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Translators, David P. Brown & my "Goliath of GRAS" family of arguments!

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  • rlbaty50
    David P. Brown wrote the forward for the published, written debate between Bob Berard and Robin Haley on the issue of women translators. ... Very interesting!
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 31, 2007
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      David P. Brown wrote the forward for the published, written debate
      between Bob Berard and Robin Haley on the issue of women translators.

      Here are some of what I found interesting in David P. Brown's forward:

      > Both of these brethren have DECLARED
      > their belief in the plenary verbal
      > inspiration of the Bible.

      > (T)hey have ACKNOWLEDGED the Scriptures
      > to be the objective, absolute, humanly
      > attainable, final, infallible standard
      > for determining God's will in any and
      > all matters.

      > (E)ach has AFFIRMED his belief in the
      > absolute need and proper use of the
      > rational faculties of man in arriving
      > at the truth on any subject.

      > The reader must determine whether the
      > debaters stayed TRUE to and CONSISTENT
      > with what they "DECLARED", "ACKNOWLEDGED",
      > and "AFFIRMED".

      > The debate was a written one.

      > Therefore, each man had sufficient time
      > to study and think through his position
      > and arguments as well as those of his
      > opponent.

      > True and false statements as well as
      > questions were employed by each party
      > to expose inconsistencies and
      > contradictions.

      > This is the nature of a debate; and,
      > therefore, the reason the serious
      > student is benefited by it.

      > (T)he following fundamental questions
      > should be asked by any reader concerning
      > each participants efforts in this debate,
      > or any debate of this nature, whether
      > oral or written.

      > 1. Did each disputant define the terms
      > of his proposition?

      > 2. Did each party understand the
      > implication(s) of his proposition?

      > 19. Did either party ridicule logic?

      > 20. Did the participants reveal that they
      > understood that precisely stated
      > propositions are without exception true
      > or false?

      > 21. Did the disputants know how to make
      > an argument?

      > 22. Did the parties understand that when
      > the major and minor premises of a syllogism
      > are true and the syllogism is valid that
      > the conclusion cannot be wrong?

      > 23. Did the disputants understand that an
      > illustration proves othing, that it only
      > illustrates?

      > 26. Was the issue clearly stated?

      > 29. Did either participant personally
      > attack his opponent?

      > 30. Did either brother demonstrate that he
      > would NOT change his position regardless
      > of how adequate the evidence was or how
      > logically it was presented?

      > (I)f one cannot logically analyze information
      > it is impossible for him to comprehend it;
      > and, if one has not comprehended what was
      > said or written, he has not listened.

      > What did the debater actually say?

      > (D)id each debater say what his opponent
      > said he said?

      > For obvious reasons this is more easily done
      > in a written debate; however, it is imperative
      > that time and effort be used in reading
      > and re-reading material if such is to be
      > adequately done.

      > Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

      > David P. Brown
      > Bible Resource Publications
      > Spring, TX
      > 1995


      Very interesting! One would get the distinct impression that if
      David P. Brown really believed such as the above, he would have
      showed up for the proposed formal, in writing, for the record debate
      on the existence of the yount-earth, creation-science God he and his
      boys were trying to claim they could prove existed.

      After reading the above, and re-reading it, I think I have a pretty
      good idea as to why David P. Brown never showed up and why none of
      his boys or their espoused champtions never showed up for the
      discussion; despite the overwhelmingly greater importance of the
      issue when compared to the fuss over women translators; and that by
      their own standard in judging the importance of controversial issues.

      Basically, as previously noted, the reason they will not show up for
      the discussion is because their position is really that as stated by
      Dr. Fox and summarized below:

      > We, David P. Brown and my boys,
      > have our interpretation of the
      > text regarding the real world
      > and that trumps any real world
      > evidence to the contrary.

      > Affirmed: David P. Brown
      > Affirmed: Brown's boys

      That they are with Dr. Fox on that is indicated by another one of the
      questions suggested by David P. Brown in his forward. It reads:

      > 3. Was the Bible used as the ONLY
      > standard of measurement in attempting
      > to prove and disprove matters?

      Sincerely,
      Robert Baty
    • Todd S. Greene
      In Maury_and_Baty, post #11486, Robert Baty quoted David P. Brown extensively on his comments regarding debate. As we have all noted, David Brown is thus
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 31, 2007
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        In Maury_and_Baty, post #11486, Robert Baty quoted David P. Brown
        extensively on his comments regarding debate. As we have all noted,
        David Brown is thus rather hypocritically selective in how he applies
        HIS OWN points.

        My only additional comment is about this one:

        | 3. Was the Bible used as the ONLY
        | standard of measurement in attempting
        | to prove and disprove matters?

        Just as I noted in a previous post on this point, if this was truly
        the case, to be applied "across the board" (and I note here that
        David Brown himself may not actually intend this, since he may
        recognize that there are contexts in which this would simply not be
        applicable - for example, trying to figure out why the refrigerator
        quit working - even though his behavior on public record here in
        regard to creationism indicates that he does think it applies even in
        cases where the truth can be determined by empirical examinination of
        the real world itself), then Christians should be completely ignoring
        all scientific discovery and still teaching that the Sun orbits the
        Earth, since this is exactly what is indicates by all biblical
        statements that are relevant to the subject. The fact of the matter
        is that the ONLY reason we know otherwise (that the Earth orbits the
        Sun instead of the other way around) is by scientific study of the
        real world.

        Of course, David Brown, and the other young earth creationists of his
        group, completely ignored this point, just as they completely ignored
        many, many other relevant points in the discussion. The poor young
        earth creationists simply cannot deal with reality. And THEY KNOW IT.
        Which is why they deliberately ignore such points and refuse to deal
        with them.

        - Todd Greene

        [cc: David P. Brown]
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