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Re: A review of my remedial Logic 101 students' latest failures!

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  • Robert Baty
    Veto Roley has now checked in and confirmed that he, like Terry & Jerry, is unable to accept the fundamental principles of sound reasoning which are the core
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 30, 2008
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      Veto Roley has now checked in and confirmed that he, like Terry & Jerry, is unable to accept the fundamental principles of sound reasoning which are the core to the class and is unable to find in his heart a place for repentance and bring forth his works meet for repentance.

      Following is Veto's class review which he, as with other matters, has simply run off from while continuing his ipse dixit fallacious, false and misleading claims:

      ------------------------------------

      (2) Veto Roley

      Veto Roley originally claimed that he could prove, based on Psalm 14:1, that "all atheists are fools" was the proper meaning/interpretation of "the fool says in his heart there is no God".

      I previously proposed that Veto Roley's Psalm 14:1 argument, briefly stated, was:

      > All fools are atheists.
      > Therefore, all atheists are
      > fools. Psalm 14:1.

      Now the unrepentant, evasive Veto Roley writes to the coCBanned list:

      > If you could read, you would
      > know that is not my argument.

      > If you could read, you would
      > know that I have explicitely
      > denied the argument you say
      > I am making.

      I can both read and reason, and I've pegged Veto Roley's argument, despite his denials, for just what it is.

      What Veto Roley needs to do is repent and bring forth his works meet for his repentance, admitting, explaining and correcting his false claim that he could prove that "all atheists are fools" is what "the fool says in his heart there is no God" means.

      If Veto Roley refuses to repent, and is now prepared to openly, honestly, and rationally and civilly deal with his Psalm 14:1 error, I will allow him to start over and pick explicitly which of the following arguments are properly drawn from his claim that he could prove that "all atheists are fools" is the meaning/interpretation of "the fool says in his heart there is no "God":

      (1) Psalm 14:1

      > Some fools say in their heart
      > there is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in their
      > heart there is no God are fools.

      (2) Psalm 14:1

      > A fool says in his heart there
      > is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in their
      > heart there is no God are fools.

      (3) Psalm 14:1

      > All fools says in their hearts
      > there is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in there
      > heart there is no God are fools.

      (4) Psalm 14:1

      > Seven fools say in their hearts
      > there is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in their
      > hearts there is no God are fools.

      (5) Psalm 14:1

      > Specify #________ fools say in their
      > hearts there is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in their
      > hearts there is no God are fools.

      Remember now, Veto was very explicit in claiming he could prove that "all atheists are fools" based on the Psalm 14:1 proposition that "the fool sayeth in his heart that there is no God". This is what he has run away from and refused to openly, honestly, rationally and civilly deal with.

      He now claims I have misrepresented the clear meaning of his claim.

      So, Veto Roley has the opportuntity to resolve any doubt, repent, and bring forth works meet for his repentance, by returning to his original claim which is the subject of my sound reasoning dispute with him, by picking one of the above five arguments that he thinks represents his claim that "all atheists are fools" is the proper meaning/interpretation of "the fool hath said in his heart there is no God".

      My proposition stands unrebutted; what Veto Roley claims he can do he cannot do according to the principles of sound reasoning.

      Yet, because he insists, we will give him yet another opportunity; beginning with his choice of one of the five arguments above.

      --------------------------------------

      My further comments:

      Regarding Veto Roley's original claim to prove that Psalm 14:1, "the fool sayeth in his heart there is no God", means "all atheists are fools", Veto Roley now writes:

      > I didn't just claim to prove that,

      >> if the Christian God exists,
      >> all atheists are fools...

      > I proved it.

      Who, even Veto, can fail to see his unrepentant effort to deceive and continue his unrepentant course.

      Veto's bold, impossible claim, was to "prove" that

      > the Psalm 14:1 statement that

      >> "the fool sayeth in his heart
      >> there is no God"

      > means

      >> "all atheists are fools".

      I think the evidence is clear that Veto knows he cannot meet his responsibilities regarding his claim and Veto knows he's not "man-up" to repenting of his fallacious reasoning, false and misleading claims.

      Without repenting, Veto has abandoned his bold, impossible claim and "two-column thingy". Veto needs to repent and not simply run off from his obligations related thereto.

      Veto Roley was asked about the following argument, its VALIDITY and SOUNDNESS:

      > The fool says there is no God.
      > Atheists say there is no God.
      > Therefore the atheist is a fool.

      Demonstrating why it is that Veto Roley has failed in all of his efforts to obtain a passing grade in the principles of sound reasoning, Veto Roley responded with his false ipse dixit claim:

      > Common sense says the the
      > argument is both valid and sound.

      That's one reason why the class was set up for Veto and others. They irrationally reason with non-sense, NOT common sense, and, in all these efforts, they haven't produced one recognized authority in the field that will even attempt to support their fallacious, false and misleading claims.

      The challenge is now before Veto and others to get Chuck Northrop, who is teaching such things this semester at the OABS ( http://www.oabs.org ) to weigh in on the matters. I have no doubts that Chuck Northrop, or his other OABS "logic" fellows, will be unable to do anything but agree with me on the principles of sound reasoning which are involved and point out, as I have done, the errors in the irrational reasoning, such as most recently demonstrated by Veto Roley, Terry W. Benton and Jerry D. McDonald.

      Despite our differences, I am confident that Chuck Northop and/or his OABS "logic" fellows, are in complete agreement with me.

      Gil Yoder, another OABS "logic" instructor, has already been documented as agreeing with me; after he was able to pass my class after years of effort to evade his responsibilities.

      Don't think so?

      Well, bring them on!

      I also have no doubts about Veto, et al, being unable to present any recognized authorities in sound reasoning that will endorse his fallacious claims. To date, Veto has already demonstrated that he has NO authorities in the field to reference in support of his fallacious claims.

      Here are the argument choices for Veto to choose from should he now wish to repent and begin his work meet for repentance:

      (1) Psalm 14:1

      > Some fools say in their heart
      > there is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in their
      > heart there is no God are fools.

      (2) Psalm 14:1

      > A fool says in his heart there
      > is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in their
      > heart there is no God are fools.

      (3) Psalm 14:1

      > All fools says in their hearts
      > there is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in there
      > heart there is no God are fools.

      (4) Psalm 14:1

      > Seven fools say in their hearts
      > there is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in their
      > hearts there is no God are fools.

      (5) Psalm 14:1

      > Specify #________ fools say in their
      > hearts there is no God.

      > Therefore, all who say in their
      > hearts there is no God are fools.

      Along with taking his choice, Veto needs to provide his "proof" as to the argument's VALIDITY, with recognized authorities cited in support thereof.

      Will Veto Roley repent and bring forth his works meet for his repentance?

      It doesn't look likely. It appears that Veto Roley has joined Terry and Jerry and his repentance just

      > "ain't going to happen"!

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty



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