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Re: Jerry, YOUR alternative proposition!

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  • Jerry McDonald
    Robert, I have already sent you the propositions that I will consider. Just choose one. Either we debate as to whether or not you are an atheist or we debate
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 24, 2008
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      Robert, I have already sent you the propositions that I will consider. Just choose one. Either we debate as to whether or not you are an atheist or we debate the age of the earth. The choice is yours. However, if we debate the subject of whether or not you are an atheist, I must insist that I be allowed to defend the proposition as I have written it, not as you have.
      jdm

      Robert Baty <rlbaty@...> wrote:

      Jerry,

      To help us along and, as appropriate, resolve still outstanding issues, I have prepared for your consideration another proposition that you might use should you decide to proceed in negotiating in good faith for that debate YOU were wanting.

      Here's the alternative:

      Jerry McDonald's Proposition:

      > If anyone agrees to moderate
      > for an atheist in a debate with
      > Jerry McDonald on the scientific
      > evidence of age as to the
      > universe and/or earth, then
      > that person is an atheist.

      > Affirm: Jerry McDonald
      > Deny: Robert Baty

      As you are aware, this is just the sort of proposition you have previously proposed and have yet to present your first affirmative in defense of its truth against my negative.

      So, it is proposed that you use the above proposition for YOUR proposed Fort Collins debate.

      Alternatively, if you should decline, like with the other outstanding proposition assigned to you and reflected in my latest status report, you need to explicitly, and for the record, indicate whether or not you maintain your affirmative position on the above proposition.

      Please advise and we will proceed accordingly.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty

      --My Last Message To You and Status---

      From: Robert Baty
      Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:20 PM
      To: jerry@..., w_w_c_l@...
      Cc: rlbaty@...
      Subject: Re: McDonald v. Baty Debate Status Report! (latest revision)

      Jerry, you write, further demonstrating you have not changed your committment from bad faith to good faith:

      > (Y)ou will not dictate my proposition
      > to me. I will write my own affirmative
      > and if you want to deny it then so be
      > it, if you don't tough.

      Jerry, Jerry, Jerry,

      The proposition I have set for you in the status report is not one I dictated for you, but one you have already explicitly affirmed in your postings.

      Before you try to move on and away from your own proposition, I must insist that you first either affirm or deny, for the record, the proposition in my status report which I have attributed to you.

      You further write:

      > My proposition will be something
      > along the line of

      >> "Resolved: The evidence
      >> concludes that Robert Baty
      >> is an atheist."

      That wo uld be a clear violation of Hedge's rules of honorable discourse which you have indicated you would work in good faith to abide by.

      Shame, shame, on Jerry McDonald.

      Of course, Jerry, you are welcome to continue your course and I'll be glad to negotiate further with you now that we've gotten my proposition and stipulated definitions resolved.

      I am including here the status report, unchanged.

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty

      ----------------------------------

      Debate status report: 02/23/2008; 11:20 p.m MT

      Robert Baty's Proposition:

      > If the Bible is God's word (the text)
      > and says everything began over a
      > period of six days, is interpreted by
      > some to mean it was six 24-hour days
      > occurring a few thousand years
      > ago, and there is empirical evidence
      > that some thing is actually much
      > older than a few thousand years,
      > then the in terpretation of the text
      > by some is wrong.

      > Affirm: Robert Baty
      > Deny: Jerry D. McDonald

      Stipulated Definitions:

      > God's word: a communication
      > from God, in words, that cannot
      > be wrong.

      > Says: the words themselves,
      > though they may "mean"
      > something other than what
      > they "say".

      > Few thousand years: more
      > than 10,000.

      > Empirical evidence that some
      > thing is actually much older
      > than a few thousand years:
      > some thing is actually much
      > older than a few thousand
      > years and we can so
      > determine with reference to
      > evidence independent of the
      > Word of God.

      > Interpreted: held to "mean",
      > possibly in error.

      > Accepted: Robert Baty
      > Accepted: Jerry McDonald

      Jerry McDonald's Proposition:

      > If one does NOT believe that
      > God has the supernatural creative
      > power to create the universe in
      > six literal 24 hour days and age it
      > to where it would be billions of
      > years old in those six literal 24
      > hour days, then he is an atheist.

      > Affirm: Jerry McDonald
      > Deny: Robert Baty

      Stipulated Definitions:

      > To be determined!

      Other details/logistics:

      > 1. Jerry McDonald in cooperation
      > with Marty Trujillo are to arrange
      > for an appropriate venue of their
      > choosing in Fort Collins, CO; at
      > no cost to Robert Baty.

      > 2. The debate will be an oral,
      > public debate, for the record.

      > 3. Each participant agrees to
      > endeavor in good faith to
      > strictly adhere to Hedge's 7
      > rules of honorable discourse.

      > 4. Robert Baty will ask for no
      > reimbursements.

      > 5. Other details are to be worked
      > out in good faith as between
      > Jerry McDonald and Robert Bat y.

      > Accept: Robert Baty
      > Accept: Jerry McDonald

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