Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Vet issue

Expand Messages
  • jungle_cat80
    I need some tips to help me out for next time we have a vet out. I appologize that this is so long. The last three years we have had problems when the vet
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      I need some tips to help me out for next time we have a vet out. I appologize that this is so long.

      The last three years we have had problems when the vet comes out. One was fine, but the other two freaked out. Of these two that freaked, Apache, used to be good, just a bit nervous his early years with shots due to all the ones he had a baby when he had pnemonia as an orphan foal. However, we got him over this and so he was just fine for the vet. Unfortunately over the last 3 years he has become very hard to handle when the vet is out and needs to be twitched. He literally throws himself back against the lead as soon as my vet walks towards him and becomes a danger to himself and others with the way he fights to get away. Its the same vet he has had for all of his life. I tried to tell my vet it only happens when he is around but he told me that is bull and gave me a huge lecture.

      He tells me its socializing issues and I need him out more - yet we've had this horse trail riding all over the place and even had him at the Kentucky horse park this past fall with strangers walking up and petting him and carriages all around during the national drive and he handled it all just fine. The only time we see this reaction is when the vet is out.

      The other one that had an issue is Rascal. He came to me a couple years back as an underweight/unhandled/practically wild yearling and he has come a long way. He is now 3. My vet has had problems with him the very first time he was out - only 2 weeks after we brought him home, and to get control of the freaking out young colt he pinned him against the wall (he was only 12.2 at the time) and ear twitched him. Now my typically calm horse that follows me everywhere and is sweet as can be actually struck out at my vet and vigerously tosses his head anytime my vet gets near him. He even tried to jump the hitching post to escape. Again, I don't see this reaction around anyone else.

      My vet says its not him - they are just not trained and socialized. Now true, Rascal needs more but he is just geting put under saddle so that will come as we get him out more.

      My vet wants me to tie up a front leg on each of them with a belt and have them waiting like that for the next time he is out (which sounds dangerous to me and just crazy considering he rarely is out on time so they would be standing like that for who knows how long). I will not do this and I think it will be the end of our relationship. I already have a couple recommendations for other vets in the area that I have been told are more gentle and tolerant of horses and not so conforontational with them. But in the meantime, what else can I do to get them accepting of a vet? I've had a couple people out here since and they were both accepting and curious of new people so I don't think its fear of people they don't know.

      They both have had the bonder done repeatedly and Rascal rarely need it because as soon as he seems me he comes up to my side and follows me everywhere. Very much a "Whatever I can do for you ma'am" type of horse wanting to please. He just completely loses it when he sees my vet.

      Thanks for any tips,

      Jessie
    • Rossin, Keria
      Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
      • 0 Attachment

        Well, sounds pretty person specific.  It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react.  Do you need Coggins done or anything.  Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.

         

        My other thought is this on Apache… what kind of shots are you doing?  If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards. 

         

        I am not a big believer in shots if I don’t need them.  I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies.  You might look into that.  And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood  - something benign to see what reaction they are having.

         

        If you have desensitized them with strangers I’m not sure what else you can do.  And if your friends are recommending ‘gentler more tolerant vets’ then there is something they are saying there.  And I would NOT tie up anyone’s leg.  That is not going to make the problem go away.  It will just make it worse.  I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?

         

        And this is all just my opinion.

         

        Regards

        Keria

         

        From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jungle_cat80
        Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:48 AM
        To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Vet issue

         

         

        I need some tips to help me out for next time we have a vet out. I appologize that this is so long.

        The last three years we have had problems when the vet comes out. One was fine, but the other two freaked out. Of these two that freaked, Apache, used to be good, just a bit nervous his early years with shots due to all the ones he had a baby when he had pnemonia as an orphan foal. However, we got him over this and so he was just fine for the vet. Unfortunately over the last 3 years he has become very hard to handle when the vet is out and needs to be twitched. He literally throws himself back against the lead as soon as my vet walks towards him and becomes a danger to himself and others with the way he fights to get away. Its the same vet he has had for all of his life. I tried to tell my vet it only happens when he is around but he told me that is bull and gave me a huge lecture.

        He tells me its socializing issues and I need him out more - yet we've had this horse trail riding all over the place and even had him at the Kentucky horse park this past fall with strangers walking up and petting him and carriages all around during the national drive and he handled it all just fine. The only time we see this reaction is when the vet is out.

        The other one that had an issue is Rascal. He came to me a couple years back as an underweight/unhandled/practically wild yearling and he has come a long way. He is now 3. My vet has had problems with him the very first time he was out - only 2 weeks after we brought him home, and to get control of the freaking out young colt he pinned him against the wall (he was only 12.2 at the time) and ear twitched him. Now my typically calm horse that follows me everywhere and is sweet as can be actually struck out at my vet and vigerously tosses his head anytime my vet gets near him. He even tried to jump the hitching post to escape. Again, I don't see this reaction around anyone else.

        My vet says its not him - they are just not trained and socialized. Now true, Rascal needs more but he is just geting put under saddle so that will come as we get him out more.

        My vet wants me to tie up a front leg on each of them with a belt and have them waiting like that for the next time he is out (which sounds dangerous to me and just crazy considering he rarely is out on time so they would be standing like that for who knows how long). I will not do this and I think it will be the end of our relationship. I already have a couple recommendations for other vets in the area that I have been told are more gentle and tolerant of horses and not so conforontational with them. But in the meantime, what else can I do to get them accepting of a vet? I've had a couple people out here since and they were both accepting and curious of new people so I don't think its fear of people they don't know.

        They both have had the bonder done repeatedly and Rascal rarely need it because as soon as he seems me he comes up to my side and follows me everywhere. Very much a "Whatever I can do for you ma'am" type of horse wanting to please. He just completely loses it when he sees my vet.

        Thanks for any tips,

        Jessie

        **********************************************************
        Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues
      • cherie
        First thing would be to find another Vet....no bedside manner...
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          First thing would be to find another Vet....no bedside manner...





          >I need some tips to help me out for next time we have a vet out. I
          >appologize that this is so long.
          >
          > Unfortunately over the last 3 years he has become very hard to handle
          > when the vet is out and needs to be twitched.
          >
          >The other one that had an issue is Rascal. He came to me a couple years
          >back as an underweight/unhandled/practically wild yearling and he has come
          >a long way. He is now 3. My vet has had problems with him the very first
          >time he was out - only 2 weeks after we brought him home, and to get
          >control of the freaking out young colt he pinned him against the wall (he
          >was only 12.2 at the time) and ear twitched him.
        • jungle_cat80
          We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

            Thanks for feedback,

            Jessie

            --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
            >
            > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
            >
            > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
            >
            > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
            >
            > And this is all just my opinion.
            >
            > Regards
            > Keria
          • castleeden2@aol.com
            Julie Howard, CMT Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage 9242A Mosby Street Manassas, Va 20110 703-530-0100 ... From: jungle_cat80 To:
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
            • 0 Attachment


               Julie Howard, CMT
              Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
              9242A Mosby Street
              Manassas, Va 20110
              703-530-0100


              -----Original Message-----
              From: jungle_cat80 <psych_1@...>
              To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18 am
              Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

               

              We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

              Thanks for feedback,

              Jessie

              --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
              >
              > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
              >
              > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
              >
              > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
              >
              > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
              >
              > And this is all just my opinion.
              >
              > Regards
              > Keria

            • castleeden2@aol.com
              this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that s too much at once! Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots? If I gave a lot of vaccines to my
              Message 6 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once!  Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots?  If I gave a lot of vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...
                Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet --  maybe you could get a female vet?
                julie

                 Julie Howard, CMT
                Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                9242A Mosby Street
                Manassas, Va 20110
                703-530-0100


                -----Original Message-----
                From: jungle_cat80 <psych_1@...>
                To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18 am
                Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                 

                We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

                Thanks for feedback,

                Jessie

                --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                >
                > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                >
                > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                >
                > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                >
                > And this is all just my opinion.
                >
                > Regards
                > Keria

              • Rossin, Keria
                I think so but then that is just my opinion. Rabies I do separately - like a month later. From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                • 0 Attachment

                  I think so  but then that is just my opinion.  Rabies I do separately – like a month later.

                   

                  From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jungle_cat80
                  Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:18 AM
                  To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                   

                   


                  We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

                  Thanks for feedback,

                  Jessie

                  --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                  >
                  > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                  >
                  > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                  >
                  > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                  >
                  > And this is all just my opinion.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  > Keria

                  **********************************************************
                  Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues
                • jungle_cat80
                  I wish, but we have no female large-animal vets in the area. Jessie
                  Message 8 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I wish, but we have no female large-animal vets in the area.

                    Jessie

                    --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, castleeden2@... wrote:
                    >
                    > this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once! Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots? If I gave a lot of vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...
                    > Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet -- maybe you could get a female vet?
                    > julie
                    >
                    >
                    > Julie Howard, CMT
                    > Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                    > 9242A Mosby Street
                    > Manassas, Va 20110
                    > 703-530-0100
                    >
                  • jungle_cat80
                    Vets have to do Rabies in our area, but I could order and do WNV-EWT seperate. I just hate giving shots. Jessie
                    Message 9 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Vets have to do Rabies in our area, but I could order and do WNV-EWT seperate. I just hate giving shots.

                      Jessie

                      --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I think so but then that is just my opinion. Rabies I do separately - like a month later.
                      >
                      > From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jungle_cat80
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:18 AM
                      > To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?
                      >
                      > Thanks for feedback,
                      >
                      > Jessie
                      >
                      > --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com<mailto:MarvWalkerHorses%40yahoogroups.com>, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                      > >
                      > > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                      > >
                      > > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                      > >
                      > > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                      > >
                      > > And this is all just my opinion.
                      > >
                      > > Regards
                      > > Keria
                      >
                      > **********************************************************
                      > Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues
                      >
                    • Nancy or MaryAnne
                      BTW, just because they are female doesn t mean they are better with animals or care more then their male counterparts. ... From: jungle_cat80
                      Message 10 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        BTW, just because they are female doesn't mean they are better with animals
                        or care more then their male counterparts.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "jungle_cat80" <psych_1@...>
                        To: <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:11 AM
                        Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue


                        >I wish, but we have no female large-animal vets in the area.
                        >
                        > Jessie
                        >
                        > --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, castleeden2@... wrote:
                        >>
                        >> this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once! Cant
                        >> you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots? If I gave a lot of
                        >> vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...
                        >> Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet -- maybe you could get
                        >> a female vet?
                        >> julie
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Julie Howard, CMT
                        >> Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                        >> 9242A Mosby Street
                        >> Manassas, Va 20110
                        >> 703-530-0100
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • jungle_cat80
                        You are correct.
                        Message 11 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          You are correct.


                          --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy or MaryAnne" <NMALEC@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > BTW, just because they are female doesn't mean they are better with animals
                          > or care more then their male counterparts.
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "jungle_cat80" <psych_1@...>
                          > To: <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:11 AM
                          > Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                          >
                          >
                          > >I wish, but we have no female large-animal vets in the area.
                          > >
                          > > Jessie
                          > >
                          > > --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, castleeden2@ wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once! Cant
                          > >> you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots? If I gave a lot of
                          > >> vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...
                          > >> Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet -- maybe you could get
                          > >> a female vet?
                          > >> julie
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> Julie Howard, CMT
                          > >> Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                          > >> 9242A Mosby Street
                          > >> Manassas, Va 20110
                          > >> 703-530-0100
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • EVE HADLOCK
                          I think that vet has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt. ... From:
                          Message 12 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I think that vet  has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt. 
                             
                             
                             
                             
                            -------Original Message-------
                             
                            Date: 4/5/2012 7:29:58 AM
                            Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                             
                             

                            this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once!  Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots?  If I gave a lot of vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...

                            Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet --  maybe you could get a female vet?
                            julie

                             Julie Howard, CMT
                            Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                            9242A Mosby Street
                            Manassas, Va 20110
                            703-530-0100


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: jungle_cat80 <psych_1@...>
                            To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18 am
                            Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                             

                            We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

                            Thanks for feedback,

                            Jessie

                            --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                            >
                            > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                            >
                            > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                            >
                            > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                            >
                            > And this is all just my opinion.
                            >
                            > Regards
                            > Keria

                             
                          • Jeanniedee@aol.com
                            Also, you can t blame the vet for refusing to put himself in danger. Whatever the issue is (him or the horse) he can refuse to treat the horse if it isn t safe
                            Message 13 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Also, you can't blame the vet for refusing to put himself in danger. Whatever the issue is (him or the horse) he can refuse to treat the horse if it isn't safe to do so.

                              ~Jean~

                              Everything that lives,
                              Lives not alone, nor for itself. 
                              -- William Blake, from Book of Thel


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: EVE HADLOCK <sunarab@...>
                              To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:44 am
                              Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue



                              I think that vet  has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt. 
                               
                               
                               
                               
                              -------Original Message-------
                               
                              Date: 4/5/2012 7:29:58 AM
                              Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                               
                               
                              this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once!  Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots?  If I gave a lot of vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...
                              Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet --  maybe you could get a female vet?
                              julie

                               Julie Howard, CMT
                              Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                              9242A Mosby Street
                              Manassas, Va 20110
                              703-530-0100


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: jungle_cat80 <psych_1@...>
                              To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18 am
                              Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                               

                              We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

                              Thanks for feedback,

                              Jessie

                              --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                              >
                              > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                              >
                              > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                              >
                              > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                              >
                              > And this is all just my opinion.
                              >
                              > Regards
                              > Keria

                               


                            • EVE HADLOCK
                              That is so true. Owners need to have their horses desensitized to everyday experiences as well as routine vet calls. You cant prepare for the abnormal and
                              Message 14 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                That is so true.  Owners need to have their horses desensitized to everyday experiences as well as routine vet calls.  You cant prepare for the abnormal and you don't have to use a vet or farrier who use extreme measures to treat or work on your horse.  Get a horses familiar with a vet so they know them.  We do all our own vetting.  Hubby has the educational background to be a vet tech so that helps us a lot  as well as being a farrier.  We are a do all family.  We start a training horse today after 10 yrs of being retired.  Hurray.  This should be interesting starting a 4 yr old stallion who has had limited handling but well imprinted.  Gotta go.. 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 4/5/2012 9:10:16 AM
                                Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                                 
                                 

                                Also, you can't blame the vet for refusing to put himself in danger. Whatever the issue is (him or the horse) he can refuse to treat the horse if it isn't safe to do so.

                                ~Jean~

                                Everything that lives,
                                Lives not alone, nor for itself. 
                                -- William Blake, from Book of Thel


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: EVE HADLOCK <sunarab@...>
                                To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:44 am
                                Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue



                                I think that vet  has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt. 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 4/5/2012 7:29:58 AM
                                Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                                 
                                 
                                this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once!  Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots?  If I gave a lot of vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...
                                Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet --  maybe you could get a female vet?
                                julie

                                 Julie Howard, CMT
                                Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                                9242A Mosby Street
                                Manassas, Va 20110
                                703-530-0100


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: jungle_cat80 <psych_1@...>
                                To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18 am
                                Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                 

                                We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

                                Thanks for feedback,

                                Jessie

                                --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                                >
                                > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                                >
                                > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                                >
                                > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                                >
                                > And this is all just my opinion.
                                >
                                > Regards
                                > Keria

                                 


                                 
                              • Lea Zukas
                                Haven t read anyone else s responses yet, but I m sure they re all saying the same thing: it s not your horses, it s the vet!! From your description, it
                                Message 15 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Haven't read anyone else's responses yet, but I'm sure they're all saying the same thing:  it's not your horses, it's the vet!!

                                  From your description, it sounds like the horses are socialized just fine. But your vet sounds very rough and VERY close minded. You are with those horses every day -- who knows them better than you??  The fact that he won't listen to you tells me all I need to know. (And the fact that they only react to him says quite a lot, too.)

                                  You already have the recommendations -- I think you should find yourself another vet!



                                  Lea

                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                  On Apr 5, 2012, at 7:47 AM, "jungle_cat80" <psych_1@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  I need some tips to help me out for next time we have a vet out. I appologize that this is so long.

                                  The last three years we have had problems when the vet comes out. One was fine, but the other two freaked out. Of these two that freaked, Apache, used to be good, just a bit nervous his early years with shots due to all the ones he had a baby when he had pnemonia as an orphan foal. However, we got him over this and so he was just fine for the vet. Unfortunately over the last 3 years he has become very hard to handle when the vet is out and needs to be twitched. He literally throws himself back against the lead as soon as my vet walks towards him and becomes a danger to himself and others with the way he fights to get away. Its the same vet he has had for all of his life. I tried to tell my vet it only happens when he is around but he told me that is bull and gave me a huge lecture.

                                  He tells me its socializing issues and I need him out more - yet we've had this horse trail riding all over the place and even had him at the Kentucky horse park this past fall with strangers walking up and petting him and carriages all around during the national drive and he handled it all just fine. The only time we see this reaction is when the vet is out.

                                  The other one that had an issue is Rascal. He came to me a couple years back as an underweight/unhandled/practically wild yearling and he has come a long way. He is now 3. My vet has had problems with him the very first time he was out - only 2 weeks after we brought him home, and to get control of the freaking out young colt he pinned him against the wall (he was only 12.2 at the time) and ear twitched him. Now my typically calm horse that follows me everywhere and is sweet as can be actually struck out at my vet and vigerously tosses his head anytime my vet gets near him. He even tried to jump the hitching post to escape. Again, I don't see this reaction around anyone else.

                                  My vet says its not him - they are just not trained and socialized. Now true, Rascal needs more but he is just geting put under saddle so that will come as we get him out more.

                                  My vet wants me to tie up a front leg on each of them with a belt and have them waiting like that for the next time he is out (which sounds dangerous to me and just crazy considering he rarely is out on time so they would be standing like that for who knows how long). I will not do this and I think it will be the end of our relationship. I already have a couple recommendations for other vets in the area that I have been told are more gentle and tolerant of horses and not so conforontational with them. But in the meantime, what else can I do to get them accepting of a vet? I've had a couple people out here since and they were both accepting and curious of new people so I don't think its fear of people they don't know.

                                  They both have had the bonder done repeatedly and Rascal rarely need it because as soon as he seems me he comes up to my side and follows me everywhere. Very much a "Whatever I can do for you ma'am" type of horse wanting to please. He just completely loses it when he sees my vet.

                                  Thanks for any tips,

                                  Jessie

                                  =
                                • castleeden2@aol.com
                                  I kno that but the horse may associate his frightening experience with a man who is examining him -- just suggesting something different, j BTW, just because
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I kno that but the horse may associate his frightening experience with a man who is examining him -- just suggesting something different,
                                    j
                                    BTW, just because they are female doesn't mean they are better with animals
                                    or care more then their male counterparts.


                                     Julie Howard, CMT
                                    Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                                    9242A Mosby Street
                                    Manassas, Va 20110
                                    703-530-0100


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Nancy or MaryAnne <NMALEC@...>
                                    To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:24 am
                                    Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                     
                                    BTW, just because they are female doesn't mean they are better with animals
                                    or care more then their male counterparts.
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "jungle_cat80" <psych_1@...>
                                    To: <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:11 AM
                                    Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                    >I wish, but we have no female large-animal vets in the area.
                                    >
                                    > Jessie
                                    >
                                    > --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, castleeden2@... wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once! Cant
                                    >> you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots? If I gave a lot of
                                    >> vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...
                                    >> Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet -- maybe you could get
                                    >> a female vet?
                                    >> julie
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Julie Howard, CMT
                                    >> Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                                    >> 9242A Mosby Street
                                    >> Manassas, Va 20110
                                    >> 703-530-0100
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                  • jungle_cat80
                                    I really don t think that is the issue with this vet. We are in a bit of a back-woods area and old cowboy methods are ever present around here. For example -
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I really don't think that is the issue with this vet.

                                      We are in a bit of a back-woods area and old cowboy methods are ever present around here. For example - the last local person who was telling me how to "properly" break a horse to saddle told me I'm doing it all wrong. Gotta take them out to the middle of a very boggy pond and jump on. Let the horse buck it out and he will tire quickly. Once the buck is out, then ride the crap out of him. Then a neighbor told me I round pen incorrectly because my horses weren't sweaty enough (we were doing the bonder and the horse had done it before and within a few minutes already had the head lowered,etc) - but you are supposed to round pen them until they are about to drop. That is all they know and learn from - the lack of oxygen. Its really just the local mentality.

                                      What I've honestly seen with this vet is as his practice has grown (I started with him when he was fairly new to having his own practice) he has gotten less patient with the animals and takes less time with them. He wants to be in and out and be done where when he first started he would actually sweet talk and pet on them and let them get used to him first. In fact the only horse here that doesn't have a problem with him is the one he pets on - and that is because he really likes the breed.

                                      But anyway - that's not the point of this. I just need more tips on how to get them accepting of the next vet I bring in. I really think these 2 have a conditioned response to this vet now (especially considering Apaches reaction as soon as the vet even steps towards him) and even if he changes, unless he comes out so I can use him for desensitization, I don't think how they react to him is going to change.

                                      Also, what do you guys think of a vet smelling different possibly causing the reaction? This vet said that is hogwash because he has another customer that has horses that react like this and blamed it on the smell and he said its not true.

                                      Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is appreciated.

                                      Jessie

                                      --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "EVE HADLOCK" <sunarab@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I think that vet has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses
                                      > precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt.
                                      >
                                    • Rossin, Keria
                                      Eve I agree with most of what you say but I have seen farriers/vets that cause problems where there haven t been any. I had a farrier one time who was very
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        Eve I agree with most of what you say but I have seen farriers/vets that cause problems where there haven’t been any.  I had a farrier one time who was very good.  I had him trim my little pony (10 hh).  In the process of trimming him the pony started nosing the farrier’s back pocket – the place where I usually kept my treats for him.  The farrier turned around – he had a rasp in his hand and beat that pony 4 or 5 times with it.  I’m not just talking smack, I’m talking hit full force.  Needless to say I was both aghast and so shocked I didn’t react fast enough.  He finished trimming his hooves and I never had him back after – that was 10 years ago.  At that time I made a vow to myself that anyone who does not have enough skill/savvy to deal with an animal by any way other than force does not deserve to work on my animals nor get any portion of my paycheck.

                                         

                                        k

                                         

                                        From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EVE HADLOCK
                                        Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:40 AM
                                        To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                         

                                         

                                        That is so true.  Owners need to have their horses desensitized to everyday experiences as well as routine vet calls.  You cant prepare for the abnormal and you don't have to use a vet or farrier who use extreme measures to treat or work on your horse.  Get a horses familiar with a vet so they know them.  We do all our own vetting.  Hubby has the educational background to be a vet tech so that helps us a lot  as well as being a farrier.  We are a do all family.  We start a training horse today after 10 yrs of being retired.  Hurray.  This should be interesting starting a 4 yr old stallion who has had limited handling but well imprinted.  Gotta go.. 

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        -------Original Message-------

                                         

                                        Date: 4/5/2012 9:10:16 AM

                                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                         

                                         

                                        Also, you can't blame the vet for refusing to put himself in danger. Whatever the issue is (him or the horse) he can refuse to treat the horse if it isn't safe to do so.

                                        ~Jean~

                                        Everything that lives,
                                        Lives not alone, nor for itself. 
                                        -- William Blake, from Book of Thel

                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: EVE HADLOCK <sunarab@...>
                                        To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:44 am
                                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                         

                                        I think that vet  has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt. 

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        -------Original Message-------

                                         

                                        Date: 4/5/2012 7:29:58 AM

                                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                         

                                         

                                        this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once!  Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots?  If I gave a lot of vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...

                                        Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet --  maybe you could get a female vet?

                                        julie

                                        Description: Image removed by sender. Julie Howard, CMT
                                        Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                                        9242A Mosby Street
                                        Manassas, Va 20110
                                        703-530-0100

                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: jungle_cat80 <psych_1@...>
                                        To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18 am
                                        Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                         


                                        We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

                                        Thanks for feedback,

                                        Jessie

                                        --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                                        >
                                        > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                                        >
                                        > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                                        >
                                        > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                                        >
                                        > And this is all just my opinion.
                                        >
                                        > Regards
                                        > Keria

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        **********************************************************
                                        Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues
                                      • Rossin, Keria
                                        I don t think you are going to need them to be accepting of the next vet. I think this vet is the problem and you probably won t have problem with another.
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment

                                          I don’t think you are going to need them to be accepting of the next vet.  I think this vet is the problem and you probably won’t have problem with another.  But the only way you are going to learn that is by bringing out a new vet.  I would tell the new vet what the problem has been and you think it was a bad dynamic between him and the horses – not going into detail and not slandering your old vet – so he will have a heads up that there might be an issue and be prepared for it.  Basically you will be interviewing the vet to see how he handles your horses.  Remember, you are the paying customer.

                                          About smell… it’s a funny thing.  For myself I put a lot of faith in how people smell.  So why shouldn’t animals.  It’s been proven that pheromones have a lot to do with who we are attracted to.

                                          Keria

                                           

                                          But anyway - that's not the point of this. I just need more tips on how to get them accepting of the next vet I bring in. I really think these 2 have a conditioned response to this vet now (especially considering Apaches reaction as soon as the vet even steps towards him) and even if he changes, unless he comes out so I can use him for desensitization, I don't think how they react to him is going to change.

                                          Also, what do you guys think of a vet smelling different possibly causing the reaction? This vet said that is hogwash because he has another customer that has horses that react like this and blamed it on the smell and he said its not true.

                                          Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is appreciated.

                                          Jessie

                                          --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "EVE HADLOCK" <sunarab@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I think that vet has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses
                                          > precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt.
                                          >

                                          **********************************************************
                                          Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues
                                        • Lea Zukas
                                          Agreed and agreed with your post on not dealing with people who are rough with the animals. Some doctors/dentists/etc do have a different (antiseptic?) smell
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Agreed and agreed with your post on not dealing with people who are rough with the animals.

                                            Some doctors/dentists/etc do have a different (antiseptic?) smell to them -- I think it could be a genuine issue for some animals, just as it can be for some people.  I think it's silly for the vet to dismiss the possibility out of hand.

                                            It's a shame this vet has become so busy (well, he sounds like he could be overworked . . .) that he no longer takes the time to soothe the animals before starting work.

                                            I do see the point that someone made earlier as to the vet maybe having a frightening experience, but I think that in that case the vet should be taking precautions with THAT animal, not overreacting to every horse he deals with.  And slamming a horse against a wall?  Or beating a horse with a rasp?  Uh-uh.  There are more humane ways to deal with even large animals that are uncooperative.

                                            It can be frustrating when you're the lone voice for humane horsemanship, and you don't have to be out in the country or dealing with old cowboys to be in that situation!  We work mainly with people who show, and they can have just as many odd ideas as any wannabe bronc buster you've run across!  Natural Horsemanship isn't widely practiced, even here in Dallas -- not at our barn, anyway! 

                                            I deal with it by smiling and nodding, LOL, then just doing what I think is right.  After all, it's MY horse!

                                            As to women vets, we use either, but I prefer the two women vets we've used lately -- they've both had a gentler, calmer way to them and were very soothing to the horse.  They also -- IMO -- had a better way of dealing with the owner, as well, taking the time to answer questions, explain things, etc.  

                                            This is just my perspective AS A WOMAN, lol -- I'm not ragging on men in general or even male vets.  I just know what I like (for myself and my animals), and I'd rather spend the time and money dealing with someone I feel most comfortable with.

                                            I recently switch farriers for the same reason -- out of the two I was using, I just liked one better (both men, BTW).  One is a "good old boy" who is just too opinionated for my taste.  I want a professional's expertise, not a bunch of cowboy crap that doesn't apply to my situation (only english here, which is NOT meant to disparage western riders!).  The other farrier doesn't talk down to me, he's there when he says he will be, and he's more careful with my daughter's horse.  There are plenty of people who would prefer the farrier I didn't choose to work with, but I made the choice that was right for us.



                                            Lea





                                            On Apr 5, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Rossin, Keria wrote:

                                             

                                            I don’t think you are going to need them to be accepting of the next vet.  I think this vet is the problem and you probably won’t have problem with another.  But the only way you are going to learn that is by bringing out a new vet.  I would tell the new vet what the problem has been and you think it was a bad dynamic between him and the horses – not going into detail and not slandering your old vet – so he will have a heads up that there might be an issue and be prepared for it.  Basically you will be interviewing the vet to see how he handles your horses.  Remember, you are the paying customer.

                                            About smell… it’s a funny thing.  For myself I put a lot of faith in how people smell.  So why shouldn’t animals.  It’s been proven that pheromones have a lot to do with who we are attracted to.

                                            Keria

                                             

                                            But anyway - that's not the point of this. I just need more tips on how to get them accepting of the next vet I bring in. I really think these 2 have a conditioned response to this vet now (especially considering Apaches reaction as soon as the vet even steps towards him) and even if he changes, unless he comes out so I can use him for desensitization, I don't think how they react to him is going to change.

                                            Also, what do you guys think of a vet smelling different possibly causing the reaction? This vet said that is hogwash because he has another customer that has horses that react like this and blamed it on the smell and he said its not true.

                                            Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is appreciated.

                                            Jessie

                                            --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "EVE HADLOCK" <sunarab@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I think that vet has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses
                                            > precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt.
                                            >

                                            **********************************************************
                                            Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues


                                          • Rossin, Keria
                                            Yes, there are as many opinions as there are horse owners in the barn. I pretty much do the same: listen, thank the person, and then do what I think is best
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment

                                              Yes, there are as many opinions as there are horse owners in the barn.  I pretty much do the same: listen, thank the person, and then do what I think is best for MY horse. J  I used a vet service that had  woman and a man.  I actually preferred the man.  He didn’t talk down to me, explained what he was doing, etc.  The woman, while good, didn’t go into much level of detail.  So I tend to think that whole vet thing isn’t about man/woman, it’s really about who’s both good with the animals AND a good communicator.

                                               

                                              K

                                               

                                               

                                              We work mainly with people who show, and they can have just as many odd ideas as any wannabe bronc buster you've run across!  Natural Horsemanship isn't widely practiced, even here in Dallas -- not at our barn, anyway! 

                                               

                                              I deal with it by smiling and nodding, LOL, then just doing what I think is right.  After all, it's MY horse!

                                               

                                              As to women vets, we use either, but I prefer the two women vets we've used lately -- they've both had a gentler, calmer way to them and were very soothing to the horse.  They also -- IMO -- had a better way of dealing with the owner, as well, taking the time to answer questions, explain things, etc.  

                                               

                                              **********************************************************
                                              Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues
                                            • sunset6164@aol.com
                                              I ve found that horses are a lot like humans... Some people they just don t like and some people they do. I m like that myself. I bet your horse will
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I've found that horses are a lot like humans... Some people they just don't like and some people they do.  I'm like that myself.   I bet your horse will respond to another vet. 
                                                 
                                                 
                                                 
                                                 
                                                 
                                                In a message dated 4/5/2012 9:13:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, krossin@... writes:
                                                 

                                                I don’t think you are going to need them to be accepting of the next vet.  I think this vet is the problem and you probably won’t have problem with another.  But the only way you are going to learn that is by bringing out a new vet.  I would tell the new vet what the problem has been and you think it was a bad dynamic between him and the horses – not going into detail and not slandering your old vet – so he will have a heads up that there might be an issue and be prepared for it.  Basically you will be interviewing the vet to see how he handles your horses.  Remember, you are the paying customer.

                                                About smell… it’s a funny thing.  For myself I put a lot of faith in how people smell.  So why shouldn’t animals.  It’s been proven that pheromones have a lot to do with who we are attracted to.

                                                Keria

                                                But anyway - that's not the point of this. I just need more tips on how to get them accepting of the next vet I bring in. I really think these 2 have a conditioned response to this vet now (especially considering Apaches reaction as soon as the vet even steps towards him) and even if he changes, unless he comes out so I can use him for desensitization, I don't think how they react to him is going to change.

                                                Also, what do you guys think of a vet smelling different possibly causing the reaction? This vet said that is hogwash because he has another customer that has horses that react like this and blamed it on the smell and he said its not true.

                                                Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is appreciated.

                                                Jessie

                                                --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "EVE HADLOCK" <sunarab@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I think that vet has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses
                                                > precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt.
                                                >

                                                **********************************************************
                                                Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues





                                              • EVE HADLOCK
                                                Good for you!! Everyones personal preferences. ... From: Lea Zukas Date: 4/5/2012 11:04:14 AM To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Good for you!!  Everyones personal preferences. 
                                                   
                                                   
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                   
                                                  From: Lea Zukas
                                                  Date: 4/5/2012 11:04:14 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                                                   
                                                   

                                                  Agreed and agreed with your post on not dealing with people who are rough with the animals.


                                                  Some doctors/dentists/etc do have a different (antiseptic?) smell to them -- I think it could be a genuine issue for some animals, just as it can be for some people.  I think it's silly for the vet to dismiss the possibility out of hand.

                                                  It's a shame this vet has become so busy (well, he sounds like he could be overworked . . .) that he no longer takes the time to soothe the animals before starting work.

                                                  I do see the point that someone made earlier as to the vet maybe having a frightening experience, but I think that in that case the vet should be taking precautions with THAT animal, not overreacting to every horse he deals with.  And slamming a horse against a wall?  Or beating a horse with a rasp?  Uh-uh.  There are more humane ways to deal with even large animals that are uncooperative.

                                                  It can be frustrating when you're the lone voice for humane horsemanship, and you don't have to be out in the country or dealing with old cowboys to be in that situation!  We work mainly with people who show, and they can have just as many odd ideas as any wannabe bronc buster you've run across!  Natural Horsemanship isn't widely practiced, even here in Dallas -- not at our barn, anyway! 

                                                  I deal with it by smiling and nodding, LOL, then just doing what I think is right.  After all, it's MY horse!

                                                  As to women vets, we use either, but I prefer the two women vets we've used lately -- they've both had a gentler, calmer way to them and were very soothing to the horse.  They also -- IMO -- had a better way of dealing with the owner, as well, taking the time to answer questions, explain things, etc.  

                                                  This is just my perspective AS A WOMAN, lol -- I'm not ragging on men in general or even male vets.  I just know what I like (for myself and my animals), and I'd rather spend the time and money dealing with someone I feel most comfortable with.

                                                  I recently switch farriers for the same reason -- out of the two I was using, I just liked one better (both men, BTW).  One is a "good old boy" who is just too opinionated for my taste.  I want a professional's expertise, not a bunch of cowboy crap that doesn't apply to my situation (only english here, which is NOT meant to disparage western riders!).  The other farrier doesn't talk down to me, he's there when he says he will be, and he's more careful with my daughter's horse.  There are plenty of people who would prefer the farrier I didn't choose to work with, but I made the choice that was right for us.



                                                  Lea





                                                  On Apr 5, 2012, at 11:12 AM, Rossin, Keria wrote:

                                                   

                                                  I don’t think you are going to need them to be accepting of the next vet.  I think this vet is the problem and you probably won’t have problem with another.  But the only way you are going to learn that is by bringing out a new vet.  I would tell the new vet what the problem has been and you think it was a bad dynamic between him and the horses – not going into detail and not slandering your old vet – so he will have a heads up that there might be an issue and be prepared for it.  Basically you will be interviewing the vet to see how he handles your horses.  Remember, you are the paying customer.

                                                  About smell… it’s a funny thing.  For myself I put a lot of faith in how people smell.  So why shouldn’t animals.  It’s been proven that pheromones have a lot to do with who we are attracted to.

                                                  Keria

                                                   

                                                  But anyway - that's not the point of this. I just need more tips on how to get them accepting of the next vet I bring in. I really think these 2 have a conditioned response to this vet now (especially considering Apaches reaction as soon as the vet even steps towards him) and even if he changes, unless he comes out so I can use him for desensitization, I don't think how they react to him is going to change.

                                                  Also, what do you guys think of a vet smelling different possibly causing the reaction? This vet said that is hogwash because he has another customer that has horses that react like this and blamed it on the smell and he said its not true.

                                                  Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is appreciated.

                                                  Jessie

                                                  --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "EVE HADLOCK" <sunarab@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I think that vet has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses
                                                  > precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt.
                                                  >

                                                  **********************************************************
                                                  Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues


                                                   
                                                • EVE HADLOCK
                                                  Totally agree with that. These professionals should know better than beating an animals to be submissive. It doesn t always work, I think it causes more
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Totally agree with that.  These professionals should know better than beating an animals to be submissive.  It doesn't always work,  I think it causes more problems and if I witness it they would never be back to work on my horses.  Gentle is the only treatment my horses get.  That I why we do a lot of the stuff ourselves cause we then know how they will be treated. 
                                                     
                                                     
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                     
                                                    Date: 4/5/2012 10:08:52 AM
                                                    Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                                                     
                                                     

                                                    Eve I agree with most of what you say but I have seen farriers/vets that cause problems where there haven’t been any.  I had a farrier one time who was very good.  I had him trim my little pony (10 hh).  In the process of trimming him the pony started nosing the farrier’s back pocket – the place where I usually kept my treats for him.  The farrier turned around – he had a rasp in his hand and beat that pony 4 or 5 times with it.  I’m not just talking smack, I’m talking hit full force.  Needless to say I was both aghast and so shocked I didn’t react fast enough.  He finished trimming his hooves and I never had him back after – that was 10 years ago.  At that time I made a vow to myself that anyone who does not have enough skill/savvy to deal with an animal by any way other than force does not deserve to work on my animals nor get any portion of my paycheck.

                                                     

                                                    k

                                                     

                                                    From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EVE HADLOCK
                                                    Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:40 AM
                                                    To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    That is so true.  Owners need to have their horses desensitized to everyday experiences as well as routine vet calls.  You cant prepare for the abnormal and you don't have to use a vet or farrier who use extreme measures to treat or work on your horse.  Get a horses familiar with a vet so they know them.  We do all our own vetting.  Hubby has the educational background to be a vet tech so that helps us a lot  as well as being a farrier.  We are a do all family.  We start a training horse today after 10 yrs of being retired.  Hurray.  This should be interesting starting a 4 yr old stallion who has had limited handling but well imprinted.  Gotta go.. 

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                     

                                                    Date: 4/5/2012 9:10:16 AM

                                                    Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Also, you can't blame the vet for refusing to put himself in danger. Whatever the issue is (him or the horse) he can refuse to treat the horse if it isn't safe to do so.

                                                    ~Jean~

                                                    Everything that lives,
                                                    Lives not alone, nor for itself. 
                                                    -- William Blake, from Book of Thel

                                                     

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: EVE HADLOCK <sunarab@...>
                                                    To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:44 am
                                                    Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                     

                                                    I think that vet  has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt. 

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                     

                                                    Date: 4/5/2012 7:29:58 AM

                                                    Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once!  Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots?  If I gave a lot of vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...

                                                    Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet --  maybe you could get a female vet?

                                                    julie

                                                    Description: Image removed by sender. Julie Howard, CMT
                                                    Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                                                    9242A Mosby Street
                                                    Manassas, Va 20110
                                                    703-530-0100

                                                     

                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: jungle_cat80 <psych_1@...>
                                                    To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18 am
                                                    Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                     


                                                    We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

                                                    Thanks for feedback,

                                                    Jessie

                                                    --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                                                    >
                                                    > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                                                    >
                                                    > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                                                    >
                                                    > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                                                    >
                                                    > And this is all just my opinion.
                                                    >
                                                    > Regards
                                                    > Keria

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    **********************************************************
                                                    Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues

                                                     
                                                  • EVE HADLOCK
                                                    Sounds like a money wannabe. He is only doing it for the money he can make. No love of animals just money. I don t believe in the cowboy methods of
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Apr 5, 2012
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Sounds like a money wannabe.  He is only doing it for the money he can make.  No love of animals just money.  I don't believe in the cowboy methods of anything.  The people that live around me are wannabe cowboys and cant stand how they treat their animals.  Uneducated but think they know everything.  Tell us what we are doing wrong.  I would take our way before I would take their advice.  Been doing this too long to listen to them.  
                                                       
                                                       
                                                       
                                                       
                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                       
                                                      Date: 4/5/2012 10:01:01 AM
                                                      Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue
                                                       
                                                       

                                                      I really don't think that is the issue with this vet.

                                                      We are in a bit of a back-woods area and old cowboy methods are ever present around here. For example - the last local person who was telling me how to "properly" break a horse to saddle told me I'm doing it all wrong. Gotta take them out to the middle of a very boggy pond and jump on. Let the horse buck it out and he will tire quickly. Once the buck is out, then ride the crap out of him. Then a neighbor told me I round pen incorrectly because my horses weren't sweaty enough (we were doing the bonder and the horse had done it before and within a few minutes already had the head lowered,etc) - but you are supposed to round pen them until they are about to drop. That is all they know and learn from - the lack of oxygen. Its really just the local mentality.

                                                      What I've honestly seen with this vet is as his practice has grown (I started with him when he was fairly new to having his own practice) he has gotten less patient with the animals and takes less time with them. He wants to be in and out and be done where when he first started he would actually sweet talk and pet on them and let them get used to him first. In fact the only horse here that doesn't have a problem with him is the one he pets on - and that is because he really likes the breed.

                                                      But anyway - that's not the point of this. I just need more tips on how to get them accepting of the next vet I bring in. I really think these 2 have a conditioned response to this vet now (especially considering Apaches reaction as soon as the vet even steps towards him) and even if he changes, unless he comes out so I can use him for desensitization, I don't think how they react to him is going to change.

                                                      Also, what do you guys think of a vet smelling different possibly causing the reaction? This vet said that is hogwash because he has another customer that has horses that react like this and blamed it on the smell and he said its not true.

                                                      Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is appreciated.

                                                      Jessie

                                                      --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "EVE HADLOCK" <sunarab@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I think that vet has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses
                                                      > precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt.
                                                      >

                                                       
                                                    • Rossin, Keria
                                                      When I was buying Toby the woman I was buying him from took him to her trainers so I could ride - it was winter in Michigan and she didn t have an indoor, he
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Apr 6, 2012
                                                      • 0 Attachment

                                                        When I was buying Toby the woman I was buying him from took him to her trainers so I could ride – it was winter in Michigan and she didn’t have an indoor, he did.  I rode him and bought him and DeeAnn was going to take him back home till I could arrange transportation.  (He was up near Gaylord, I am down in Milford – about 3 hours).  He didn’t want to get on the trailer and the trainer had a crop and he started smacking him around the head to get him to load. Even when Toby attempted to load the trainer kept hitting him around the head.  I darn near ripped that thing out of his hand ready to beat him around the head.  Crap like that just infuriates me.

                                                         

                                                        From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EVE HADLOCK
                                                        Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 7:59 PM
                                                        To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Totally agree with that.  These professionals should know better than beating an animals to be submissive.  It doesn't always work,  I think it causes more problems and if I witness it they would never be back to work on my horses.  Gentle is the only treatment my horses get.  That I why we do a lot of the stuff ourselves cause we then know how they will be treated. 

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                         

                                                        Date: 4/5/2012 10:08:52 AM

                                                        Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Eve I agree with most of what you say but I have seen farriers/vets that cause problems where there haven’t been any.  I had a farrier one time who was very good.  I had him trim my little pony (10 hh).  In the process of trimming him the pony started nosing the farrier’s back pocket – the place where I usually kept my treats for him.  The farrier turned around – he had a rasp in his hand and beat that pony 4 or 5 times with it.  I’m not just talking smack, I’m talking hit full force.  Needless to say I was both aghast and so shocked I didn’t react fast enough.  He finished trimming his hooves and I never had him back after – that was 10 years ago.  At that time I made a vow to myself that anyone who does not have enough skill/savvy to deal with an animal by any way other than force does not deserve to work on my animals nor get any portion of my paycheck.

                                                         

                                                        k

                                                         

                                                        From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EVE HADLOCK
                                                        Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:40 AM
                                                        To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        That is so true.  Owners need to have their horses desensitized to everyday experiences as well as routine vet calls.  You cant prepare for the abnormal and you don't have to use a vet or farrier who use extreme measures to treat or work on your horse.  Get a horses familiar with a vet so they know them.  We do all our own vetting.  Hubby has the educational background to be a vet tech so that helps us a lot  as well as being a farrier.  We are a do all family.  We start a training horse today after 10 yrs of being retired.  Hurray.  This should be interesting starting a 4 yr old stallion who has had limited handling but well imprinted.  Gotta go.. 

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                         

                                                        Date: 4/5/2012 9:10:16 AM

                                                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Also, you can't blame the vet for refusing to put himself in danger. Whatever the issue is (him or the horse) he can refuse to treat the horse if it isn't safe to do so.

                                                        ~Jean~

                                                        Everything that lives,
                                                        Lives not alone, nor for itself. 
                                                        -- William Blake, from Book of Thel

                                                         

                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                        From: EVE HADLOCK <sunarab@...>
                                                        To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:44 am
                                                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                         

                                                        I think that vet  has had a frightening experience with a horse and now uses precautionary practices to save himself of getting hurt. 

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                         

                                                        Date: 4/5/2012 7:29:58 AM

                                                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        this is just my opinion but, yes, I think that's too much at once!  Cant you get your own vaccines? and give your own shots?  If I gave a lot of vaccines to my cavaliers, they would seizure and die...

                                                        Apparently, your horse is frightened of this vet --  maybe you could get a female vet?

                                                        julie

                                                        Description: Description: Image removed by sender. Julie Howard, CMT
                                                        Healing Touch Therapeutic Massage
                                                        9242A Mosby Street
                                                        Manassas, Va 20110
                                                        703-530-0100

                                                         

                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                        From: jungle_cat80 <psych_1@...>
                                                        To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18 am
                                                        Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                         


                                                        We just had coggins and shots done and that is when all this happened. We give WNV-EWT (a 4-way) and Rabies to our horses. Do you think this is too much at once?

                                                        Thanks for feedback,

                                                        Jessie

                                                        --- In MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Rossin, Keria" <krossin@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Well, sounds pretty person specific. It might be worth your while to just have another vet come out and see how they react. Do you need Coggins done or anything. Personally if someone twitched me and slammed me up against a wall I would not be happy to see him.
                                                        >
                                                        > My other thought is this on Apache... what kind of shots are you doing? If you are doing the 6-way it is hard on their systems and it may be a function of him seeing the vet and putting that together with feeling pretty crappy afterwards.
                                                        >
                                                        > I am not a big believer in shots if I don't need them. I would rather get some titers pulled and see what they need in the way of antibodies. You might look into that. And again, you might have a different vet come out and just pull some blood - something benign to see what reaction they are having.
                                                        >
                                                        > If you have desensitized them with strangers I'm not sure what else you can do. And if your friends are recommending 'gentler more tolerant vets' then there is something they are saying there. And I would NOT tie up anyone's leg. That is not going to make the problem go away. It will just make it worse. I think you vet needs to garner a better stall-side manner or maybe you can tie his leg up?
                                                        >
                                                        > And this is all just my opinion.
                                                        >
                                                        > Regards
                                                        > Keria

                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        **********************************************************
                                                        Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues

                                                         

                                                        **********************************************************
                                                        Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues
                                                      • critterkeeper127@aol.com
                                                        Infuriating and completely baffling to me! What on earth could hitting him when he was near or trying to go in the trailer teach him? Hmmm...maybe that the
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Apr 6, 2012
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Infuriating and completely baffling to me!  What on earth could hitting him when he was near or trying to go in the trailer teach him?  Hmmm...maybe that the trailer and trying to load onto it are bad/scary/painful???  So all the "trainer" was doing was setting Toby up to have even worse problems loading in the future!  I just will NEVER understand some people!
                                                          Jenn


                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: Rossin, Keria <krossin@...>
                                                          To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:03 am
                                                          Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                           
                                                          When I was buying Toby the woman I was buying him from took him to her trainers so I could ride – it was winter in Michigan and she didn’t have an indoor, he did.  I rode him and bought him and DeeAnn was going to take him back home till I could arrange transportation.  (He was up near Gaylord, I am down in Milford – about 3 hours).  He didn’t want to get on the trailer and the trainer had a crop and he started smacking him around the head to get him to load. Even when Toby attempted to load the trainer kept hitting him around the head.  I darn near ripped that thing out of his hand ready to beat him around the head.  Crap like that just infuriates me.
                                                           


                                                        • Rossin, Keria
                                                          Well I think I said “What the h*ll are you doing?” And he said: “I want him to be more afraid of me than the trailer.” Now is that stupid or what! I
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Apr 6, 2012
                                                          • 0 Attachment

                                                            Well I think I said “What the h*ll are you doing?” And he said:  “I want him to be more afraid of me than the trailer.”  Now is that stupid or what!  I swear he is lucky he still has all his man parts.

                                                             

                                                            So what ended up happening – just as you said … Toby is afraid of a trailer. I have a friend that is going to help me this summer teach him to load and reprogram him.  When we got ready to come up here from where we boarded before I got married, he would not load.  I had to put Heather (at the time 29) into the trailer first.  She hoped right in – and she hadn’t been on a trailer since she was 3 years old.  He figured it was okay so then he got on.  Diana is going to come with her horse and trailer and he can watch her horse load a few times, then get on too; then we’ll try solo after he does it with another horse in the trailer first.

                                                             

                                                            From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of critterkeeper127@...
                                                            Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 9:56 AM
                                                            To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Infuriating and completely baffling to me!  What on earth could hitting him when he was near or trying to go in the trailer teach him?  Hmmm...maybe that the trailer and trying to load onto it are bad/scary/painful???  So all the "trainer" was doing was setting Toby up to have even worse problems loading in the future!  I just will NEVER understand some people!
                                                            Jenn

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                            From: Rossin, Keria <krossin@...>
                                                            To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:03 am
                                                            Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                             

                                                            When I was buying Toby the woman I was buying him from took him to her trainers so I could ride – it was winter in Michigan and she didn’t have an indoor, he did.  I rode him and bought him and DeeAnn was going to take him back home till I could arrange transportation.  (He was up near Gaylord, I am down in Milford – about 3 hours).  He didn’t want to get on the trailer and the trainer had a crop and he started smacking him around the head to get him to load. Even when Toby attempted to load the trainer kept hitting him around the head.  I darn near ripped that thing out of his hand ready to beat him around the head.  Crap like that just infuriates me.

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            **********************************************************
                                                            Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues
                                                          • Margo Nielsen
                                                            I have found that loading a frightened horse on a trailer with a calm horse already inside teaches them that it is okay, especially a new horse that you
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Apr 6, 2012
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              I have found that loading a frightened horse on a trailer with a calm horse already inside teaches them that it is okay, especially a new horse that you haven't handled before.

                                                              Animal Control occasionally calls me and one other horse owner to help them pick up stray horses and donkeys every once in a while. She has a very long trailer with a huge escape door. I would bring Toffah and load her first, and the other horses would follow her right in. Then I would have her jump out of the front escape door and take her home!

                                                              Margo



                                                              On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Rossin, Keria <krossin@...> wrote:


                                                              Well I think I said “What the h*ll are you doing?” And he said:  “I want him to be more afraid of me than the trailer.”  Now is that stupid or what!  I swear he is lucky he still has all his man parts.

                                                               

                                                              So what ended up happening – just as you said … Toby is afraid of a trailer. I have a friend that is going to help me this summer teach him to load and reprogram him.  When we got ready to come up here from where we boarded before I got married, he would not load.  I had to put Heather (at the time 29) into the trailer first.  She hoped right in – and she hadn’t been on a trailer since she was 3 years old.  He figured it was okay so then he got on.  Diana is going to come with her horse and trailer and he can watch her horse load a few times, then get on too; then we’ll try solo after he does it with another horse in the trailer first.

                                                               

                                                              From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of critterkeeper127@...
                                                              Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 9:56 AM


                                                              To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Infuriating and completely baffling to me!  What on earth could hitting him when he was near or trying to go in the trailer teach him?  Hmmm...maybe that the trailer and trying to load onto it are bad/scary/painful???  So all the "trainer" was doing was setting Toby up to have even worse problems loading in the future!  I just will NEVER understand some people!
                                                              Jenn

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                              From: Rossin, Keria <krossin@...>
                                                              To: MarvWalkerHorses <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 7:03 am
                                                              Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] Re: Vet issue

                                                               

                                                              When I was buying Toby the woman I was buying him from took him to her trainers so I could ride – it was winter in Michigan and she didn’t have an indoor, he did.  I rode him and bought him and DeeAnn was going to take him back home till I could arrange transportation.  (He was up near Gaylord, I am down in Milford – about 3 hours).  He didn’t want to get on the trailer and the trainer had a crop and he started smacking him around the head to get him to load. Even when Toby attempted to load the trainer kept hitting him around the head.  I darn near ripped that thing out of his hand ready to beat him around the head.  Crap like that just infuriates me.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              **********************************************************

                                                              Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues





                                                              --
                                                              www.nielsenhausdesigns.com
                                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.