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ACU Professor wants evolution taught in all religious universities in TX

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  • Jerry McDonald
    Biology Professor, Daniel Brannan, at Abilene Christian University joined hundreds of other professors in signing the 21st Century Science Coalition
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 9, 2009
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      Biology Professor, Daniel Brannan, at Abilene Christian University joined hundreds of other professors in signing the 21st Century Science Coalition Petition. 

      Part of this petition states: 

      > "evolution is an easily observable
      > phenomenon that has been documented
      > beyond any reasonable doubt." 

      Brannan wants to make it to where the weaknesses of "evolution" will not be taught in Christian universities, that only the strengths will be. 

      Back in the early 80's some brethren tried to warn the brotherhood about what was going on at ACU, and most people dug their heads in the sand and denied it. 

      Well, here it is fully evolved. 

      Following is the link to the article in whole:
       
      http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/1.18.html
       
      This is what happens when we pretend that nothing is going on. 

      At one time we could have stopped this monster, but now all we can do is do our best at fighting it.
       
      In Christ Jesus
      Jerry D. McDonald
    • Robert Baty
      ... Christianity Today Darwin Divides Christian college professors split on Texas science standards. Bobby Ross Jr. A Texas-sized battle over scrapping a
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 9, 2009
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        Here's the text of the article with some reader reviews:

        ------------------------------------------

        Christianity Today

        Darwin Divides
        Christian college professors split on Texas science standards.

        Bobby Ross Jr.

        A Texas-sized battle over scrapping a longtime requirement that Lone Star State students be taught weaknesses in the theory of evolution has split politicians, parents, and professors who teach biology at the state's Christian universities.

        > "I hope to reach others on the
        > weightier matters of the Resurrection,
        > hope of eternal life, and the kingdom
        > of heaven while I work out how
        > evolution does not have to conflict
        > with Christianity,"

        said Daniel Brannan, a biology professor at Abilene Christian University.

        Brannan joined hundreds of scientists in signing a 21st Century Science Coalition petition that supports new curriculum standards for the state's 4.7 million public-school students.

        The petition states that

        > "evolution is an easily observable
        > phenomenon that has been
        > documented beyond any reasonable
        > doubt."

        Among other petition signers were science professors from Baylor, Hardin-Simmons, McMurry, and Texas Christian—all Texas universities with Christian ties.

        But other Christian biology professors have aligned themselves with the Discovery Institute in signing a petition titled "A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism."

        > "We are skeptical of claims for the
        > ability of random mutation and
        > natural selection to account for
        > the complexity of life. Careful
        > examination of the evidence for
        > Darwinian theory should be
        > encouraged,"

        declared the hundreds of dissenters, including biology professors from Baylor, Lubbock Christian, LeTourneau, and other Christian universities.

        The state board of education has given preliminary approval to new standards that remove wording that schools teach evolution's "weaknesses."

        A final review of the new standards was scheduled for March.

        Proponents of focusing on evolution's strengths say their goal is simple:

        > Teach science in science class.

        But dissenters say that teaching science requires including weaknesses, since new information constantly arises from research.

        LeTourneau biology professor Amiel Jarstfer said he testified before the state Board of Education in January that

        > "good science is based on continuous
        > questioning and critique.

        > "I would side with Newton in that I
        > believe that the existence of a Creator
        > gives me reason to search for order in
        > the universe,"

        Jarstfer said.

        > "The more I study molecular cell
        > biology, the more I am in awe of
        > the majesty of the Creator."

        While many took sides, some—including Jim Nichols, chair of Abilene Christian's biology department—declined to sign a petition.

        > "[Petitions] too often oversimplify
        > causes,"

        Nichols said.

        > "I suspect [the curriculum debate]
        > is really more of a political/religious
        > showcase than something that will
        > really affect public education.

        > "I and many others live relatively
        > comfortably in both camps and tire
        > from attacks from both sides,"

        he added.

        > "With all the real problems in the
        > world, this is a serious waste of
        > energy to keep beating on this topic."


        [Reader Reviews]

        James Reid Ross
        Posted: March 06, 2009 11:42 PM

        I think a lot of people believe in evolution simply because they don't want to believe in God.

        Darwin said of his own theory that it may be disproved if scientific evidence indicated something different.

        I think modern science is and will disprove the evolutionary theory.

        Let Truth reign, I put that in Capital for we know the source of Truth and that is the Holy Spirit who hovered over the formless mass and created the world as we know it today.

        By HIM and through HIM were all things created. This is my FATHERS world.

        love
        James Reid Ross



        James Saunders
        Posted: March 05, 2009 5:01 AM

        I hate to have to point this out to you guys but you should have been doing your own research anyway.

        The emergence of new species (macroevolution) has been directly observed in both the laboratory and in the wild.

        http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

        http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html

        The problem with these so called 'weaknesses' of evolution is that scientists regard them as erroneous and based on misunderstandings and flawed interpretations.

        To present to the kids that the scientific community is somehow divided on this issue is plain disingenuous.

        http://www.interacademies.net/Object.File/Master/6/150/Evolu tion%20statement.pdf

        http://ncseweb.org/taking-action/project-steve

        http: //nationalacademies.org/evolution/TheoryOrFact.html



        Dr. James Willingham
        Posted: March 03, 2009 8:01 PM

        The effort to keep evolution from having to share the stage with intelligent design reminds me of the poor doctor who introduced the washing of hands before examining patients.

        They locked him up in a mental institution.

        The creationists call attention to the glaring errors of evolutionists, and the intellectual gaffes in the latter camp are real howlers which even Ken Hovind can make obvious.

        What no one seems to notice is that there is a problem with the scientific method; it suffers from the paralysis of analysis along with a failure to take into account that a basic issue might be two sided and require a synthetical approach which seeks to address pradoxical reality.

        ---------------------------------------
        ---------------------------------------


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jerry McDonald
        Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:53 PM
        To: Bulletins Plus
        Subject: [M & B] ACU Professor wants evolution taught in all religious universities in TX

        Biology Professor, Daniel Brannan, at Abilene Christian University joined hundreds of other professors in signing the 21st Century Science Coalition Petition.�

        Part of this petition states:�

        > "evolution is an easily observable
        > phenomenon that has been documented
        > beyond any reasonable doubt."�

        Brannan wants to make it to where the weaknesses of "evolution" will not be taught in Christian universities, that only the strengths will be.�

        Back in the early 80's some brethren tried to warn the brotherhood about what was going on at ACU, and most people dug their heads in the sand and denied it.�

        Well, here it is fully evolved.�

        Following is the link to the article in whole:
        �
        http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/1.18.html
        �
        This is what happens when we pretend that nothing is going on.�

        At one time we could have stopped this monster, but now all we can do is do our best at fighting it.
        �
        In Christ Jesus
        Jerry D. McDonald



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Robert Baty
        Alan Highers, editor of The Spiritual Sword , posted the link to the Stone-Campbell list under the subject line ACU and Evolution without comment. Following
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 10, 2009
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          Alan Highers, editor of "The Spiritual Sword", posted the link to the Stone-Campbell list under the subject line "ACU and Evolution" without comment.

          Following is the reply I sent:

          To: Stone-Campbell@...
          From: Robert Baty

          Subject: Re: ACU and Evolution
          Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:27 AM

          Here's an exchange on that issue that recently appeared on another list:

          --------------------------------------

          Jerry D. McDonald wrote:

          > Biology Professor, Daniel Brannan,
          > at Abilene Christian University joined
          > hundreds of other professors in signing
          > the 21st Century Science Coalition
          > Petition. Part of this petition states:

          >> "evolution is an easily observable
          >> phenomenon that has been
          >> documented beyond any reasonable
          >> doubt."

          > Brannan wants to make it to where
          > the weaknesses of "evolution" will not
          > be taught in Christian universities,
          > that only the strengths will be.

          > Back in the early 80's some brethren
          > tried to warn the brotherhood about
          > what was going on at ACU, and most
          > people dug their heads in the sand
          > and denied it.

          > Well, here it is fully evolved.

          > This is what happens when we pretend
          > that nothing is going on. At one time
          > we could have stopped this monster,
          > but now all we can do is do our best
          > at fighting it.

          To which Todd S. Greene responded with:

          > Jerry completely ignores the context
          > of what is going on and the context
          > of the words being used.

          > Creationists themselves have proved
          > that when they use the code
          > phrase "weaknesses of evolution"
          > they're referring to their own
          > creationist anti-evolution arguments
          > that they've used for decades and
          > that have been refuted a thousand
          > times.

          > *They* are NOT using the phrase to
          > refer to genuine scientific issues about
          > evolution that are being studied in
          > professional science! by professional
          > scientists.

          > AND IT IS BECAUSE O F THIS that
          > proves that it is all just another
          > political strategy by creationists to
          > shove their religion-motivated
          > pseudoscience down childrens' throats
          > in public school science classes in
          > violation of the Establishment Clause
          > of the First Amendment.

          > Jerry is also giving us another example
          > of the denominational nature of the
          > Church Of Christ (just like other
          > denominations), and how the "Church
          > Of Christ" has split again.

          > The "Contending For The Faith" group
          > and others like them (such as Jerry
          > McDonald, who for example teaches
          > that Christians who disagree with his
          > young earth creationism doctrine are
          > not really Christians at all but are
          > atheists; and David Willis who is all
          > the time insinuating that Christians
          > who disagree with his young earth
          > creationism doctrine are go! ing to hell
          > for rejecting God's Word) have already
          > long since recognized the split de facto
          > and act accordingly.

          You'll notice the implication regarding the related issue being discussed here as to "why they leave/left".

          Sincerely,
          Robert Baty

          --------------Alan's Message---------------

          From: Alan Highers
          Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:18 AM
          To: Stone-Campbell@...

          Subject: ACU and Evolution

          http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/1.18.html

          -------------------------------------------
          -------------------------------------------


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Todd S. Greene
          Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:13 AM
          To: coCBanned@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [coCBanned] Re: ACU Professor wants evolution taught in all religious universities in TX

          Of course - as always - Jerry completely ignores the context of what is going on and the context of the words being used. Creationists themselves have proved that when they use the code phrase "weaknesses of evolution" they're referring to their own creationist anti-evolution arguments that they've used for decades and that have been refuted a thousand times. *They* are NOT using the phrase to refer to genuine scientific issues about evolution that are being studied in professional science by professional scientists. AND IT IS BECAUSE OF THIS that proves that it is all just another political strategy by creationists to shove their religion-motivated pseudoscience down childrens' throats in public school science classes in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

          And, as we already know, it is the deliberate intention of creationists to violate the Establishment Clause because they think it's wrong (this is what they have told us explicitly) and they desperately want to fool kids in public schools with their religion-motivated beliefs.

          Jerry is also giving us another example of the denominational nature of the Church Of Christ (just like other denominations), and how the "Church Of Christ" has split again. The "Contending For The Faith" group and others like them (such as Jerry McDonald, who for example teaches that Christians who disagree with his young earth creationism doctrine are not really Christians at all but are atheists; and David Willis who is all the time insinuating that Christians who disagree with his young earth creationism doctrine are going to hell for rejecting God's Word) have already long since recognized the split de facto and act accordingly.

          - Todd Greene


          --- In coCBanned@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McDonald <jerry@...> wrote:
          > Biology Professor, Daniel Brannan, at Abilene Christian
          > University joined hundreds of other professors in signing
          > the 21st Century Science Coalition Petition. Part of this
          > petition states: "evolution is an easily observable
          > phenomenon that has been documented beyond any reasonable
          > doubt." Brannan wants to make it to where the weaknesses
          > of "evolution" will not be taught in Christian universities,
          > that only the strengths will be.�Back in the early 80's some
          > brethren tried to warn the brotherhood about what was going
          > on at ACU, and most people dug their heads in the sand and
          > denied it.�Well, here it is fully evolved.�Following is the
          > link to the article in whole:
          > �
          > http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/1.18.html
          > �
          > This is what happens when we pretend that nothing is going on.� At one time we could have stopped this monster, but now all we can do is do our best at fighting it.
          > �
          > In Christ Jesus
          > Jerry D. McDonald




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Chad Longley
          Everyone loves a good witch hunt. The events to which you refer in the 80s were nothing more than one student s attempt at 15 minutes of infamy. This wasn t
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 10, 2009
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            Everyone loves a good witch hunt.

            The events to which you refer in the 80s were nothing more than one
            student's attempt at 15 minutes of infamy. This wasn't the first trouble he
            had caused at ACU, nor was it the last. In the end, he was not allowed to
            finish his education at ACU. He bragged to his classmates about how much
            trouble he had caused for Dr. Manis. These classmates then reported his
            bragging to the Trustees. His 15 minutes was over.

            I suppose that the primary leader in that witch hunt won't be involved in
            this one, will he...

            Now, I suppose I'll go back into lurking around this list...


            - Chad Longley


            On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>wrote:

            > Biology Professor, Daniel Brannan, at Abilene Christian University
            > joined hundreds of other professors in signing the 21st Century Science
            > Coalition Petition.
            >
            > Part of this petition states:
            >
            > > "evolution is an easily observable
            > > phenomenon that has been documented
            > > beyond any reasonable doubt."
            >
            > Brannan wants to make it to where the weaknesses of "evolution" will not be
            > taught in Christian universities, that only the strengths will be.
            >
            > Back in the early 80's some brethren tried to warn the brotherhood about
            > what was going on at ACU, and most people dug their heads in the sand and
            > denied it.
            >
            > Well, here it is fully evolved.
            >
            > Following is the link to the article in whole:
            >
            > http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/1.18.html
            >
            > This is what happens when we pretend that nothing is going on.
            >
            > At one time we could have stopped this monster, but now all we can do is do
            > our best at fighting it.
            >
            > In Christ Jesus
            > Jerry D. McDonald
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robert Baty
            Chad, Glad to see you are still out there! Thanks for your comments. Sincerely, Robert Baty ... From: Chad Longley Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:50 AM To:
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 10, 2009
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              Chad,

              Glad to see you are still out there!

              Thanks for your comments.

              Sincerely,
              Robert Baty


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Chad Longley
              Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:50 AM
              To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [M & B] ACU Professor wants evolution taught in all religious universities in TX

              Everyone loves a good witch hunt.

              The events to which you refer in the 80s were nothing more than one
              student's attempt at 15 minutes of infamy. This wasn't the first trouble he
              had caused at ACU, nor was it the last. In the end, he was not allowed to
              finish his education at ACU. He bragged to his classmates about how much
              trouble he had caused for Dr. Manis. These classmates then reported his
              bragging to the Trustees. His 15 minutes was over.

              I suppose that the primary leader in that witch hunt won't be involved in
              this one, will he...

              Now, I suppose I'll go back into lurking around this list...


              - Chad Longley


              On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>wrote:

              > Biology Professor, Daniel Brannan, at Abilene Christian University
              > joined hundreds of other professors in signing the 21st Century Science
              > Coalition Petition.
              >
              > Part of this petition states:
              >
              > > "evolution is an easily observable
              > > phenomenon that has been documented
              > > beyond any reasonable doubt."
              >
              > Brannan wants to make it to where the weaknesses of "evolution" will not be
              > taught in Christian universities, that only the strengths will be.
              >
              > Back in the early 80's some brethren tried to warn the brotherhood about
              > what was going on at ACU, and most people dug their heads in the sand and
              > denied it.
              >
              > Well, here it is fully evolved.
              >
              > Following is the link to the article in whole:
              >
              > http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/1.18.html
              >
              > This is what happens when we pretend that nothing is going on.
              >
              > At one time we could have stopped this monster, but now all we can do is do
              > our best at fighting it.
              >
              > In Christ Jesus
              > Jerry D. McDonald
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jerry McDonald
              Jerry McDonald You know it is always a pleasure to deal with Todd on matters pertaining to ACU and its history with evolutionary teachings because he is a
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 10, 2009
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                Jerry McDonald

                You know it is always a pleasure to deal with Todd on matters pertaining to ACU and its history with evolutionary teachings because he is a product of ACU, and while he did not take biology at ACU (at least he has not so stated) he did take astronomy and there began his journey into atheism.�

                I always love it when he so desperately defends ACU because it lets me know that he doesn�t want people to find out what ACU was up to and is still up to.�

                He wants more young people to go through that school and come out and end up as atheists like him

                --- In coCBanned@yahoogroups.com, "Todd S. Greene" <greeneto@...> wrote:

                Of course - as always - Jerry completely ignores the context of what is going on and the context of the words being used. Creationists themselves have proved that when they use the code phrase "weaknesses of evolution" they're referring to their own creationist anti-evolution arguments that they've used for decades and that have been refuted a thousand times. *They* are NOT using the phrase to refer to genuine scientific issues about evolution that are being studied in professional science by professional scientists. AND IT IS BECAUSE OF THIS that proves that it is all just another political strategy by creationists to shove their religion-motivated pseudoscience down childrens' throats in public school science classes in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

                Jerry McDonald

                Whatever the weaknesses to which the article refers are, the signers of the petition don�t want the students to know about them.� Why?� This is the question that was raised by the ID proponents.� Good science is to study the weaknesses and the strengths.� Why just study the strengths of evolution, and not the weaknesses of it?� Could it be that there are more weaknesses than strengths?� The article had this to say:

                �Proponents of focusing on evolution's strengths say their goal is simple: Teach science in science class. But dissenters say that teaching science requires including weaknesses, since new information constantly arises from research� (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/1.18.html).

                What is wrong with teaching the weaknesses of evolution right along with the strengths?� Evolutionists don�t want that, those who are opposing this do and that is what they are referring to as �weaknesses.�� That is what I am referring to as �weaknesses.�� Todd, once again, has jumped the gun and started making rash assumptions without ever finding out what I thought the word �weakness� meant.� He is so self assured that he thinks he knows everything.� If this is the best he can do, I really do look forward to his first negative in our written debate; it is going to be quite entertaining.

                Todd Greene

                And, as we already know, it is the deliberate intention of creationists to violate the Establishment Clause because they think it's wrong (this is what they have told us explicitly) and they desperately want to fool kids in public schools with their religion-motivated beliefs.

                Jerry McDonald

                We are not talking about public schools here, we are talking about private Christian schools.� Notice, again, the article if you will:

                �A Texas-sized battle over scrapping a longtime requirement that Lone Star State students be taught weaknesses in the theory of evolution has split politicians, parents, and professors who teach biology at the state's Christian universities� (Ibid).

                Notice my emphasis on Christian universities.� Was anything said about public schools?�� Well�yes, actually:

                �Brannan joined hundreds of scientists in signing a 21st Century Science Coalition petition that supports new curriculum standards for the state's 4.7 million public-school students. The petition states that �evolution is an easily observable phenomenon that has been documented beyond any reasonable doubt�" (Ibid).

                However, Brannan wasn�t signing the curriculum for the state�s public school students.� He was signing a 21st Century Science Coalition petition that supports new curriculum STANDARDS that the state has for the public school students.� In other words, Todd, Brannan wants the same thing taught in Christian universities that is taught in state schools.

                Todd Greene

                Jerry is also giving us another example of the denominational nature of the Church Of Christ (just like other denominations), and how the "Church Of Christ" has split again. The "Contending For The Faith" group and others like them (such as Jerry McDonald, who for example teaches that Christians who disagree with his young earth creationism doctrine are not really Christians at all but are atheists; and David Willis who is all the time insinuating that Christians who disagree with his young earth creationism doctrine are going to hell for rejecting God's Word) have already long since recognized the split de facto and act accordingly.

                - Todd Greene

                Jerry McDonald

                No, Todd, I don�t believe that anyone who disagrees with me over young earth creationism is an atheists.� However, when a brother in Christ would rather sit at the table of an atheist in a debate against another brother in Christ, he has placed himself in the atheists camp.� For all practical purposes he is an atheist.� He may not go by the name, but for all practical purposes he is one.� No self respecting Christian would even think about moderating for an atheist against a brother in Christ unless he wanted to be counted in the atheist camp.� When Robert Baty agreed to moderate for you against me when we were going to have our debate orally, he placed himself in the atheists camp.� Think what you will, but that is the long and the short of it.

                In Christ Jesus
                Jerry D. McDonald

                --- In coCBanned@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McDonald <jerry@> wrote:

                > Biology Professor, Daniel Brannan, at Abilene Christian
                > University joined hundreds of other professors in signing
                > the 21st Century Science Coalition Petition. Part of this
                > petition states: "evolution is an easily observable
                > phenomenon that has been documented beyond any reasonable
                > doubt." Brannan wants to make it to where the weaknesses
                > of "evolution" will not be taught in Christian universities,
                > that only the strengths will be. Back in the early 80's some
                > brethren tried to warn the brotherhood about what was going
                > on at ACU, and most people dug their heads in the sand and
                > denied it. Well, here it is fully evolved. Following is the
                > link to the article in whole:
                >�
                > http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/april/1.18.html
                >�
                > This is what happens when we pretend that nothing is going on.� At one time we could have stopped this monster, but now all we can do is do our best at fighting it.
                >�
                > In Christ Jesus
                > Jerry D. McDonald

                --- End forwarded message ---
              • Robert Baty
                ... From: Jerry D. McDonald To: coCBanned@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:24 PM Subject: Re: ACU Professor wants evolution taught in all
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 10, 2009
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                  --------------Forwarded Message----------

                  From: Jerry D. McDonald
                  To: coCBanned@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:24 PM

                  Subject: Re: ACU Professor wants evolution taught in all religious universities in TX

                  Robert, how do you get to the Stone-Campbell list?

                  jdm

                  -------------------------------------------
                  -------------------------------------------

                  Before noticing that Jerry had posted a followup note indicating he had found on his own the answer to his question, I submitted the following reply to the above post:

                  -----------Forwarded Message-----------

                  From: Robert Baty
                  To: coCBanned@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:32 PM

                  Subject: Re: ACU Professor wants evolution taught in all religious universities in TX

                  Jerry writes:

                  > Robert, how do you get to
                  > the Stone-Campbell list?

                  It's a secret!

                  I might break the code of silence and tell him, but, from past experience, he wouldn't appreciate my help.

                  So, I'll just let him work on finding out on his own..

                  Sincerely,
                  Robert Baty

                  P.S. I have recently quoted Jerry a couple of times on that list. I can hardly wait to see if Jerry finds out how he has been represented and can make his way on to the list to reply.

                  ------------------------------------------
                  ------------------------------------------



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