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Re: Todd Greene vs Jerry McDonald

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  • Todd S. Greene
    ... Jerry s challenge is utterly bogus. The man is a complete liar. He won t be wasting my time any more. Furthermore, I would never be stupid enough to engage
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 7, 2008
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      --- In Maury_and_Baty, David Goldsmith ("flubber", "newbie",
      "tinroad6g", etc., etc.) wrote (post #14813):
      > Todd has been challenged in the debunkingevolutionism group
      > by Jerry McDonald to discuss the issue of the Earth's age.
      >
      > If accepted-no comments or posts (about their discussion)-other
      > than Todd's and Jerry's will be approved--any that slip by will
      > be deleted- this also includes indirect posts about what they
      > are discussing.

      Jerry's challenge is utterly bogus. The man is a complete liar. He
      won't be wasting my time any more. Furthermore, I would never be
      stupid enough to engage in discussion in a group run by the perversely
      deceitful David Goldsmith.

      - Todd Greene
    • rlbaty50
      ... I know the feeling, but I ve got a little more time on my hands and Jerry McDonald and I have a lot to work out, if he ll ever man-up to his
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 7, 2008
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        Todd, you wrote to Goldsmith (aka tinroad6g), in part:

        > Jerry's challenge is utterly bogus.

        > The man is a complete liar.

        > He won't be wasting my time any more.

        I know the feeling, but I've got a little more time on my hands and
        Jerry McDonald and I have a lot to work out, if he'll ever "man-up" to
        his responsibilities.

        Jerry has posted his propositions, but we already know from recent
        experience that Jerry has trouble negotiating in good faith the
        legitimate details necessary to pull off a formal, for the record
        debate on the scientific evidence of age.

        I also note that Jerry, though he obviously had the opportunity to do
        so on the DebunkingEvolutionism list, didn't say a word about his July
        event in Fort Collins; no advertising reference and no venue
        announcement.

        Does anyone out there have any details regarding Jerry McDonald's
        promised Fort Collins event for July 2008?

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty
      • Todd S. Greene
        I m reversing myself. I have created a new discussion group online: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YoungEarthCreationism Later on I will open up the group to
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 10, 2008
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          I'm reversing myself. I have created a new discussion group online:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YoungEarthCreationism

          Later on I will open up the group to open membership. However,
          intially, and until we are done, the group will have only two members:
          Jerry McDonald and myself. This is the for the purpose of
          accommodating Jerry McDonald's request that no one be allowed to
          participate in the discussion between him and me on the antiquity of
          the earth.

          By the way, I didn't mention this in my previous post on this, but due
          to David Goldsmith's misstatement, here I reiterate, for the umpteenth
          time, the clarification that this debate is NOT about the earth's age.
          In regard to young earth creationism the issue is NOT about the
          earth's age. In regard to young earth creationism the issue is whether
          or not the earth has been in existence significantly longer than the
          young earth creationist religious belief that the Earth was created
          about 6,000 years ago.

          Analogously, if two people were having an argument about whether or
          not a particular road they were driving on was only about 6 miles
          long, or longer, then even if the person arguing that the road is
          longer than 6 miles doesn't even have a clue how long the road is, as
          long as he can establish that the road is at least, say, 14 miles
          long, then he has disproved the contention that the road is only about
          6 miles long.

          In the same way, relevant information from geological science that
          shows that the earth has been in existence at least, say, 100,000 (one
          hundred thousand) years proves that young earth creationism is wrong,
          regardless of how old the earth is. I mention this particularly
          because young earth creationists frequently try to change the subject
          to a discussion about the subject of how geologists have determined
          the age of the earth. But that is not what the discussion is about.
          The discussion is about young earth creationism's notion that the
          earth didn't exist more than about 6,000 years ago being known to be
          wrong by what we have learned about the earth through scientific
          examination of the earth.

          Jerry McDonald is requested to join the new "YoungEarthCreationism"
          group, per his "challenge" to me (which is, by the way, actually MY
          challenge to him I made several months ago, which he previously ran
          away from because he was determined to change the subject and debate
          evolution instead of the antiquity of the earth and the antiquity of
          the universe; he also previously stated that he refused to engage in
          such debate as a written debate but would only do it as an oral
          debate, with me traveling to Missouri where he lives, which I agreed
          to do; apparently, and I emphasize *apparently*, he is now willing to
          engage in this debate in a written format).

          - Todd Greene

          cc: Jerry McDonald


          --- In Maury_and_Baty, Todd Greene wrote:
          > --- In Maury_and_Baty, David Goldsmith ("flubber", "newbie",
          > "tinroad6g", etc., etc.) wrote (post #14813):
          >> Todd has been challenged in the debunkingevolutionism group
          >> by Jerry McDonald to discuss the issue of the Earth's age.
          >>
          >> If accepted-no comments or posts (about their discussion)-other
          >> than Todd's and Jerry's will be approved--any that slip by will
          >> be deleted- this also includes indirect posts about what they
          >> are discussing.
          >
          > Jerry's challenge is utterly bogus. The man is a complete liar.
          > He won't be wasting my time any more. Furthermore, I would
          > never be stupid enough to engage in discussion in a group run
          > by the perversely deceitful David Goldsmith.
          >
          > - Todd Greene
        • Robert Baty
          ... The address for that new group is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YoungEarthCreationism I hope that Jerry takes you up on the offer and proceeds in good
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 10, 2008
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            Todd, you wrote, in part:

            > Jerry McDonald is requested to
            > join the new "YoungEarthCreationism"
            > group...

            The address for that new group is:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YoungEarthCreationism

            I hope that Jerry takes you up on the offer and proceeds in good faith to work on the discussion there regarding the evidence of age as it relates to possibly falsifying the "young-earth" position that "nothing is more than a few thousand years old".

            Todd, your proposal appears to be a reasonable, good faith compromise in order to further work towards producing the proposed discussion.

            As you have indicated, the new list will allow only for you and Jerry to proceed in producing the proposed discussion.

            As I asked in a recent post here, "why"...

            Why wouldn't Jerry McDonald accept your offer if he has a serious interest in scientifically testing, against your opposition, his fundamental claim that "nothing is more than a few thousand years old"??

            Sincerely,
            Robert Baty

            ------------Original Message---------------

            To: Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com
            From: Todd S. Greene
            Subject: Re: Todd Greene vs Jerry McDonald
            Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:03 PM

            I'm reversing myself. I have created a new discussion group online:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YoungEarthCreationism

            Later on I will open up the group to open membership. However,
            intially, and until we are done, the group will have only two members:
            Jerry McDonald and myself. This is the for the purpose of
            accommodating Jerry McDonald's request that no one be allowed to
            participate in the discussion between him and me on the antiquity of
            the earth.

            By the way, I didn't mention this in my previous post on this, but due
            to David Goldsmith's misstatement, here I reiterate, for the umpteenth
            time, the clarification that this debate is NOT about the earth's age.
            In regard to young earth creationism the issue is NOT about the
            earth's age. In regard to young earth creationism the issue is whether
            or not the earth has been in existence significantly longer than the
            young earth creationist religious belief that the Earth was created
            about 6,000 years ago.

            Analogously, if two people were having an argument about whether or
            not a particular road they were driving on was only about 6 miles
            long, or longer, then even if the person arguing that the road is
            longer than 6 miles doesn't even have a clue how long the road is, as
            long as he can establish that the road is at least, say, 14 miles
            long, then he has disproved the contention that the road is only about
            6 miles long.

            In the same way, relevant information from geological science that
            shows that the earth has been in existence at least, say, 100,000 (one
            hundred thousand) years proves that young earth creationism is wrong,
            regardless of how old the earth is. I mention this particularly
            because young earth creationists frequently try to change the subject
            to a discussion about the subject of how geologists have determined
            the age of the earth. But that is not what the discussion is about.
            The discussion is about young earth creationism's notion that the
            earth didn't exist more than about 6,000 years ago being known to be
            wrong by what we have learned about the earth through scientific
            examination of the earth.

            Jerry McDonald is requested to join the new "YoungEarthCreationism"
            group, per his "challenge" to me (which is, by the way, actually MY
            challenge to him I made several months ago, which he previously ran
            away from because he was determined to change the subject and debate
            evolution instead of the antiquity of the earth and the antiquity of
            the universe; he also previously stated that he refused to engage in
            such debate as a written debate but would only do it as an oral
            debate, with me traveling to Missouri where he lives, which I agreed
            to do; apparently, and I emphasize *apparently*, he is now willing to
            engage in this debate in a written format).

            - Todd Greene

            cc: Jerry McDonald

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