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The "man-up" requirements before Jerry McDonald!

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  • Robert Baty
    (In light of Jerry McDonald s continuing efforts, it is appropriate that he be reminded of the following:)
    Message 1 of 4 , May 2, 2008
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      (In light of Jerry McDonald's continuing efforts, it is appropriate that he be reminded of the following:)

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/14570

      (excerpts)

      "Man-up" is a term used and endorsed by Jerry McDonald and is appropriate for
      use here (Matthew 7:1,2 & James 3:1).

      I previously noted that, in light of Jerry McDonald's unjustified withdrawal
      from the debate negotiations and, by implication, the debate itself, Jerry
      McDonald would have to take specific actions to demonstrate his worthiness
      before I would further engage him in discussions.

      The following are the present, indicated conditions Jerry McDonald needs to meet
      in order to hope to engage me in further discussions:

      1. Jerry McDonald needs to admit, explain and correct, in no uncertain terms,
      his error regading the recent issue involving Hedge's rules as they relate to
      the debate negotiations.

      2. Jerry McDonald needs to demonstrate that he's taken specific action to admit,
      explain and correct, in no uncertain terms, his false reports about me and the
      "Colorado Situation" to the members of the CFTF YAHOO! discussion list and
      elsewhere his false reports may have spread. This will include, at a minimum,
      the posting of such admission, explanation and correction on the CFTF list.

      3. Jerry McDonald will admit, explain and correct his false claim, by
      implication, that the "it" regarding the "Colorado Situation" started after
      August 2007. In fact, it never started.

      4. Jerry McDonald will admit, in no uncertain terms, that the original, public,
      oral, Fort Collins debate negotiations were stopped because of his withdrawal
      therefrom and was not the result of Robert Baty having withdrawn therefrom.

      5. Jerry McDonald will admit, in no uncertain terms, that the most recent Fort
      Collins/Belle debate negotiations were stopped solely because of the actions and
      interests of Jerry McDonald in withdrawing therefrom and was not the result of
      Robert Baty having withdrawn therefrom.

      6. Jerry McDonald will remove his false and misleading introduction to our
      written debate reflected on his webpage, the link for which is following these
      comments. In lieu of that introduction, a note will be conspicuously posted on
      that page noting that the previous introduction was removed because it contained
      false and misleading information about Robert Baty.

      http://www.challenge2.org/mcdonaldbatyexchange2.html

      -----------------------------------
      -----------------------------------

      My further comments:

      It is not expected that Jerry McDonald will "man-up" to his obligations
      regarding the above.

      However, should Jerry McDonald do so, I remain ready, willing and able to engage
      Jerry McDonald in honorable discourse regarding any matters of mutual interest
      we share, including but not limited to a certain debate over previously agreed
      propositions.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • rlbaty50
      Previously posted requirement: 1. Jerry McDonald needs to admit, explain and correct, in no uncertain terms, his error regading the recent issue involving
      Message 2 of 4 , May 2, 2008
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        Previously posted requirement:

        1. Jerry McDonald needs to admit, explain and correct, in no uncertain
        terms, his error regading the recent issue involving Hedge's rules as
        they relate to the debate negotiations.

        Jerry McDonald's reply:

        > You seemed to be the one having
        > the problems with Hedges Rules of
        > Controversy, so I told you that you
        > could leave them out as far as I was
        > concerned. My words were "Fine,
        > leave Hedges rules out." That was
        > for your benefit not mine. However,
        > I will observe them. You don't have
        > to if they make you feel uneasy, but
        > I'll abide by them.

        My further comments:

        Jerry McDonald again evades his responsibility to deal with his
        problem which was most explicitly presented to him. He doesn't touch
        top, side nor bottom of it with his evasive, false and misleading
        claims above. Has Jerry McDonald even been paying attention regarding
        my concern over his error regarding the Hedge's rules controversy? It
        would appear he hasn't been paying attention or is being deliberately
        evasive!

        Jerry McDonald fails to meet this prerequiste for enaging me in any
        discussions.


        Previously posted requirement:

        2. Jerry McDonald needs to demonstrate that he's taken specific action
        to admit,
        explain and correct, in no uncertain terms, his false reports about me
        and the
        "Colorado Situation" to the members of the CFTF YAHOO! discussion list
        and
        elsewhere his false reports may have spread. This will include, at a
        minimum,
        the posting of such admission, explanation and correction on the CFTF
        list.

        Jerry McDonald's reply:

        > I have made NO misleading claims
        > about you on the CFTF list or any
        > other list regarding the "Colorado
        > Situation" or any other situation.
        > The only thing that I admitted error
        > on was the dates. I said that these
        > problems started in August of 2007
        > when you actually started propagating
        > this error in 2006. I apologized for
        > that (I, at least, gave you the benefit
        > of the doubt by saying you waited
        > until 2007).

        My further comments:

        What Jerry McDonald is now telling us is that we're back to square one
        regarding his responsibilities regarding his false and misleading
        claims about me that were made public by him on the CFTF list
        regarding the "Colorado Situation". Specifically, and conspicuously
        further misrepresented in the above from Jerry, Jerry claimed that
        I "kept my mouth shut" until August 2007 when I "started in on/went
        after" the preacher. Now he's trying to talk about something he
        calls "these problems" and what may have started in 2006.

        So, in effect, Jerry McDonald previously only "appeared" to attempt to
        correct his false and misleading reports about me. It wasn't "real".
        Jerry McDonald's problems regarding the "Colorado Situation" have now
        only grown worse, and that by his own hand!

        Jerry McDonald fails to meet this prerequiste for enaging me in any
        discussions.


        Previously posted requirement:

        3. Jerry McDonald will admit, explain and correct his false claim, by
        implication, that the "it" regarding the "Colorado Situation" started
        after August 2007. In fact, it never started.

        Jerry McDonald's reply:

        > The "it" refers to the Heresy you
        > have taught regarding the age of
        > the earth (which includes your
        > Goliath of GRAS argument). I will
        > correct nothing.

        My further comments:

        More ipse dixit, misrepresenting the meaning of "it" in the questioned
        message from Jerry McDonald. As to the above claims, as indicated,
        Jerry McDonald has nothing to support his claim, which is false; no
        evidence to present, no witnesses to come forward. As noted above,
        Jerry McDonald's problem regarding the "Colorado Situation" grows
        worse, and that by his own hand!

        Jerry McDonald fails to meet this prerequiste for enaging me in any
        discussions.


        Previously posted requirement:

        4. Jerry McDonald will admit, in no uncertain terms, that the
        original, public,
        oral, Fort Collins debate negotiations were stopped because of his
        withdrawal
        therefrom and was not the result of Robert Baty having withdrawn
        therefrom.

        Jerry McDonald's reply:

        > I (Jerry McDonald) stopped the
        > original oral debate negotiations...

        My further comments:

        Despite the effort Jerry McDonald goes to in order to try and justify
        his withdrawal with misrepresentations, I am willing to settle for his
        statement above, for the record, in order to note that he realizes, as
        everyone should, that he is the one who "stopped the original oral
        debate negotiations". We need not dispute here our differences of
        opinion as to the reasons he "backed out".

        Previously posted requirement:

        5. Jerry McDonald will admit, in no uncertain terms, that the most
        recent Fort
        Collins/Belle debate negotiations were stopped solely because of the
        actions and
        interests of Jerry McDonald in withdrawing therefrom and was not the
        result of
        Robert Baty having withdrawn therefrom.

        Jerry McDonald's reply:

        > I (Jerry McDonald) stopped
        > negotiations for this debate...

        My further comments:

        Despite the effort Jerry McDonald goes to in order to try and justify
        his withdrawal with misrepresentations, I am willing to settle for his
        statement above, for the record, in order to note that he realizes, as
        everyone should, that he is the one who "stopped negotiations for this
        debate". We need not dispute here our differences of opinion as to
        the reasons he "backed out".

        Previously posted requirement:

        6. Jerry McDonald will remove his false and misleading introduction to
        our
        written debate reflected on his webpage, the link for which is
        following these
        comments. In lieu of that introduction, a note will be conspicuously
        posted on
        that page noting that the previous introduction was removed because it
        contained false and misleading information about Robert Baty.

        http://www.challenge2.org/mcdonaldbatyexchange2.html

        Jerry McDonald's reply:

        > (There was none noted!-RLBaty)

        My further comments:

        This could be an indication, again, that Jerry McDonald simply isn't
        keeping up with his obligations to follow what is going on if he is
        going to discuss anything with me. But, considering his failure to
        qualify himself based on the foregoing items, it is anticipated that
        Jerry McDonald isn't going to qualify as to item #6.

        Jerry McDonald fails to meet this prerequiste for enaging me in any
        discussions.

        FINAL ACCOUNTING:

        Jerry McDonald gets credit for 2 out of 6, but his replies on the
        other items indicates there is no prospect of his meeting the other,
        reasonable prerequisites.

        Yet, I remain ready, willing and able to engage Jerry McDonald in a
        reasonable discussion of issues of mutual interest, including a
        formal, public, oral debate at such time as Jerry McDonald may "man-
        up" to the facts relevant to the above issues and meet his
        responsibilities.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty
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