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Re: $500 BILLION budget breaker! :o)

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  • Todd S. Greene
    Hi, Robert. Well, here s this U.S. citizen s opinion: It does my heart glad to see that someone actually has to wherewithall to stick it to the IRS like the
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1, 2003
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      Hi, Robert.

      Well, here's this U.S. citizen's opinion: It does my heart glad to
      see that someone actually has to wherewithall to stick it to the IRS
      like the IRS sticks it to helpless citizens all of the time. I have
      no doubt that the IRS will win against these suits, but I sure hope
      it causes some IRS people a lot of time and effort and heartburn -
      just like what they do to other people. And who knows? I might be
      wrong and something good might actually come out of this.

      Regards,
      Todd Greene


      --- In Maury_and_Baty, Robert Baty wrote (post #1078):
      > I happened to see the article following my name below on the wire
      > today. I don't know all the details, but it caught my eye because
      > I am currently involved with being sued by one of our fine,
      > upstanding citizens who is looking for a billion dollar payday
      > from Uncle Sam.
      [snip]
      >
      > The similarity in the suits (mine and the one noted below), is in
      > the effort to make a racketeering charge stick, the issue as to
      > who can represent IRS employees in such actions, and the issue
      > over how "service" is accomplished in trying to prosecute such a
      > suit.
      [snip]
      >
      > ###################################
      >
      > April 30, 2003
      >
      > $500 Billion Lawsuit Against the IRS Set for Trial in February
      > 2004 PALOS HILLS, Ill., Apr. 30, 2003 (Market Wire)
      >
      > Two national membership organizations providing estate planning
      > help, announced today that the 500 billion dollar class action
      > lawsuit they filed against the Internal Revenue Service and
      > several of its agents in May of 2001 has finally been set for
      > trial in February of 2004.
      >
      > The suit charges violations of the civil rights of some 5500
      > members of the organizations, most of whom are senior Americans.
      > This latest information was released through the Executive
      > Director of the two organizations, Michael Vallone.
      >
      > The suit stems from a raid on the offices of the organizations
      > conducted by the IRS on March 31, 2000. On that date approximately
      > 30 armed IRS agents entered the Palos Hills, Illinois offices of
      > Heritage America and The Aegis Company and took thousands of
      > private records of the members of the organizations, and
      > interrogated the staff for as long as two hours without reading
      > anyone their rights. Mr. Vallone reported that, "We have faced one
      > delaying tactic after another by the government and the IRS in
      > this case.
      [snip]
      >
      > Nevertheless, just recently the court approved a joint resolution
      > for scheduling the case and set a trial date of February of 2004.
      > Vallone added, "This lawsuit, despite everything the government
      > and IRS has done to delay it, is going forward. Not only has the
      > court scheduled the trial, on April 10, 2003 the court issued an
      > order to begin discovery. We will shortly begin deposing
      > multitudes of IRS agents."
      >
      > The class action lawsuit contains 10 separate counts of violations
      > of Title 42 of the United States Code for deprivation of civil
      > rights, and an additional count under Title 18 which charges that
      > the IRS and its agents violated the federal racketeering laws.
      >
      > The complaint was filed in the Southern District of Illinois, case
      > #02-978-GPM. The attorney for Heritage America, The Aegis Company
      > and their 5500 members is Stephen McIlwain of Albuquerque, New
      > Mexico, (505) 293-4911. The lawsuit is being coordinated by United
      > Citizens for Legal Reform (www.atps.com/uclr/uclr5c.htm). The
      > Director of UCLR is Mr. Sam Sorrell (505) 797-2856.
    • rlbaty50
      ... wrote, in part: It does my heart glad to see that someone actually has to wherewithall to stick it to the IRS like the IRS sticks it to
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1, 2003
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        --- In Maury_and_Baty@yahoogroups.com, "Todd S. Greene"
        <greeneto@y...> wrote, in part:

        "It does my heart glad to see that someone actually has to
        wherewithall to stick it to the IRS like the IRS sticks it to
        helpless citizens all of the time. I have no doubt that the IRS will
        win against these suits, but I sure hope it causes some IRS people a
        lot of time and effort and heartburn - just like what they do to
        other people. And who knows? I might be wrong and something good
        might actually come out of this."

        ##############################

        My comments:

        I don't know about the $500 billion suit, but it does look like the
        government lawyers (the Justice Department is representing me) will
        get me off the hot seat. I was just a bit player in a very small
        part of the individual's continuing conspiracy complaint against just
        about everybody, everywhere.

        In my case, there is no heartburn, just a rather curious feeling
        since I haven't been through this before (lots of other IRS folk go
        through it on a regular basis). However, it is generating a lot of
        effort and paper for those involved including the Court, the
        government lawyers, and the individual prosecuting the case.

        Something good does sometimes come out of such efforts. Despite the
        lack of merit in some of these efforts, if enough interest is
        generated concerning various aspects of the system, then Congress
        just might get the message and tinker a bit to resolve various
        matters of concern. Or, where appropriate, the IRS just might
        administratively change a thing or two in response to what might be a
        problem.

        As you probably recall, I am one of those folk in the IRS that helps
        those "helpless citizens all the time". If there were just enough of
        me to go around, you would probably have a different opinion, huh?

        By the way, in addition to finally getting my pants sued off after
        all my years of public service, I also got to testify in a Tax Court
        proceeding for the first time a couple of months ago. It involved my
        involvement in a dispute involving "innocent spouse" claims. I
        thought I did pretty good for my first time testifying. Ultimately,
        everybody got together and we settled the case on a compromise basis.

        Sincerely,
        Robert Baty
      • mathewmaury
        ... There is Biblical precedent for stoning tax collectors who try to enforce confiscatory assessments. Review Solomon s tax collector, Adoram, who did not
        Message 3 of 5 , May 1, 2003
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          --- Todd wrote:
          > Well, here's this U.S. citizen's opinion: It does my heart
          > glad to see that someone actually has to wherewithall to
          > stick it to the IRS like the IRS sticks it to helpless
          > citizens all of the time.

          There is Biblical precedent for stoning tax collectors who
          try to enforce confiscatory assessments. Review Solomon's
          tax collector, Adoram, who did not survive long after a new
          administration began. All Israel 'stuck it to him' (I Kings
          12:18)
        • dmathew1
          Hello Matthew, ... David: Tax Collectors sometimes become stoned ... but that s not a capital crime, just a violation of the drug laws. Best Regards, David
          Message 4 of 5 , May 1, 2003
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            Hello Matthew,

            > There is Biblical precedent for stoning tax collectors who
            > try to enforce confiscatory assessments. Review Solomon's
            > tax collector, Adoram, who did not survive long after a new
            > administration began. All Israel 'stuck it to him' (I Kings
            > 12:18)

            David: Tax Collectors sometimes become stoned ... but that's not a
            capital crime, just a violation of the drug laws.

            Best Regards,

            David Mathews
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