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Questions concerning the creation days

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  • Jerry McDonald
    Is there anything in the Genesis account of creation that demands that the creation days be considered as anything but literal days as we know them? If God had
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 3, 2008
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      Is there anything in the Genesis account of creation that demands that the creation days be considered as anything but literal days as we know them?

      If God had wanted us to understand that he created the world in six literal 24 hour days, what would he have said to make it clear to us that this is what he did?

      If the creation days are not literal days then they are figurative days. If they are figurative, then what figure of speech is used and why is it used?

      If a figure of speech is used in reference to the creation days, what specially designed purpose is this figure being used to point out to us?

      In Christ Jesus
      Jerry D. McDonald




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • w_w_c_l
      Re: Questions concerning the creation days ... Yes. The deep is not oceans, as we know them. Waters , as we know them, are not out there beyond the stars.
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 9, 2008
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        Re: Questions concerning the creation days



        --- In coCBanned@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McDonald
        <jerry@...> wrote:
        >
        > Is there anything in the Genesis account of creation
        > that demands that the creation days be considered as
        > anything but literal days as we know them?

        Yes.

        "The deep" is not oceans, as we know them.

        "Waters", as we know them, are not out there beyond
        the stars.

        "Earth", as we know it, is not surrounded by water.

        "Trees", as we know them, do not produce fruit that
        one can eat and live forever.

        "Snakes", as we know them, don't talk.


        > If God had wanted us to understand that he created
        > the world in six literal 24 hour days, what would
        > he have said to make it clear to us that this is
        > what he did?

        That's a pretty long list!

        Briefly, He would have removed the figurative language
        from Genesis and told us straight out that the "serpent"
        was the devil.


        > If the creation days are not literal days then they
        > are figurative days. If they are figurative, then
        > what figure of speech is used and why is it used?

        They are figurative of long, undefined periods of time.

        The figure was used because the Genesis account was
        originally orally transmitted and they are memory
        aids for the order of creation -- besides, those early
        people couldn't count very high.


        > If a figure of speech is used in reference to the
        > creation days, what specially designed purpose is
        > this figure being used to point out to us?

        That God is still creating -- we are still in the
        6th Day.

        I have told you this before. In Terry's recent message
        he used the same verses you use to try to make your case,
        and when I pointed out the problems with that you never
        responded.

        Terry said (on coCBanned, in message #10871):

        > Gen 2:1-3
        > Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of
        > them, were finished.

        We see stars coming into existence right now. They are
        part of the "host of heaven".


        > 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He
        > had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all
        > His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the
        > seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested
        > from all His work which God had created and made. NKJV

        > Ex 20:8-11- "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it
        > holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
        > 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your
        > God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son,
        > nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your
        > female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who
        > is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made
        > the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in
        > them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD
        > blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. NKJV


        OK -- God rested from *all the works which he had made* --
        in *six days* He made the heavens, the Earth, the seas,
        and *all that in them is*.

        And God is telling this to Israel. But God *created*
        Israel:

        Isa 43:1
        But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob,
        and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have
        redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art
        mine.

        Isa 43:7
        Even every one that is called by my name: for I have
        created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have
        made him.

        Isa 43:21
        This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew
        forth my praise.

        Isa 44:2
        Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from
        the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my
        servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

        Isa 44:21
        Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant:
        I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou
        shalt not be forgotten of me.


        What "day" was it when God created Israel, Jerry and Terry?


        And it is not just Israel, either.

        Ps 102:18
        This shall be written for the generation to come: and
        the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.

        Ps 104:30
        Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and
        thou renewest the face of the earth.

        Isa 48:7
        They are created now, and not from the beginning; even
        before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou
        shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

        Isa 54:16
        Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals
        in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for
        his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

        Jer 31:22
        How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter?
        for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A
        woman shall compass a man.

        And there is still more:

        Eph 2:10
        For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto
        good works, which God hath before ordained that we should
        walk in them.

        Eph 4:24
        And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created
        in righteousness and true holiness.

        Col 1:16
        For by him were all things created, that are in heaven,
        and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether
        they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or
        powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


        So we see that God has been creating all the way through.

        Jesus said, My Father worketh hitherto. (John 5:17)

        If it was the 6th Day when Man was created, it is still
        the 6th Day. God has not yet rested. God said, at the
        provocation in the wilderness, "They shall not enter my
        rest." (Psalm 95:11) God wasn't resting when He led
        Israel out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched
        arm -- God doesn't take a day off every Earthly week.

        The heavens are stretched forth by His power -- and they
        don't stop being stretched forth every 144 hours.

        In Psalm 90, the entire generation of mankind is but
        part of a day -- and they are "carried away as with a flood."

        I have already given you the excerpt from the Epistle of
        Barnabas:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coCBanned/message/5969

        I have explained that the order of creation is what we
        find in the fossil record, that "Let there be light" took
        hundreds of thousands of years, that man never became man
        as we know him until he had disobeyed God.

        The Genesis creation account is an explanation for the
        human condition -- why we are the way we are. We have
        left off from the purpose for which we were put here, to
        dress and keep the Garden, and we have destroyed it instead.

        A defining moment in the Genesis creation account is the
        beginning of agriculture. It is the practice of agriculture
        that has given us what we call "civilization", but in the
        practice of agriculture and the advance of civilization we
        have overrun the natural systems that God created to sustain
        life on Earth for billions of years. (Those four rivers
        in Eden may be seen as these systems.) After we had been
        happily living in the "Garden" for hundreds of thousands or
        a couple of million years, we decided to start running things
        ourselves -- less than about 10,000 years ago, less than 1%
        of the time we have been on Earth -- and in that blink of
        time we have come to the point where we are destroying not
        only everything that lives on the planet but ourselves as
        well.

        These things are true.

        I know you would rather hold to your literalistic
        interpretation of Genesis so you won't have to face up to
        the reality of what we have done to God's Garden, but there
        is no escape from the path we have gone down. "In the day
        ye eat thereof, ye shall surely die," is today, *this* "day",
        the last day of Creation.



        Rick Hartzog
        Worldwide Church of Latitudinarianism

        ----------------------------------------------


        --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, Jerry McDonald <jerry@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Is there anything in the Genesis account of creation
        > that demands that the creation days be considered as
        > anything but literal days as we know them?
        >
        > If God had wanted us to understand that he created the
        > world in six literal 24 hour days, what would he have
        > said to make it clear to us that this is what he did?
        >
        > If the creation days are not literal days then they are
        > figurative days. If they are figurative, then what
        > figure of speech is used and why is it used?
        >
        > If a figure of speech is used in reference to the
        > creation days, what specially designed purpose is this
        > figure being used to point out to us?
        >
        > In Christ Jesus
        > Jerry D. McDonald
        >
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