it coming?

          I've simply made an assertion, Guy N. Woods like! :o)

          So, where's the "evidence", they will ask?

          In any case, from what little attention I paid to the question of "who started it", I got the impression that each of you is referring to a different "it" and so are coming up with different answers to that question.

          But, perhaps, you'll get that worked out...or not!

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

          --------------Jerry's Message------------

          To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
          From: Jerry McDonald
          Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:23 PM

          Subject: Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

          Thank you for pointing that out Robert because Marion is trying to lay that at my door step.

          In Christ Jesus
          Jerry McDonald

          ------------My Original Message----------

          From: Robert Baty <rlbaty@...>
          To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:19:45 PM

          Subject: Update on the Cornelius debate!

          Some may recall that I had tried to facilitate a formal discussion between Marion R. Fox and Jerry D. McDonald regarding their differences concerning Cornelius and the allegation by some (e.g., McDonald) that Cornelius was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

          I was unsuccessful in my efforts and Fox and McDonald chose rather to pursue more controversial matters which have strained their relationship.

          Now it appears they are, informally, getting back to fussing about Cornelius and Holy Spirit baptism...on Marion R. Fox's discussion list.

          Here's the link to the homepage:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Oneheartin Christ/

          You can review the public archives there, a recent series of posts, and see what you think.

          As to my own discussion with McDonald regarding a more fundamental matter regarding the Cornelius issue, see the following history:

          The Max Burgin proposition:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/coCBanned/ message/12850

          > It is very clearly stated in
          > Acts 11:15-17 that Cornelius
          > was baptised in the Holy Spirit.

          > Affirm: Jerry D. McDonald
          > Deny: Robert Baty

          McDonald's first affirmative:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16230

          Baty's first rebuttal:

          http://groups. yahoo..com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16232

          McDonald's second affirmative:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16244

          Baty's second rebuttal:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16245

          Addendum to Baty's second rebuttal:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16250

          McDonald's third affirmative:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16252

          Baty's third rebuttal:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16253

          McDonald's fourth affirmative:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16268

          Baty's fourth rebuttal:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16269

          McDonald's fifth affirmative:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16273

          Baty's fifth rebuttal:

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16274

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

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        • Jerry McDonald
          No this whole thing comes back to the debate on the Cornelius thing.  Marion and I talked about debating that, but then I suggested we debate the role of the
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
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            No this whole thing comes back to the debate on the Cornelius thing.  Marion and I talked about debating that, but then I suggested we debate the role of the woman.  Now he feels persecuted and is trying to make me decide whether or not to mark him.  I told him that he is the one who invited me to debate on the Cornelius thing.  He told me that either I had a bad memory or was loose with the facts.  I was just thanking you for bringing up the fact that you initiated this thing.  I did not go looking to persecute Marion Fox.  If I start a debate I have no problem with admitting it, but I won't be falsely charged with one.
            jdm




            ________________________________
            From: Robert Baty <rlbaty@...>
            To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:31:37 PM
            Subject: [M & B] Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

             
            Jerry,

            Can you see it coming?

            I've simply made an assertion, Guy N. Woods like! :o)

            So, where's the "evidence", they will ask?

            In any case, from what little attention I paid to the question of "who started it", I got the impression that each of you is referring to a different "it" and so are coming up with different answers to that question.

            But, perhaps, you'll get that worked out...or not!

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            ------------ --Jerry's Message----- -------

            To: Maury_and_Baty@ yahoogroups. com
            From: Jerry McDonald
            Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:23 PM

            Subject: Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

            Thank you for pointing that out Robert because Marion is trying to lay that at my door step.

            In Christ Jesus
            Jerry McDonald

            ------------ My Original Message----- -----

            From: Robert Baty <rlbaty@webtv. net>
            To: Maury_and_Baty@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:19:45 PM

            Subject: Update on the Cornelius debate!

            Some may recall that I had tried to facilitate a formal discussion between Marion R. Fox and Jerry D. McDonald regarding their differences concerning Cornelius and the allegation by some (e.g., McDonald) that Cornelius was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

            I was unsuccessful in my efforts and Fox and McDonald chose rather to pursue more controversial matters which have strained their relationship.

            Now it appears they are, informally, getting back to fussing about Cornelius and Holy Spirit baptism...on Marion R. Fox's discussion list.

            Here's the link to the homepage:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Oneheartin Christ/

            You can review the public archives there, a recent series of posts, and see what you think.

            As to my own discussion with McDonald regarding a more fundamental matter regarding the Cornelius issue, see the following history:

            The Max Burgin proposition:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/coCBanned/ message/12850

            > It is very clearly stated in
            > Acts 11:15-17 that Cornelius
            > was baptised in the Holy Spirit.

            > Affirm: Jerry D. McDonald
            > Deny: Robert Baty

            McDonald's first affirmative:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16230

            Baty's first rebuttal:

            http://groups. yahoo..com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16232

            McDonald's second affirmative:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16244

            Baty's second rebuttal:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16245

            Addendum to Baty's second rebuttal:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16250

            McDonald's third affirmative:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16252

            Baty's third rebuttal:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16253

            McDonald's fourth affirmative:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16268

            Baty's fourth rebuttal:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16269

            McDonald's fifth affirmative:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16273

            Baty's fifth rebuttal:

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Maury_ and_Baty/ message/16274

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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          • Robert Baty
            Jerry, No problem here. You are welcome to my testimony, such as it is. I figure you and Marion can work it out...or not. I didn t take it that you were
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
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              Jerry,

              No problem here.

              You are welcome to my testimony, such as it is.

              I figure you and Marion can work it out...or not.

              I didn't take it that you were persecuting Marion.

              I still think the problem has to do with the "it" in "who started it"; but I haven't the inclination now to try and sort it out for you and Marion

              Then again, if the two of you want to ask me to mediate that part of the dispute for you....? :o)

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty

              ------------Jerry's Message----------------

              To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
              From: Jerry McDonald
              Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:43 PM

              Subject: Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

              No this whole thing comes back to the debate on the Cornelius thing.

              Marion and I talked about debating that, but then I suggested we debate the role of the woman.

              Now he feels persecuted and is trying to make me decide whether or not to mark him.

              I told him that he is the one who invited me to debate on the Cornelius thing.

              He told me that either I had a bad memory or was loose with the facts.

              I was just thanking you for bringing up the fact that you initiated this thing.

              I did not go looking to persecute Marion Fox.

              If I start a debate I have no problem with admitting it, but I won't be falsely charged with one.

              jdm

              ----------------------------------------
              ----------------------------------------



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            • Jerry McDonald
              Well Marion and I had set it up to have an oral debate sometime this year and then I had to move to next year.  But my health just seems to be declining
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Well Marion and I had set it up to have an oral debate sometime this year and then I had to move to next year.  But my health just seems to be declining steadily so I wrote him and told him that I didn't think that I was going to be able to do an oral debate that perhaps a written one would be better.  I didn't hear from him again until this past week when he started writing trying to find out if I was going to mark him or not.  So I don't know what's wrong with him.

                Speaking of oral debates, unless my health improves I won't be able to do one with Dan Barker either.  I don't get out at all except to attend services and go to the doctor anymore.  I speak for about 30 minutes and it just wears me out, and I'm sure that an oral debate would do me in.

                jdm




                ________________________________
                From: Robert Baty <rlbaty@...>
                To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:51:59 PM
                Subject: [M & B] Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

                 
                Jerry,

                No problem here.

                You are welcome to my testimony, such as it is.

                I figure you and Marion can work it out...or not.

                I didn't take it that you were persecuting Marion.

                I still think the problem has to do with the "it" in "who started it"; but I haven't the inclination now to try and sort it out for you and Marion

                Then again, if the two of you want to ask me to mediate that part of the dispute for you....? :o)

                Sincerely,
                Robert Baty

                ------------ Jerry's Message----- --------- --

                To: Maury_and_Baty@ yahoogroups. com
                From: Jerry McDonald
                Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009 9:43 PM

                Subject: Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

                No this whole thing comes back to the debate on the Cornelius thing.

                Marion and I talked about debating that, but then I suggested we debate the role of the woman.

                Now he feels persecuted and is trying to make me decide whether or not to mark him.

                I told him that he is the one who invited me to debate on the Cornelius thing.

                He told me that either I had a bad memory or was loose with the facts.

                I was just thanking you for bringing up the fact that you initiated this thing.

                I did not go looking to persecute Marion Fox.

                If I start a debate I have no problem with admitting it, but I won't be falsely charged with one.

                jdm

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              • Robert Baty
                Jerry, It is still my considered opinion that you and Marion should have started off with the written debate regarding Cornelius and the baptism of the Holy
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jerry,

                  It is still my considered opinion that you and Marion should have started off with the written debate regarding Cornelius and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

                  While the relative significance of that issue may be disputed, I think it would have made a much better subject than what now appears to have caused quite a rift between the two of you.

                  I would have also liked to have had the Barker/McDonald discussion proceed; in part because of Barker's association with church/state issues currently in the news and possibly upcoming.

                  If your sister Nelta can tough it out as long as she has, maybe you will be able to as well!

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty

                  ------------Jerry's Message---------------

                  To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                  From: Jerry McDonald
                  Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009 10:01 PM

                  Subject: Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

                  Well Marion and I had set it up to have an oral debate sometime this year and then I had to move to next year.

                  But my health just seems to be declining steadily so I wrote him and told him that I didn't think that I was going to be able to do an oral debate that perhaps a written one would be better.

                  I didn't hear from him again until this past week when he started writing trying to find out if I was going to mark him or not.

                  So I don't know what's wrong with him.

                  Speaking of oral debates, unless my health improves I won't be able to do one with Dan Barker either.

                  I don't get out at all except to attend services and go to the doctor anymore.

                  I speak for about 30 minutes and it just wears me out, and I'm sure that an oral debate would do me in.

                  jdm

                  -----------------------------------------
                  -----------------------------------------



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                • Jerry McDonald
                  Yeah, but Nelta s not going to be doing any public debating either.  :) jdm ________________________________ From: Robert Baty To:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yeah, but Nelta's not going to be doing any public debating either.  :)
                    jdm




                    ________________________________
                    From: Robert Baty <rlbaty@...>
                    To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 10:15:58 PM
                    Subject: [M & B] Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

                     
                    Jerry,

                    It is still my considered opinion that you and Marion should have started off with the written debate regarding Cornelius and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

                    While the relative significance of that issue may be disputed, I think it would have made a much better subject than what now appears to have caused quite a rift between the two of you.

                    I would have also liked to have had the Barker/McDonald discussion proceed; in part because of Barker's association with church/state issues currently in the news and possibly upcoming.

                    If your sister Nelta can tough it out as long as she has, maybe you will be able to as well!

                    Sincerely,
                    Robert Baty

                    ------------ Jerry's Message----- --------- -

                    To: Maury_and_Baty@ yahoogroups. com
                    From: Jerry McDonald
                    Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009 10:01 PM

                    Subject: Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

                    Well Marion and I had set it up to have an oral debate sometime this year and then I had to move to next year.

                    But my health just seems to be declining steadily so I wrote him and told him that I didn't think that I was going to be able to do an oral debate that perhaps a written one would be better.

                    I didn't hear from him again until this past week when he started writing trying to find out if I was going to mark him or not.

                    So I don't know what's wrong with him.

                    Speaking of oral debates, unless my health improves I won't be able to do one with Dan Barker either.

                    I don't get out at all except to attend services and go to the doctor anymore.

                    I speak for about 30 minutes and it just wears me out, and I'm sure that an oral debate would do me in.

                    jdm

                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jerry McDonald
                    I am hoping that my health will improve, but I will have to see; 2010 is still a while away (not really ), but I don t know.  I haven t even contacted Dan
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I am hoping that my health will improve, but I will have to see; 2010 is still a while away (not really ), but I don't know.  I haven't even contacted Dan yet.  I have been so busy with door knocking campaigns and other things.  I have one more of those in Texas in the fall (if my health holds out--I went down in June and spent a week in the hospital, I am kinda leary about going back if you know what I mean).
                      jdm




                      ________________________________
                      From: Robert Baty <rlbaty@...>
                      To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 10:15:58 PM
                      Subject: [M & B] Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

                       
                      Jerry,

                      It is still my considered opinion that you and Marion should have started off with the written debate regarding Cornelius and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

                      While the relative significance of that issue may be disputed, I think it would have made a much better subject than what now appears to have caused quite a rift between the two of you.

                      I would have also liked to have had the Barker/McDonald discussion proceed; in part because of Barker's association with church/state issues currently in the news and possibly upcoming.

                      If your sister Nelta can tough it out as long as she has, maybe you will be able to as well!

                      Sincerely,
                      Robert Baty

                      ------------ Jerry's Message----- --------- -

                      To: Maury_and_Baty@ yahoogroups. com
                      From: Jerry McDonald
                      Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009 10:01 PM

                      Subject: Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

                      Well Marion and I had set it up to have an oral debate sometime this year and then I had to move to next year.

                      But my health just seems to be declining steadily so I wrote him and told him that I didn't think that I was going to be able to do an oral debate that perhaps a written one would be better.

                      I didn't hear from him again until this past week when he started writing trying to find out if I was going to mark him or not.

                      So I don't know what's wrong with him.

                      Speaking of oral debates, unless my health improves I won't be able to do one with Dan Barker either.

                      I don't get out at all except to attend services and go to the doctor anymore.

                      I speak for about 30 minutes and it just wears me out, and I'm sure that an oral debate would do me in.

                      jdm

                      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Robert Baty
                      Jerry, I guess I had it easy; relatively speaking! :o) I had a problem. They cut me open, stitched up my heart (double bypass), and solved my problem; for now!
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 6, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jerry,

                        I guess I had it easy; relatively speaking! :o)

                        I had a problem.

                        They cut me open, stitched up my heart (double bypass), and solved my problem; for now!

                        Sincerely,
                        Robert Baty

                        --------------Your Message-----------------

                        To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
                        From: Jerry McDonald
                        Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009 10:35 PM

                        Subject: Re: Update on the Cornelius debate!

                        I am hoping that my health will improve, but I will have to see; 2010 is still a while away (not really ), but I don't know.

                        I haven't even contacted Dan yet. I have been so busy with door knocking campaigns and other things.

                        I have one more of those in Texas in the fall
                        (if my health holds out--I went down in June and spent a week in the hospital, I am kinda leary about going back if you know what I mean).

                        jdm

                        --------------------------------------
                        --------------------------------------



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