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Re: NEWS -- 2005.11.29.Tuesday

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  • organistbob
    ... supply any kind of music in any Roman Catholic church. ... Jay wrote this at post #5680, and I am happy to reply to it. I am an AGO member and very proud
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 1, 2005
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      --- In MatthewsPlaceForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Martin"
      <martinjg@f...> wrote:
      >
      > Jay comment ---
      > Absolutely no American Guild of Organist (AGO) member should
      supply any kind of music in any Roman Catholic church.
      > Period.
      >
      > This "ruling" goes against the National AGO non-discrimination
      > clause. http://www.agohq.org/

      Jay wrote this at post #5680, and I am happy to reply to it.

      I am an AGO member and very proud to be one. As some of you may
      remember, I made some posts about an AGO colleague of mine who
      was fired from his organist position at a Roman Catholic Church
      for being gay. Since that time, I have boycotted all musical
      events at that particular church, and would of course refuse to
      do any substitute work there.

      Jay's point is absolutely right. I have now decided that, if
      asked, I will refuse to do any substitute work at any Roman
      Catholic Church.

      organistbob
    • John Patrick
      I do recall that event, and it was a very bad instance. I m well aware that there s enough of that sort of attitude to make feelings like this natural. Well, I
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 1, 2005
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        I do recall that event, and it was a very bad instance. I'm well
        aware that there's enough of that sort of attitude to make feelings
        like this natural.

        Well, I must remind myself NOT, under any circumstances to invite Bob
        or Jay to my w3edding, funeral, or ordination. Or any of my
        infrequent choral appearances. I guess we're all, every one of us,
        nothing but a bunch of homohobic bigots, and there is no parish or
        person anywhere worthy of your encouragement or support.

        before I get too bitter or twisted, I might say that my own feelings
        on this point are this: where they make you feel welcome, encouragfe
        them. Where they discourage you, sod 'em. For the record, I wouldn't
        advise any gay catholic to spend much time around my parish while the
        present rector is holding forth. But there are others I could
        recommend in good faith.


        Similarly, as I've written [privately, I don't take any joy in
        talking anybody out of leaving a religious allegaince, and it tends
        to be muted where its a matter of soomebody joining mine. I'm a great
        deal more concerned with what's right for that individual's soul and
        spiritual journey.

        Meanwhile, I have to try and carry on a somewhat lonely and probably
        unavailing battle to keep our local Republicans from rolling back the
        events of the past year. I suspect that I will be doing more good on
        that fron than I am here.

        --- In MatthewsPlaceForum@yahoogroups.com, "organistbob"
        <organistbob@y...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In MatthewsPlaceForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Martin"
        > <martinjg@f...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Jay comment ---
        > > Absolutely no American Guild of Organist (AGO) member should
        > supply any kind of music in any Roman Catholic church.
        > > Period.
        > >
        > > This "ruling" goes against the National AGO non-discrimination
        > > clause. http://www.agohq.org/
        >
        > Jay wrote this at post #5680, and I am happy to reply to it.
        >
        > I am an AGO member and very proud to be one. As some of you may
        > remember, I made some posts about an AGO colleague of mine who
        > was fired from his organist position at a Roman Catholic Church
        > for being gay. Since that time, I have boycotted all musical
        > events at that particular church, and would of course refuse to
        > do any substitute work there.
        >
        > Jay's point is absolutely right. I have now decided that, if
        > asked, I will refuse to do any substitute work at any Roman
        > Catholic Church.
        >
        > organistbob
        >
      • Gary
        Declining to assist a church that you feel is acting in an inappropriate manner toward gay people is an acceptable form of protest. The make the protest
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 1, 2005
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          Declining to assist a church that you feel is acting in an
          inappropriate manner toward gay people is an acceptable form of
          protest. The make the protest effective, the church needs to know why
          you are declining to assist them. I think one way to word that is to
          state that you beleive firing a gay church organist is incompatible
          with Christian principles and ethics.

          Gary
        • Gary
          John, I think you may want to reread the post again before assuming that the response is anti-Catholic. I am certain that Bob would boycott any church,
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 1, 2005
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            John, I think you may want to reread the post again before assuming
            that the response is anti-Catholic. I am certain that Bob would
            boycott any church, regardless of the denomination, that fired an
            organist for being gay. There are church denominations that I do not
            like to serve and that does not mean I hate the denomination or am a
            bigot.

            The position not to serve in a denomination that does not affirm gay
            people in all areas of service, including ordained ministry - is not
            anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant or anti-anything else.

            Gary
          • organistbob
            Thanks for your response, Gary. You are quite correct! In many ways, the whole issue is probably a moot point. The fact is that no Roman Catholic church has
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 2, 2005
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              Thanks for your response, Gary. You are quite correct!

              In many ways, the whole issue is probably a moot point. The fact is
              that no Roman Catholic church has asked me to play for any weddings
              or funerals, and since I don't advertise myself as being available to
              do that, they probably won't. And the same principle would apply
              with Southern Baptist and Assembly of God. Those denominations
              also hate gay people, but there's just about no possibility that any
              of those kinds of churches would ever call me to play for a wedding
              or funeral either.

              organistbob

              --- In MatthewsPlaceForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <garysdeskcom@h...> wrote:
              >
              > John, I think you may want to reread the post again before assuming
              > that the response is anti-Catholic. I am certain that Bob would
              > boycott any church, regardless of the denomination, that fired an
              > organist for being gay. There are church denominations that I do not
              > like to serve and that does not mean I hate the denomination or am a
              > bigot.
              >
              > The position not to serve in a denomination that does not affirm gay
              > people in all areas of service, including ordained ministry - is not
              > anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant or anti-anything else.
              >
              > Gary
              >
            • John Patrick
              I was having one of my depressed days, and was in a worse mood than usual. So apologies to Bob, there. Still, I take it that I will hvae to look elsewhere for
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 2, 2005
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                I was having one of my depressed days, and was in a worse mood than
                usual. So apologies to Bob, there.

                Still, I take it that I will hvae to look elsewhere for an organist
                than Bob or Jay. I might even *gasp, gag, retch* have to take Gary!

                --- In MatthewsPlaceForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <garysdeskcom@h...>
                wrote:
                >
                > John, I think you may want to reread the post again before assuming
                > that the response is anti-Catholic. I am certain that Bob would
                > boycott any church, regardless of the denomination, that fired an
                > organist for being gay. There are church denominations that I do
                not
                > like to serve and that does not mean I hate the denomination or am a
                > bigot.
                >
                > The position not to serve in a denomination that does not affirm gay
                > people in all areas of service, including ordained ministry - is not
                > anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant or anti-anything else.
                >
                > Gary
                >
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