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See, Jerry? More proof you're lying (Re: Evolution Sunday Oklahoma)

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  • Todd S. Greene
    There you go, Jerry McDonald, and Thomas McDonald. More proof of the fact that when you creationists pretend that the idea of the antiquity of the earth and/or
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 29, 2008
      There you go, Jerry McDonald, and Thomas McDonald. More proof of the
      fact that when you creationists pretend that the idea of the antiquity
      of the earth and/or the idea of biological evolution are just an
      atheistic conspiracy and aren't science - you're just lying. A
      standard feature of young earth creationist rhetoric.

      - Todd Greene


      --- In Maury_and_Baty, "mindoversplatter2006" wrote (post #13933):
      > Just posting this for any possible interest. MOS
      >
      > 1. OKLAHOMA CHURCHES PARTICIPATE IN EVOLUTION SUNDAY.
      >
      > 760 Congregations from all 50 States, the District of Columbia and 9
      > Countries are scheduled to participate in Evolution Weekend 2008 (8 -
      > 10 February 2008). Other congregations that may wish to participate
      > this year or in the future can find information at the Clergy Letter
      > Project web site. One of the purposes of this movement is to show
      > that religion does not refute evolution. The Oklahoma churches that
      > have signed up are listed below:
      >
      >
      > First Presbyterian Church
      > Alva, OK
      > The Rev. Judye Pistole, Pastor
      >
      > Unitarian Universalist Church of Bartlesville
      > Bartlesville, OK
      > Kathryn Reese, Minister
      >
      > First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA)
      > Broken Arrow, OK
      > The Rev. Michael J. Barron
      >
      > Cement United Methodist Church
      > Cement, OK
      > The Rev. Galeda M. Jones
      > The Rev. Montie D. Jones
      >
      > Cyril United Methodist Church
      > Cyril, OK
      > The Rev. Galeda M. Jones
      > The Rev. Montie D. Jones
      >
      > All Saints' Episcopal Church
      > Duncan, OK
      > The Rev. Joseph M Running, Jr.
      >
      > University Place Christian Church
      > Enid, OK
      > Pastor Jerry Ray Galbreath
      >
      > First United Methodist Church
      > Hugo, OK
      > The Rev. Jan Fletcher
      >
      > All Saints' Episcopal Church
      > Miami, OK
      > The Rev. Susan Connell, Rector
      >
      > United Church of Christ/Norman UCC
      > Norman, OK
      > Pastor Chris Moore
      >
      > Mayflower Congregational United Church of Christ
      > Oklahoma City, OK
      > Dr. Robin R. Meyers, Minister
      >
      > UU Congregation of Tahlequah
      > Tahlequah, OK
      > Thea Nietfeld, Minister
      >
      > Chapel Creek Church (Cooperative Baptist)
      > Tulsa, OK
      > David Wright, Pastor
      >
      > Fellowship Congregational Church
      > Tulsa, OK
      > The Rev. Dr. Paul Ashby
      >
      > Harvard Avenue Christian Church
      > Tulsa, OK
      > Kent Dorsey, Senior
    • Jerry D. McDonald
      No, Todd, no one is lying. Evolution is the atheistic doctrine. The fact that some religious people (like Robert Baty) want to hold to evolution does not
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 30, 2008
        No, Todd, no one is lying. Evolution is the atheistic doctrine. The
        fact that some religious people (like Robert Baty) want to hold to
        evolution does not mean that we are liars when we say that atheists
        say that the earth is billions of years old. It is a tenet doctrine
        of atheism; one which some religious people have adopted. These
        people are called "theistic evolutionists." That is a far cry from
        showing that Thomas is a liar. He was not addressing his article
        to "theistic evolutionists" even though I do believe he mentioned
        them, he was addressing it to atheists.

        In Christ Jesus
        Jerry D. McDonald
        --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "Todd S. Greene"
        <greeneto@...> wrote:
        >
        > There you go, Jerry McDonald, and Thomas McDonald. More proof of the
        > fact that when you creationists pretend that the idea of the
        antiquity
        > of the earth and/or the idea of biological evolution are just an
        > atheistic conspiracy and aren't science - you're just lying. A
        > standard feature of young earth creationist rhetoric.
        >
        > - Todd Greene
        >
        >
        > --- In Maury_and_Baty, "mindoversplatter2006" wrote (post #13933):
        > > Just posting this for any possible interest. MOS
        > >
        > > 1. OKLAHOMA CHURCHES PARTICIPATE IN EVOLUTION SUNDAY.
        > >
        > > 760 Congregations from all 50 States, the District of Columbia
        and 9
        > > Countries are scheduled to participate in Evolution Weekend 2008
        (8 -
        > > 10 February 2008). Other congregations that may wish to
        participate
        > > this year or in the future can find information at the Clergy
        Letter
        > > Project web site. One of the purposes of this movement is to
        show
        > > that religion does not refute evolution. The Oklahoma churches
        that
        > > have signed up are listed below:
        > >
        > >
        > > First Presbyterian Church
        > > Alva, OK
        > > The Rev. Judye Pistole, Pastor
        > >
        > > Unitarian Universalist Church of Bartlesville
        > > Bartlesville, OK
        > > Kathryn Reese, Minister
        > >
        > > First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA)
        > > Broken Arrow, OK
        > > The Rev. Michael J. Barron
        > >
        > > Cement United Methodist Church
        > > Cement, OK
        > > The Rev. Galeda M. Jones
        > > The Rev. Montie D. Jones
        > >
        > > Cyril United Methodist Church
        > > Cyril, OK
        > > The Rev. Galeda M. Jones
        > > The Rev. Montie D. Jones
        > >
        > > All Saints' Episcopal Church
        > > Duncan, OK
        > > The Rev. Joseph M Running, Jr.
        > >
        > > University Place Christian Church
        > > Enid, OK
        > > Pastor Jerry Ray Galbreath
        > >
        > > First United Methodist Church
        > > Hugo, OK
        > > The Rev. Jan Fletcher
        > >
        > > All Saints' Episcopal Church
        > > Miami, OK
        > > The Rev. Susan Connell, Rector
        > >
        > > United Church of Christ/Norman UCC
        > > Norman, OK
        > > Pastor Chris Moore
        > >
        > > Mayflower Congregational United Church of Christ
        > > Oklahoma City, OK
        > > Dr. Robin R. Meyers, Minister
        > >
        > > UU Congregation of Tahlequah
        > > Tahlequah, OK
        > > Thea Nietfeld, Minister
        > >
        > > Chapel Creek Church (Cooperative Baptist)
        > > Tulsa, OK
        > > David Wright, Pastor
        > >
        > > Fellowship Congregational Church
        > > Tulsa, OK
        > > The Rev. Dr. Paul Ashby
        > >
        > > Harvard Avenue Christian Church
        > > Tulsa, OK
        > > Kent Dorsey, Senior
        >
      • Todd S. Greene
        Atheists also say that the earth orbits the sun. But they say it because it s the truth, not because it s a tenet doctrine of atheism. The same is true of
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 30, 2008
          Atheists also say that the earth orbits the sun. But they say it
          because it's the truth, not because it's "a tenet doctrine of
          atheism." The same is true of every truth about the real world that
          we've learned about the real world through scientific investigation of
          the real world. Unlike young earth creationists, atheists - and a lot
          of other people who are not atheists - accept reality. Young earth
          creationists refuse to accept aspects of reality that are contrary to
          their religious dogma, because in this particular area their religious
          dogma is more important to them than accepting the truth.

          So, yes, Jerry, thank you for showing us - yet again - that when facts
          are pointed out to you that show that your statements are wrong, you
          are going to deliberately ignore these facts and then deliberately
          continue to preach your errors, and use all manner of deceitful
          rhetoric to cover up the facts. This is how you young earth
          creationists demonstrate your lying ways to everyone. This is The
          Young Earth Creationist Way.

          - Todd Greene


          --- In Maury_and_Baty, Jerry McDonald wrote (post #13948):
          > No, Todd, no one is lying. Evolution is the atheistic
          > doctrine. The fact that some religious people (like Robert
          > Baty) want to hold to evolution does not mean that we are
          > liars when we say that atheists say that the earth is
          > billions of years old. It is a tenet doctrine of atheism;
          > one which some religious people have adopted. These people
          > are called "theistic evolutionists." That is a far cry from
          > showing that Thomas is a liar. He was not addressing his
          > article to "theistic evolutionists" even though I do believe
          > he mentioned them, he was addressing it to atheists.
          >
          > In Christ Jesus
          > Jerry D. McDonald
          > --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "Todd S. Greene"
          > <greeneto@> wrote:
          > >
          > > There you go, Jerry McDonald, and Thomas McDonald. More proof of the
          > > fact that when you creationists pretend that the idea of the
          > antiquity
          > > of the earth and/or the idea of biological evolution are just an
          > > atheistic conspiracy and aren't science - you're just lying. A
          > > standard feature of young earth creationist rhetoric.
          > >
          > > - Todd Greene
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In Maury_and_Baty, "mindoversplatter2006" wrote (post #13933):
          > > > Just posting this for any possible interest. MOS
          > > >
          > > > 1. OKLAHOMA CHURCHES PARTICIPATE IN EVOLUTION SUNDAY.
          > > >
          > > > 760 Congregations from all 50 States, the District of Columbia
          > and 9
          > > > Countries are scheduled to participate in Evolution Weekend 2008
          > (8 -
          > > > 10 February 2008). Other congregations that may wish to
          > participate
          > > > this year or in the future can find information at the Clergy
          > Letter
          > > > Project web site. One of the purposes of this movement is to
          > show
          > > > that religion does not refute evolution. The Oklahoma churches
          > that
          > > > have signed up are listed below:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > First Presbyterian Church
          > > > Alva, OK
          > > > The Rev. Judye Pistole, Pastor
          > > >
          > > > Unitarian Universalist Church of Bartlesville
          > > > Bartlesville, OK
          > > > Kathryn Reese, Minister
          > > >
          > > > First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA)
          > > > Broken Arrow, OK
          > > > The Rev. Michael J. Barron
          > > >
          > > > Cement United Methodist Church
          > > > Cement, OK
          > > > The Rev. Galeda M. Jones
          > > > The Rev. Montie D. Jones
          > > >
          > > > Cyril United Methodist Church
          > > > Cyril, OK
          > > > The Rev. Galeda M. Jones
          > > > The Rev. Montie D. Jones
          > > >
          > > > All Saints' Episcopal Church
          > > > Duncan, OK
          > > > The Rev. Joseph M Running, Jr.
          > > >
          > > > University Place Christian Church
          > > > Enid, OK
          > > > Pastor Jerry Ray Galbreath
          > > >
          > > > First United Methodist Church
          > > > Hugo, OK
          > > > The Rev. Jan Fletcher
          > > >
          > > > All Saints' Episcopal Church
          > > > Miami, OK
          > > > The Rev. Susan Connell, Rector
          > > >
          > > > United Church of Christ/Norman UCC
          > > > Norman, OK
          > > > Pastor Chris Moore
          > > >
          > > > Mayflower Congregational United Church of Christ
          > > > Oklahoma City, OK
          > > > Dr. Robin R. Meyers, Minister
          > > >
          > > > UU Congregation of Tahlequah
          > > > Tahlequah, OK
          > > > Thea Nietfeld, Minister
          > > >
          > > > Chapel Creek Church (Cooperative Baptist)
          > > > Tulsa, OK
          > > > David Wright, Pastor
          > > >
          > > > Fellowship Congregational Church
          > > > Tulsa, OK
          > > > The Rev. Dr. Paul Ashby
          > > >
          > > > Harvard Avenue Christian Church
          > > > Tulsa, OK
          > > > Kent Dorsey, Senior
          > >
          >
        • Todd S. Greene
          Notice how Jerry with his rhetoric here is saying that people who are not atheists are atheists. So, again, another demonstration of the incoherent
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 1, 2008
            Notice how Jerry with his rhetoric here is saying that people who are
            not atheists are atheists.

            So, again, another demonstration of the incoherent irrationality of
            young earth creationist rhetoric.

            Thanks again, Jerry!

            Notice also how Jerry in his confusion again muddles together
            evolution and geology, as if geological science doesn't really exist
            but is just part of a worldwide conspiracy by evolutionists using
            stuff they make up about geology to promote evolution - the typical
            muddled rhetoric of most young earth creationists - because they're
            apparently incapable of comprehending the fact that geology is a
            distinct, independent field of science from biological evolution (and
            the same for astronomy). Our realization of the antiquity of the earth
            is the result of GEOLOGICAL science, not evolution. Our realization of
            the antiquity of the universe is the result of ASTRONOMICAL science,
            not evolution. The typical young earth creationist - and Jerry is
            certainly one of them - can't even comprehend basic distinctions about
            science.

            The Presbyterian Church isn't atheists. The Methodist Church isn't
            atheists. The Episcopal Church isn't atheists. The Christian Church
            isn't atheists. The United Church of Christ isn't atheists. And so on.
            (The particular denominations mentioned in the news report are just a
            small sample.) Christians accept the real world fact that the earth
            has been in existence far longer than just 6,000 or 10,000 years (just
            as they accept the real world fact that the earth orbits the sun; and
            for the very same reasons, because it is something we have learned
            about the real world by looking at the real world itself - in the case
            of the antiquity of the earth, learning about the physical features
            the earth has and learning about the geological processes that produce
            these kinds of features).

            People like Jerry use the lies in their rhetoric that they love to use
            precisely because they want to use prejudice-pandering rhetoric to
            corrupt rational thinking, to persuade people to NOT think about the
            facts and the logic but to make decisions based on emotions (in this
            case, emotions as motivated by fundamentalist religious dogma and
            widespread anti-atheist rhetoric used by Christians in the U.S.). But
            in this case (the subject of the antiquity of the earth), these young
            earth creationists have to fill their rhetoric with all sort of little
            lies here and there to pretend that these Christians who reject the
            religious doctrine of young earth creationism don't really exist.

            Even though they aren't athiests, they're all just atheists.

            - Todd Greene


            --- In Maury_and_Baty, Jerry McDonald wrote (post #13948):
            > No, Todd, no one is lying. Evolution is the atheistic
            > doctrine. The fact that some religious people (like Robert
            > Baty) want to hold to evolution does not mean that we are
            > liars when we say that atheists say that the earth is
            > billions of years old. It is a tenet doctrine of atheism;
            > one which some religious people have adopted. These people
            > are called "theistic evolutionists." That is a far cry from
            > showing that Thomas is a liar. He was not addressing his
            > article to "theistic evolutionists" even though I do
            > believe he mentioned them, he was addressing it to atheists.
            >
            > In Christ Jesus
            > Jerry D. McDonald
            >
            >
            > --- In Maury_and_Baty, Todd Greene wrote:
            >> There you go, Jerry McDonald, and Thomas McDonald. More
            >> proof of the fact that when you creationists pretend that
            >> the idea of the antiquity of the earth and/or the idea of
            >> biological evolution are just an atheistic conspiracy and
            >> aren't science - you're just lying. A standard feature of
            >> young earth creationist rhetoric.
            >>
            >> - Todd Greene
            >>
            >>
            >> --- In Maury_and_Baty, "mindoversplatter2006" wrote (post #13933):
            >>> Just posting this for any possible interest. MOS
            >>>
            >>> 1. OKLAHOMA CHURCHES PARTICIPATE IN EVOLUTION SUNDAY.
            >>>
            >>> 760 Congregations from all 50 States, the District of Columbia
            >>> and 9 Countries are scheduled to participate in Evolution
            >>> Weekend 2008 (8 - 10 February 2008). Other congregations that
            >>> may wish to participate this year or in the future can find
            >>> information at the Clergy Letter Project web site. One of the
            >>> purposes of this movement is to show that religion does not
            >>> refute evolution. The Oklahoma churches that have signed up
            >>> are listed below:
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> First Presbyterian Church
            >>> Alva, OK
            >>> The Rev. Judye Pistole, Pastor
            >>>
            >>> Unitarian Universalist Church of Bartlesville
            >>> Bartlesville, OK
            >>> Kathryn Reese, Minister
            >>>
            >>> First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA)
            >>> Broken Arrow, OK
            >>> The Rev. Michael J. Barron
            >>>
            >>> Cement United Methodist Church
            >>> Cement, OK
            >>> The Rev. Galeda M. Jones
            >>> The Rev. Montie D. Jones
            >>>
            >>> Cyril United Methodist Church
            >>> Cyril, OK
            >>> The Rev. Galeda M. Jones
            >>> The Rev. Montie D. Jones
            >>>
            >>> All Saints' Episcopal Church
            >>> Duncan, OK
            >>> The Rev. Joseph M Running, Jr.
            >>>
            >>> University Place Christian Church
            >>> Enid, OK
            >>> Pastor Jerry Ray Galbreath
            >>>
            >>> First United Methodist Church
            >>> Hugo, OK
            >>> The Rev. Jan Fletcher
            >>>
            >>> All Saints' Episcopal Church
            >>> Miami, OK
            >>> The Rev. Susan Connell, Rector
            >>>
            >>> United Church of Christ/Norman UCC
            >>> Norman, OK
            >>> Pastor Chris Moore
            >>>
            >>> Mayflower Congregational United Church of Christ
            >>> Oklahoma City, OK
            >>> Dr. Robin R. Meyers, Minister
            >>>
            >>> UU Congregation of Tahlequah
            >>> Tahlequah, OK
            >>> Thea Nietfeld, Minister
            >>>
            >>> Chapel Creek Church (Cooperative Baptist)
            >>> Tulsa, OK
            >>> David Wright, Pastor
            >>>
            >>> Fellowship Congregational Church
            >>> Tulsa, OK
            >>> The Rev. Dr. Paul Ashby
            >>>
            >>> Harvard Avenue Christian Church
            >>> Tulsa, OK
            >>> Kent Dorsey, Senior
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