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Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer to myself;

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  • Iain Galloway
    OK - I read this, and it made me wonder...what is the proper rigging or knots to attach the clew to the outhaul eye at the end of the boom? I always felt my
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 27, 2006
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      OK - I read this, and it made me wonder...what is the proper rigging or knots to attach the clew to the outhaul eye at the end of the boom? I always felt my sail was a bit "jerry rigged" in that respect...

      On 12/27/06, Bill Scanlon <Catalina30Ruby@...> wrote:

       
       
       
      Ask the Expert... Mark Ploch
      Q. Does a loose footed main perform better? Beside being easier to tie up a reef, is there an advantage? If I change to a loose footed main, how do I attach the outhaul to the boom?
      A. Yes, there are some performance advantages to a loose footed main. You will notice that the majority of today's race boats incorporate a loose footed main. You can make minute adjustments to your outhaul because the sail is not constrained by the foot attached to the boom. If you have an outhaul car, you simply attach the sail at the tack and clew as before. If not, your sail should have a slug or slide at the clew, or as we do on most race boats, a web strap that goes around the boom and through the clew ring, to take the clew load. We see more and more cruisers opting for a loose footed main as well.



      Bill Scanlon
      USCG Master 50 GT Inland Waters
      Towing & Sailing Endorsements
      Lic. # 1092926
      1984 Catalina 30
      "Ruby"
      Std. Rig  Hull#  3688
      Winthrop (Mass.) Yacht Club
       
      Navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse

      __________________________________________________
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    • Dick Usen
      If line, use a buntline hitch. If hardware, use a shackle pin. ... From: Iain Galloway To: MassBaySailors@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 27, 2006
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        If line, use a buntline hitch. If hardware, use a shackle pin.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:08 PM
        Subject: Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer to myself;

        OK - I read this, and it made me wonder...what is the proper rigging or knots to attach the clew to the outhaul eye at the end of the boom? I always felt my sail was a bit "jerry rigged" in that respect...

        On 12/27/06, Bill Scanlon <Catalina30Ruby@ yahoo.com> wrote:

         
         
         
        Ask the Expert... Mark Ploch
        Q. Does a loose footed main perform better? Beside being easier to tie up a reef, is there an advantage? If I change to a loose footed main, how do I attach the outhaul to the boom?
        A. Yes, there are some performance advantages to a loose footed main. You will notice that the majority of today's race boats incorporate a loose footed main. You can make minute adjustments to your outhaul because the sail is not constrained by the foot attached to the boom. If you have an outhaul car, you simply attach the sail at the tack and clew as before. If not, your sail should have a slug or slide at the clew, or as we do on most race boats, a web strap that goes around the boom and through the clew ring, to take the clew load. We see more and more cruisers opting for a loose footed main as well.



        Bill Scanlon
        USCG Master 50 GT Inland Waters
        Towing & Sailing Endorsements
        Lic. # 1092926
        1984 Catalina 30
        "Ruby"
        Std. Rig  Hull#  3688
        Winthrop (Mass.) Yacht Club
         
        Navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse

        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail. yahoo.com


      • Ahmet
        I have both. My Bristol has a loose footed main, just because I opted for a cheap imitation of the stackpack, where the cover is in the grooves. I can make the
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 27, 2006
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          I have both.
          My Bristol has a loose footed main, just because I opted for a cheap imitation of the stackpack, where the cover is in the grooves.
          I can make the main as tight as I want to, with the outhaul, and do not notice any loss.
          Now, mind you, this is a 26 footer.
          I have seen larger boats with in-mast furlers and loose footed main... and I am not convinced that you can actually tighten the outhoul enough to have a flat foot if you wanted to... but then again ... I may be wrong.
          Ahmet
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Dick Usen
          Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 4:39 PM
          Subject: Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer to myself;

          If line, use a buntline hitch. If hardware, use a shackle pin.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:08 PM
          Subject: Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer to myself;

          OK - I read this, and it made me wonder...what is the proper rigging or knots to attach the clew to the outhaul eye at the end of the boom? I always felt my sail was a bit "jerry rigged" in that respect...

          On 12/27/06, Bill Scanlon <Catalina30Ruby@ yahoo.com> wrote:

           
           
           
          Ask the Expert... Mark Ploch
          Q. Does a loose footed main perform better? Beside being easier to tie up a reef, is there an advantage? If I change to a loose footed main, how do I attach the outhaul to the boom?
          A. Yes, there are some performance advantages to a loose footed main. You will notice that the majority of today's race boats incorporate a loose footed main. You can make minute adjustments to your outhaul because the sail is not constrained by the foot attached to the boom. If you have an outhaul car, you simply attach the sail at the tack and clew as before. If not, your sail should have a slug or slide at the clew, or as we do on most race boats, a web strap that goes around the boom and through the clew ring, to take the clew load. We see more and more cruisers opting for a loose footed main as well.



          Bill Scanlon
          USCG Master 50 GT Inland Waters
          Towing & Sailing Endorsements
          Lic. # 1092926
          1984 Catalina 30
          "Ruby"
          Std. Rig  Hull#  3688
          Winthrop (Mass.) Yacht Club
           
          Navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse

          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail. yahoo.com


        • Jim Claffey
          I just ordered a new main from Doyle (not a stackpack) for my Tartan 28. I too was skeptical about a loose footed main , but they pushed it and in fact offered
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 27, 2006
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            I just ordered a new main from Doyle (not a stackpack) for my Tartan
            28. I too was skeptical about a loose footed main , but they pushed
            it and in fact offered to sew a bolt rope on if I was not satisified
            with the performance. We'll see this spring but anything will beat
            the rags I was flying.

            JIm,





            --- In MassBaySailors@yahoogroups.com, "Ahmet" <SailNomad@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have both.
            > My Bristol has a loose footed main, just because I opted for a
            cheap imitation of the stackpack, where the cover is in the grooves.
            > I can make the main as tight as I want to, with the outhaul, and do
            not notice any loss.
            > Now, mind you, this is a 26 footer.
            > I have seen larger boats with in-mast furlers and loose footed
            main... and I am not convinced that you can actually tighten the
            outhoul enough to have a flat foot if you wanted to... but then
            again ... I may be wrong.
            > Ahmet
            > www.sailnomad.com
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Dick Usen
            > To: MassBaySailors@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 4:39 PM
            > Subject: Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer to
            myself;
            >
            >
            > If line, use a buntline hitch. If hardware, use a shackle pin.
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Iain Galloway
            > To: MassBaySailors@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:08 PM
            > Subject: Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer
            to myself;
            >
            >
            > OK - I read this, and it made me wonder...what is the proper
            rigging or knots to attach the clew to the outhaul eye at the end of
            the boom? I always felt my sail was a bit "jerry rigged" in that
            respect...
            >
            >
            >
            > On 12/27/06, Bill Scanlon <Catalina30Ruby@...> wrote:
            >
            > http://www.sailboatowners.com/mail_content/MondayMail.htm?
            fno=20
            >
            >
            >
            > Ask the Expert... Mark Ploch
            > Q. Does a loose footed main perform better? Beside
            being easier to tie up a reef, is there an advantage? If I change to
            a loose footed main, how do I attach the outhaul to the boom?
            > A. Yes, there are some performance advantages to a
            loose footed main. You will notice that the majority of today's race
            boats incorporate a loose footed main. You can make minute
            adjustments to your outhaul because the sail is not constrained by
            the foot attached to the boom. If you have an outhaul car, you simply
            attach the sail at the tack and clew as before. If not, your sail
            should have a slug or slide at the clew, or as we do on most race
            boats, a web strap that goes around the boom and through the clew
            ring, to take the clew load. We see more and more cruisers opting for
            a loose footed main as well.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Bill Scanlon
            > USCG Master 50 GT Inland Waters
            > Towing & Sailing Endorsements
            > Lic. # 1092926
            >
            > 1984 Catalina 30
            > "Ruby"
            > Std. Rig Hull# 3688
            > Winthrop (Mass.) Yacht Club
            >
            > Navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
            around
            > http://mail. yahoo.com
            >
          • Bill Scanlon
            According to the, supposed expert (with all do respect), person answering the question there should be IMPROVED performance with a loose fitted main as a
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 27, 2006
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              According to the, supposed expert (with all do respect), person answering the question there should be IMPROVED performance with a loose fitted main as a result of the ability to improve your sail shape. I (not having a mechanical engineering background) assumed that sail resistance at the boom (transfer of power) more evenly distributed along the foot of the sail to the boom would increase the transfer of that power. I guess there is still some loss of power by reducing the transfer area but it seems the improvement (increased power gained) of sail shape over compensates for the loss.
               
              There must obviously be a Calculus equation that charts these x/y coordinates to a bell curve showing the benefit of the loose fitted sail over the attached foot.
               
              A homework assignment for any of you math majors out there! ;-)
              Otherwise we’ll just have to assume that the World Class Racers, Boat Designers/Builders and Sail Designers/Makers have already done their homework and we should believe & trust them, as opposed to us thinking they might be selling us less product at the same cost.
               
               
               
              buntline hitch
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buntline_hitch
              The Buntline hitch is a
              knot used for attaching a rope to an object. A very secure and easily tied knot, it will jam when subjected to extreme loads. Given this propensity for jamming it is often made in a slipped form which is much easier to release by hand, albeit bulkier and less shipshape. The Buntline hitch is formed by making a clove hitch around the standing part such that the second half-hitch is made on the side towards the object.
               
               
              Buntline hitch
              /wiki/Image:Buntline-hitches-header.jpg/wiki/Image:Buntline-hitches-header.jpgLeft: Buntline hitch
              Right: Slipped buntline hitch Category
              hitch Related Clove hitch, Two half-hitches, Lobster buoy hitch Releasing Jamming ABoK #55, #1229, #1711, #1838, #1847, #1918, #2408
               
               
              Our sail shape can only be as good as our sail gear and then our choosen adjustments.  I have found that the outhaul is one of the least used and often times under-performing runing-rigging points on cruising sailboats.  Though, easily corrected.
               
               


              Bill Scanlon
              USCG Master 50 GT Inland Waters
              Towing & Sailing Endorsements
              Lic. # 1092926
              1984 Catalina 30
              "Ruby"
              Std. Rig  Hull#  3688
              Winthrop (Mass.) Yacht Club
               
              Navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

            • Dick Usen
              IMHO, the point is , you don t want a flat foot, but sail shape all the way to the boom. I have a shelf foot, where there s an extra baggy panel attached to
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 27, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                IMHO, the point is , you don't want a flat foot, but sail shape all the way to the boom. I have a shelf foot, where there's an extra baggy panel attached to the sail and sliding into the boom groove. The sail is effectively two-dimensional w/ an end plate.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Ahmet
                Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 5:40 PM
                Subject: Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer to myself;

                I have both.
                My Bristol has a loose footed main, just because I opted for a cheap imitation of the stackpack, where the cover is in the grooves.
                I can make the main as tight as I want to, with the outhaul, and do not notice any loss.
                Now, mind you, this is a 26 footer.
                I have seen larger boats with in-mast furlers and loose footed main... and I am not convinced that you can actually tighten the outhoul enough to have a flat foot if you wanted to... but then again ... I may be wrong.
                Ahmet
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Dick Usen
                Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 4:39 PM
                Subject: Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer to myself;

                If line, use a buntline hitch. If hardware, use a shackle pin.
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:08 PM
                Subject: Re: [MassBaySailors] A Question I wondered the answer to myself;

                OK - I read this, and it made me wonder...what is the proper rigging or knots to attach the clew to the outhaul eye at the end of the boom? I always felt my sail was a bit "jerry rigged" in that respect...

                On 12/27/06, Bill Scanlon <Catalina30Ruby@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                 
                 
                 
                Ask the Expert... Mark Ploch
                Q. Does a loose footed main perform better? Beside being easier to tie up a reef, is there an advantage? If I change to a loose footed main, how do I attach the outhaul to the boom?
                A. Yes, there are some performance advantages to a loose footed main. You will notice that the majority of today's race boats incorporate a loose footed main. You can make minute adjustments to your outhaul because the sail is not constrained by the foot attached to the boom. If you have an outhaul car, you simply attach the sail at the tack and clew as before. If not, your sail should have a slug or slide at the clew, or as we do on most race boats, a web strap that goes around the boom and through the clew ring, to take the clew load. We see more and more cruisers opting for a loose footed main as well.



                Bill Scanlon
                USCG Master 50 GT Inland Waters
                Towing & Sailing Endorsements
                Lic. # 1092926
                1984 Catalina 30
                "Ruby"
                Std. Rig  Hull#  3688
                Winthrop (Mass.) Yacht Club
                 
                Navigare necesse est, vivere non est necesse

                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail. yahoo.com


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