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New CPR

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  • Marv Walker
    There is a new CPR method that requires no breathing. Essentially you just keep pounding away. The list seems to have fallen to the ground and there is little
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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      There is a new CPR method that requires no breathing. Essentially
      you just keep pounding
      away.

      The list seems to have fallen to the ground and there is little sign
      of a pulse.

      So, it's time to pound away.

      We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
      comment they want
      to learn more about horses.

      Well, don't let them down.

      What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
      curious minds
      want to know.

      Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker
    • ladybugranchnm@gmail.com
      I have learned that you can learn a lot about horses by just sitting in a lawn chair (or on the ground, or anywhere) and watching them interact with each
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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        I have learned that you can learn a lot about horses by just sitting in a lawn chair (or on the ground, or anywhere) and watching them interact with each other. Their body language is direct and straight-forward, and easy to learn if you're willing to watch.

        :)

        Nicole in New Mexico
        Ladybug Ranch

        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


        From: Marv Walker <Marv@...>
        Sender: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:59:52 -0400
        To: <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

         

        There is a new CPR method that requires no breathing. Essentially
        you just keep pounding
        away.

        The list seems to have fallen to the ground and there is little sign
        of a pulse.

        So, it's time to pound away.

        We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
        comment they want
        to learn more about horses.

        Well, don't let them down.

        What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
        curious minds
        want to know.

        Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker

      • Roxanna Vickrey
        I have learned that you NEVER stop learning!!!  And sometimes horses actions don t always make sense no matter how hard you try to figure it out.  The other
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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          I have learned that you NEVER stop learning!!!  And sometimes horses actions don't always make sense no matter how hard you try to figure it out.  The other day I was outside and I happened to look out towards the pasture.  What I saw puzzled me, but I found it quite hilarious.  My alpha mare Sequoia was just walking behind one of the other mares, she was not chasing per se, but wherever Nikki walked Sequoia calmly walked behind her just keeping her moving.  There didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it just slowly traversing around the pasture.  I am sure Sequoia had a motive but as I stood there and watched I certainly couldn't figure it out.  It went on for about 5 or 6 minutes then Sequoia just stopped and Nikki stopped and Sequoia walked away.  Very interesting!

          Rox in CA


          From: "ladybugranchnm@..." <ladybugranchnm@...>
          To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 10:17 AM
          Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR



          I have learned that you can learn a lot about horses by just sitting in a lawn chair (or on the ground, or anywhere) and watching them interact with each other. Their body language is direct and straight-forward, and easy to learn if you're willing to watch.

          :)

          Nicole in New Mexico
          Ladybug Ranch
          Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

          From: Marv Walker <Marv@...>
          Sender: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:59:52 -0400
          To: <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
          ReplyTo: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

           
          There is a new CPR method that requires no breathing. Essentially
          you just keep pounding
          away.

          The list seems to have fallen to the ground and there is little sign
          of a pulse.

          So, it's time to pound away.

          We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
          comment they want
          to learn more about horses.

          Well, don't let them down.

          What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
          curious minds
          want to know.

          Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker





        • Pam Stephenson
          I am one of the new ones on the list...I learned the hard way that two mares ...at least my two...are not a good mix. I am convinced my paint would be dead if
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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            I am one of the new ones on the list...I learned the hard way that two mares ...at least my two...are not a good mix.
            I am convinced my paint would be dead if I had not been there to call my quarter horse off of her....At least Dixie listens to me well...
            NJ was standing at the gate one morning where Dixie likes to stand and wait on me to come outside with the dogs. NJ was nudged to move out of the way
            and when no response Dixie nipped her, NJ kicked Dixie, Dixie whirled around and they were double barrel kicking each other.
            NJ was pushed into the gate where her neck was sliced four times about half an inch deep and six inches across, she has a huge bruise on her white butt,
             a tennis ball size scrape on her inside knee and multiple other cuts and lazerations. Her front foot went through the wire gate and cut her just above the hoof also.
            I went to where Dixie could see me and Yelled and waved at her and she broke it off. Dixie has a small scrape..that is all. She is a Big mare with a lot of muscle and
            a good opinion of herself. NJ is smaller and much more demure...Now she is more of a nervous wreck if Dixie is around.
            They have been pastured together for three months.
             
            Pam in Alabama
             


            From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marv Walker
            Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 12:00 PM
            To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

             

            There is a new CPR method that requires no breathing. Essentially
            you just keep pounding
            away.

            The list seems to have fallen to the ground and there is little sign
            of a pulse.

            So, it's time to pound away.

            We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
            comment they want
            to learn more about horses.

            Well, don't let them down.

            What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
            curious minds
            want to know.

            Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker


            No virus found in this message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 2012.0.1809 / Virus Database: 2085/4537 - Release Date: 10/04/11

          • cob4cob@aol.com
            In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@MarvWalker.com writes: We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the comment
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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              In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:
              We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
              comment they want
              to learn more about horses.

              Well, don't let them down.

              What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
              curious minds
              want to know.

              Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker
              Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....
               
              (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."
               
              (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.
               
              (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.
               
              (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.
               
              (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.
               
              (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.
               
              (7) Better to be liked than dominate.
               
              (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.
               
              (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)
               
              (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.
               
              (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.
               
              (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.
               
               
              Regards,
               
              Colin.
               
              UK.

            • RHONDA LEVINSON
              Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You ll just start a fight. Too true, Colin! I really disagreed with a few of the things
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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                "Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight."  Too true, Colin!  I really disagreed with a few of the things you said.  LOL.  Especially about walking away when things go wrong.  If I stop putting pressure on my horse while he is still giving the wrong answer, then I have REWARDED him for the wrong answer and that just makes things harder the next time.  Also, I really don't care if certain horses like me or don't like me.  I care that they RESPECT me and my space, and sometimes force is necessary to accomplish that.  I am not a horse, it's true, but I am CERTAIN that I cannot hit a horse harder than it will be kicked by another horse.  And I am equally certain that certain behaviors (biting for instance) must be met with force in order to convince the horse that biting is the wrong answer, ALWAYS and in all circumstances with a human. 

                Rhonda

                 
                 
                 
                In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:
                We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                comment they want
                to learn more about horses.

                Well, don't let them down.

                What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                curious minds
                want to know.

                Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker
                Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....
                 
                (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."
                 
                (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.
                 
                (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.
                 
                (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.
                 
                (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.
                 
                (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.
                 
                (7) Better to be liked than dominate.
                 
                (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.
                 
                (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)
                 
                (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.
                 
                (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.
                 
                (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.
                 
                 
                Regards,
                 
                Colin.
                 
                UK.


              • ladybugranchnm@gmail.com
                Colin, Great list. While I don t agree with all of them, I found some interesting and spot on with my philosophies. I m curious about number (6), can you
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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                  Colin,

                  Great list. While I don't agree with all of them, I found some interesting and spot on with my philosophies. I'm curious about number (6), can you expand on it? I'm curious what you mean.

                  Thanks!
                  Nicole in New Mexico
                  Ladybug Ranch

                  Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                  From: cob4cob@...
                  Sender: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 15:11:43 -0400 (EDT)
                  To: <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                  ReplyTo: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                   

                   
                   
                  In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:
                  We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                  comment they want
                  to learn more about horses.

                  Well, don't let them down.

                  What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                  curious minds
                  want to know.

                  Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker
                  Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....
                   
                  (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."
                   
                  (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.
                   
                  (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.
                   
                  (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.
                   
                  (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.
                   
                  (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.
                   
                  (7) Better to be liked than dominate.
                   
                  (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.
                   
                  (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)
                   
                  (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.
                   
                  (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.
                   
                  (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.
                   
                   
                  Regards,
                   
                  Colin.
                   
                  UK.

                • Pam Stephenson
                  I so agree Rhonda! I want Dixie to Respect me...she is the type if she does not it will go south fast. So I am not her buddy :) But I love the do not micro
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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                    I so agree Rhonda! I want Dixie to Respect me...she is the type if she does not it will go south fast. So I am not her buddy :)
                    But I love the do not micro manage...that is my biggest downfall especially when the boys are working with NJ, our paint.
                    Pam in Alabama


                    From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RHONDA LEVINSON
                    Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 2:18 PM
                    To: HORSES LIST
                    Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] lists

                     

                    "Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight."  Too true, Colin!  I really disagreed with a few of the things you said.  LOL.  Especially about walking away when things go wrong.  If I stop putting pressure on my horse while he is still giving the wrong answer, then I have REWARDED him for the wrong answer and that just makes things harder the next time.  Also, I really don't care if certain horses like me or don't like me.  I care that they RESPECT me and my space, and sometimes force is necessary to accomplish that.  I am not a horse, it's true, but I am CERTAIN that I cannot hit a horse harder than it will be kicked by another horse.  And I am equally certain that certain behaviors (biting for instance) must be met with force in order to convince the horse that biting is the wrong answer, ALWAYS and in all circumstances with a human. 

                    Rhonda

                     
                     
                     
                    In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:
                    We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                    comment they want
                    to learn more about horses.

                    Well, don't let them down.

                    What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                    curious minds
                    want to know.

                    Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker
                    Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....
                     
                    (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."
                     
                    (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.
                     
                    (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.
                     
                    (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.
                     
                    (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.
                     
                    (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.
                     
                    (7) Better to be liked than dominate.
                     
                    (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.
                     
                    (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)
                     
                    (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.
                     
                    (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.
                     
                    (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.
                     
                     
                    Regards,
                     
                    Colin.
                     
                    UK.



                    No virus found in this message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 2012.0.1809 / Virus Database: 2085/4537 - Release Date: 10/04/11

                  • ladybugranchnm@gmail.com
                    Hi Pam, Welcome to the list. I am a lurker 99% of the time, but I read all the posts. I hope your horses are well on their way to recovery after their ordeal!
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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                      Hi Pam,

                      Welcome to the list. I am a lurker 99% of the time, but I read all the posts.

                      I hope your horses are well on their way to recovery after their ordeal! Are they still turned out together? I have found that it completely depends on the personality of the horses as to whether they'll get along., and not necessarily their gender.

                      I have two mares that are best buddies. They will eat nose to nose and are completely peaceful. However, my best friend has two geldings that cannot be together as one of them will constantly beat up on the other one.

                      Nicole in New Mexico
                      Ladybug Ranch

                      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                      From: "Pam Stephenson" <harmony7@...>
                      Sender: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:10:07 -0500
                      To: <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                      ReplyTo: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                       

                      I am one of the new ones on the list...I learned the hard way that two mares ...at least my two...are not a good mix.
                      I am convinced my paint would be dead if I had not been there to call my quarter horse off of her....At least Dixie listens to me well...
                      NJ was standing at the gate one morning where Dixie likes to stand and wait on me to come outside with the dogs. NJ was nudged to move out of the way
                      and when no response Dixie nipped her, NJ kicked Dixie, Dixie whirled around and they were double barrel kicking each other.
                      NJ was pushed into the gate where her neck was sliced four times about half an inch deep and six inches across, she has a huge bruise on her white butt,
                       a tennis ball size scrape on her inside knee and multiple other cuts and lazerations. Her front foot went through the wire gate and cut her just above the hoof also.
                      I went to where Dixie could see me and Yelled and waved at her and she broke it off. Dixie has a small scrape..that is all. She is a Big mare with a lot of muscle and
                      a good opinion of herself. NJ is smaller and much more demure...Now she is more of a nervous wreck if Dixie is around.
                      They have been pastured together for three months.
                       
                      Pam in Alabama
                       


                      From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marv Walker
                      Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 12:00 PM
                      To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                       

                      There is a new CPR method that requires no breathing. Essentially
                      you just keep pounding
                      away.

                      The list seems to have fallen to the ground and there is little sign
                      of a pulse.

                      So, it's time to pound away.

                      We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                      comment they want
                      to learn more about horses.

                      Well, don't let them down.

                      What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                      curious minds
                      want to know.

                      Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker


                      No virus found in this message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 2012.0.1809 / Virus Database: 2085/4537 - Release Date: 10/04/11

                    • Pam Stephenson
                      Thank you Nicole! Dixie the quarter horse is fine, Norma Jean (NJ) needs a bath to get the meds off of her but she is well on her way to healing. Her legs have
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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                        Thank you Nicole!
                         
                        Dixie the quarter horse is fine, Norma Jean (NJ) needs a bath to get the meds off of her but she is well on her way to healing. Her legs have scabbed over and fallen off hair is growing back and the big bruise is gone. Her neck is still healing but it looks good. I separate them at night now and turn them out during the day in a larger pasture. No more turn out paddocks or smaller areas for them. NJ needs to have an escape route. Dixie normally just gives her The Look and she submits, but not that day and she paid!
                         
                        I am pretty new to horses but dont mind asking, reading and watching and listening.
                         
                        Question...those of you who do not show or use your horses for work..how often do you ride to keep them tuned up? How often do they need ground worked if you do not ride? NJ was ridden by the kids about a month ago before the big fight...Dixie has not been ridden in about two months due to schedule and also she has some swelling from the fight.
                         
                        Pam in Alabama
                         
                         


                        From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ladybugranchnm@...
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 2:46 PM
                        To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                         

                        Hi Pam,

                        Welcome to the list. I am a lurker 99% of the time, but I read all the posts.

                        I hope your horses are well on their way to recovery after their ordeal! Are they still turned out together? I have found that it completely depends on the personality of the horses as to whether they'll get along., and not necessarily their gender.

                        I have two mares that are best buddies. They will eat nose to nose and are completely peaceful. However, my best friend has two geldings that cannot be together as one of them will constantly beat up on the other one.

                        Nicole in New Mexico
                        Ladybug Ranch

                        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                        From: "Pam Stephenson" <harmony7@...>
                        Sender: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:10:07 -0500
                        To: <MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com>
                        ReplyTo: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                         

                        I am one of the new ones on the list...I learned the hard way that two mares ...at least my two...are not a good mix.
                        I am convinced my paint would be dead if I had not been there to call my quarter horse off of her....At least Dixie listens to me well...
                        NJ was standing at the gate one morning where Dixie likes to stand and wait on me to come outside with the dogs. NJ was nudged to move out of the way
                        and when no response Dixie nipped her, NJ kicked Dixie, Dixie whirled around and they were double barrel kicking each other.
                        NJ was pushed into the gate where her neck was sliced four times about half an inch deep and six inches across, she has a huge bruise on her white butt,
                         a tennis ball size scrape on her inside knee and multiple other cuts and lazerations. Her front foot went through the wire gate and cut her just above the hoof also.
                        I went to where Dixie could see me and Yelled and waved at her and she broke it off. Dixie has a small scrape..that is all. She is a Big mare with a lot of muscle and
                        a good opinion of herself. NJ is smaller and much more demure...Now she is more of a nervous wreck if Dixie is around.
                        They have been pastured together for three months.
                         
                        Pam in Alabama
                         


                        From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marv Walker
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 12:00 PM
                        To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                         

                        There is a new CPR method that requires no breathing. Essentially
                        you just keep pounding
                        away.

                        The list seems to have fallen to the ground and there is little sign
                        of a pulse.

                        So, it's time to pound away.

                        We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                        comment they want
                        to learn more about horses.

                        Well, don't let them down.

                        What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                        curious minds
                        want to know.

                        Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker


                        No virus found in this message.
                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        Version: 2012.0.1809 / Virus Database: 2085/4537 - Release Date: 10/04/11


                        No virus found in this message.
                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        Version: 2012.0.1809 / Virus Database: 2085/4537 - Release Date: 10/04/11

                      • cob4cob@aol.com
                        In a message dated 04/10/2011 20:18:08 GMT Daylight Time, rhndlev@msn.com writes: Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You ll
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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                          In a message dated 04/10/2011 20:18:08 GMT Daylight Time, rhndlev@... writes:
                          "Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight."  Too true, Colin!  I really disagreed with a few of the things you said.  LOL.  Especially about walking away when things go wrong.  If I stop putting pressure on my horse while he is still giving the wrong answer, then I have REWARDED him for the wrong answer and that just makes things harder the next time.  Also, I really don't care if certain horses like me or don't like me.  I care that they RESPECT me and my space, and sometimes force is necessary to accomplish that.  I am not a horse, it's true, but I am CERTAIN that I cannot hit a horse harder than it will be kicked by another horse.  And I am equally certain that certain behaviors (biting for instance) must be met with force in order to convince the horse that biting is the wrong answer, ALWAYS and in all circumstances with a human. 

                          Rhonda
                          Please take these answers in the spirit intended, not being critical or rude...

                          Too true, Colin! I really disagreed with a few of the things you said. LOL. Especially about walking away when things go wrong. If I stop putting pressure on my horse while he is still giving the wrong answer, then I have REWARDED him for the wrong answer and that just makes things harder the next time.
                          If you have to up the pressure to get the right answer, you're asking in the wrong way. Find a way to rephrase the request in a way the horse can understand. If you 'let him off the hook' a few times, you won't ruin him for the rest of his life. Giving him the chance to think things through for himself, without the pressure will often help him learn quicker.
                           
                          Also, I really don't care if certain horses like me or don't like me. I care that they RESPECT me and my space, and sometimes force is necessary to accomplish that.
                           
                          To quote a very good friend of mine, Ben Hart of 'Hart's Horsemanship'...
                           
                          "You can't make a horse respect you, you can only be the sort of person a horse will respect."
                           
                           
                          My own horses have always been allowed to enter my personal space as they see fit, the rules that they apply when close to me or any other human, are entirely of their own making. Respect has grown between us because we trust one another. Never once have they ever given me cause for concern.., Had I used force, we would not have the relationship we have today.
                           
                          I am not a horse, it's true, but I am CERTAIN that I cannot hit a horse harder than it will be kicked by another horse. And I am equally certain that certain behaviors (biting for instance) must be met with force in order to convince the horse that biting is the wrong answer, ALWAYS and in all circumstances with a human.
                           
                          But why would you want to hit a horse. Studies on wild and feral horses have repeatedly shown that violence among horses in herds happens in such small amounts that it is almost insignificant. My horses don't bite, they never have and I see no reason why they should suddenly change that behaviour. They know that good behaviour gets them what they want quicker. What do you do if, after punishment, the biter turns round and double barrels you, or chases you off? Never start a war with a horse... you will lose.
                           
                          Regards.
                           
                          Colin
                           
                          UK.
                           
                        • Patricia Harris
                          Furnny!   Tricia Patricia A. Harris ________________________________ From: cob4cob@aol.com To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Furnny!
                             
                            Tricia
                             
                            Patricia A. Harris
                            From: "cob4cob@..." <cob4cob@...>
                            To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 3:11 PM
                            Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR



                             
                             
                            In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:
                            We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                            comment they want
                            to learn more about horses.

                            Well, don't let them down.

                            What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                            curious minds
                            want to know.

                            Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker
                            Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....
                             
                            (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."
                             
                            (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.
                             
                            (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.
                             
                            (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.
                             
                            (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.
                             
                            (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.
                             
                            (7) Better to be liked than dominate.
                             
                            (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.
                             
                            (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)
                             
                            (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.
                             
                            (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.
                             
                            (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.
                             
                             
                            Regards,
                             
                            Colin.
                             
                            UK.





                          • cob4cob@aol.com
                            In a message dated 04/10/2011 20:32:11 GMT Daylight Time, ladybugranchnm@gmail.com writes: Colin, Great list. While I don t agree with all of them, I found
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 4, 2011
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                              In a message dated 04/10/2011 20:32:11 GMT Daylight Time, ladybugranchnm@... writes:
                              Colin,

                              Great list. While I don't agree with all of them, I found some interesting and spot on with my philosophies. I'm curious about number (6), can you expand on it? I'm curious what you mean.

                              Thanks!
                              Nicole in New Mexico
                              Ladybug Ranch
                              OK, I'll give you a couple of examples...
                               
                              My OH and I cared for a horse at the farm where we keep two of ours. It belonged to two women who were going on holiday for a couple of weeks. Many times I had seen them wrestling with the horse as they tried to bring into the barn, or take it out... they used a standard six foot rope, but kept the horse's head as tight as they could. They thought they needed to do this because the horse continually fought the restriction and threw it's head around... and the tighter they kept it, the more it fought. 
                               
                              When we started to care for it, we gave it the entire length of the rope, and on the first day it carried on as usual, but no matter how much it moved it never ran out of rope... but it was so used to the struggle it didn't realise things had changed. Second day, it found that it was virtually free, so the head movements were greatly reduced. By the end of the first week, it walked sweetly beside us. Indeed my OH watched me brining it in and said "You know, that little horse was almost wrapping itself round you trying to please you."
                               
                              By the end of the second week, it walked as nicely as our horses, with the lead rope so slack that it nearly dragged along the ground. However, on the lady's return, they immediately went back to their old ways, giving the horse a mere twelve inches or so of rope and within a couple of days they were fighting again. I think the bottom line was that basically they were a little afraid of the horse and felt that it had to be kept under strict control... they didn't, or couldn't, see that their actions were turning the horse into the very animal they feared. 
                               
                               
                              Over the years, I've met a lot of riders who claim their horses continually pull on the bit.. which at first sight seemed to be right. However, take them off their own horse, and put them on one of ours that are ridden in bitless bridles, and they wobble like jellies. The reason... their seats are so un secure that they actually use the reins as a method of support and to keep them in place in the saddle. Of course with their own horses they have trained the horse to believe that he needs to pull downwards once the bit is in his mouth... He has to pull to counteract the pull from his rider, who then goes on to believe that they need stronger bits to overcome their horse's tendency to pull when ridden. Not an easy answer to that one, except to nicely tell the rider that they need to work on their seat, and that they are in essence causing the problem. People always want the horse to be at fault, rather than themselves...
                               
                               
                              Regards.
                               
                              Colin.
                               
                              UK.
                               
                               
                               

                            • Pam Stephenson
                              So what would you do with my mare? Let me start with I have two. One is a low in the herd mare. If she test it is only brief and then she does what you ask--I
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 5, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                So what would you do with my mare?  Let me start with I have two. One is a low in the herd mare. If she test it is only brief and then she does what you ask--I mean this gal is Easy and Loves the kids she is fifteen years old. The other Dixie who is 13 years old is a Very confident Mare. ..Very. ... She is NOT mean but she will quickly look to be in charge. She had one previous owner. Was owned by a professional trainer who used natural horsemanship methods. Family divorced and horses were put out to pasture for two years. Neighbors (old in laws) would cut the fence and turn them loose, hit them with soup cans and rocks. I bought her in April and she went straight to a trainer for 60 days of tune up. She did have some issues but she worked through them and no longer is fearful or running away from people. My trainer uses the same methods her former owner used. 
                                Lots of ground work and encouragement.  She LOVES LOVES to ground work. Gets absolutely excited when she sees the whip (which in only used as a tool to point to get her to change directions and speeds) She will work off line or on line. If off line she stays --even in an open pasture ---about 30 feet away in her circle and is very focused on what she is being asked to do.
                                But she test and test....for example if you want to fly spray her...have to work her first. I can lead her and she will stay at my shoulder after she has been elbowed at least once. I can catch her (sometimes though she has to be moved first so it is not like I can always walk out and just get her) and with pressure she will drop her head...but say when she knows we are changing pastures she sticks her head in the halter and has it at my knees to help me get it on her..so she knows. With my husband she lead him across the road yesterday, she rubs her head all over him and grazes on lead line...all things she tries to do with me but I correct her quickly. She knows she is not allowed to graze on the lead rope or under saddle. She ground ties and stands like a rock under saddle.
                                Right now She has an attitude. I have not been able to ground work her due to the fight in about a month. She is flinging her head if I go to touch her, head is high, stamping her feet with impatience and in general she is oozing arrogance..not in heat....so to work we will go today.
                                 
                                But will I always have to work her to get her to behave? Does the battle of the wills stop? or is this a dance we are always going to have to dance? She is a big girl...15.2 and 1200 pounds- quarter horse...would make an outstanding barrel racer but was used in team penning and roped off of. She is heel touch trained. She has Never offered to kick, or bite or turn her butt on me..she has never bucked with me but she will with my husband, not a bad buck but still a buck... you can feel the attitude she has. Oh and I am a new horse owner.
                                Pam in Alabama


                                From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cob4cob@...
                                Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 11:20 PM
                                To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                                 

                                 
                                 
                                In a message dated 04/10/2011 20:32:11 GMT Daylight Time, ladybugranchnm@... writes:
                                Colin,

                                Great list. While I don't agree with all of them, I found some interesting and spot on with my philosophies. I'm curious about number (6), can you expand on it? I'm curious what you mean.

                                Thanks!
                                Nicole in New Mexico
                                Ladybug Ranch
                                OK, I'll give you a couple of examples...
                                 
                                My OH and I cared for a horse at the farm where we keep two of ours. It belonged to two women who were going on holiday for a couple of weeks. Many times I had seen them wrestling with the horse as they tried to bring into the barn, or take it out... they used a standard six foot rope, but kept the horse's head as tight as they could. They thought they needed to do this because the horse continually fought the restriction and threw it's head around... and the tighter they kept it, the more it fought. 
                                 
                                When we started to care for it, we gave it the entire length of the rope, and on the first day it carried on as usual, but no matter how much it moved it never ran out of rope... but it was so used to the struggle it didn't realise things had changed. Second day, it found that it was virtually free, so the head movements were greatly reduced. By the end of the first week, it walked sweetly beside us. Indeed my OH watched me brining it in and said "You know, that little horse was almost wrapping itself round you trying to please you."
                                 
                                By the end of the second week, it walked as nicely as our horses, with the lead rope so slack that it nearly dragged along the ground. However, on the lady's return, they immediately went back to their old ways, giving the horse a mere twelve inches or so of rope and within a couple of days they were fighting again. I think the bottom line was that basically they were a little afraid of the horse and felt that it had to be kept under strict control... they didn't, or couldn't, see that their actions were turning the horse into the very animal they feared. 
                                 
                                 
                                Over the years, I've met a lot of riders who claim their horses continually pull on the bit.. which at first sight seemed to be right. However, take them off their own horse, and put them on one of ours that are ridden in bitless bridles, and they wobble like jellies. The reason... their seats are so un secure that they actually use the reins as a method of support and to keep them in place in the saddle. Of course with their own horses they have trained the horse to believe that he needs to pull downwards once the bit is in his mouth... He has to pull to counteract the pull from his rider, who then goes on to believe that they need stronger bits to overcome their horse's tendency to pull when ridden. Not an easy answer to that one, except to nicely tell the rider that they need to work on their seat, and that they are in essence causing the problem. People always want the horse to be at fault, rather than themselves...
                                 
                                 
                                Regards.
                                 
                                Colin.
                                 
                                UK.
                                 
                                 
                                 


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                              • Laura Elrod
                                I am a horse owner for just 3 years myself, and I think you have made great progress!! Many others have had a lot more experience than me, but I think time and
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 5, 2011
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                                  I am a horse owner for just 3 years myself, and I think you have made great progress!!

                                  Many others have had a lot more experience than me, but I think time and consistency is the key!

                                  We have an old mare that still doesn’t like me to get on her, (I fell off last year)  but LOVES my daughter and is wonderful to her!

                                  So, I know they have preferences.  Don’t give up!

                                   

                                   

                                  LAURA ELROD
                                   

                                   
                                   


                                  From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Pam Stephenson
                                  Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:33 AM
                                  To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                                   

                                   

                                  So what would you do with my mare?  Let me start with I have two. One is a low in the herd mare. If she test it is only brief and then she does what you ask--I mean this gal is Easy and Loves the kids she is fifteen years old. The other Dixie who is 13 years old is a Very confident Mare. ..Very. ... She is NOT mean but she will quickly look to be in charge. She had one previous owner. Was owned by a professional trainer who used natural horsemanship methods. Family divorced and horses were put out to pasture for two years. Neighbors (old in laws) would cut the fence and turn them loose, hit them with soup cans and rocks. I bought her in April and she went straight to a trainer for 60 days of tune up. She did have some issues but she worked through them and no longer is fearful or running away from people. My trainer uses the same methods her former owner used. 

                                  Lots of ground work and encouragement.  She LOVES LOVES to ground work. Gets absolutely excited when she sees the whip (which in only used as a tool to point to get her to change directions and speeds) She will work off line or on line. If off line she stays --even in an open pasture ---about 30 feet away in her circle and is very focused on what she is being asked to do.

                                  But she test and test....for example if you want to fly spray her...have to work her first. I can lead her and she will stay at my shoulder after she has been elbowed at least once. I can catch her (sometimes though she has to be moved first so it is not like I can always walk out and just get her) and with pressure she will drop her head...but say when she knows we are changing pastures she sticks her head in the halter and has it at my knees to help me get it on her..so she knows. With my husband she lead him across the road yesterday, she rubs her head all over him and grazes on lead line...all things she tries to do with me but I correct her quickly. She knows she is not allowed to graze on the lead rope or under saddle. She ground ties and stands like a rock under saddle.

                                  Right now She has an attitude. I have not been able to ground work her due to the fight in about a month. She is flinging her head if I go to touch her, head is high, stamping her feet with impatience and in general she is oozing arrogance..not in heat....so to work we will go today.

                                   

                                  But will I always have to work her to get her to behave? Does the battle of the wills stop? or is this a dance we are always going to have to dance? She is a big girl...15.2 and 1200 pounds- quarter horse...would make an outstanding barrel racer but was used in team penning and roped off of. She is heel touch trained. She has Never offered to kick, or bite or turn her butt on me..she has never bucked with me but she will with my husband, not a bad buck but still a buck... you can feel the attitude she has. Oh and I am a new horse owner.

                                  Pam in Alabama

                                   


                                  From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of cob4cob@...
                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 11:20 PM
                                  To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  In a message dated 04/10/2011 20:32:11 GMT Daylight Time, ladybugranchnm@... writes:

                                  Colin,

                                  Great list. While I don't agree with all of them, I found some interesting and spot on with my philosophies. I'm curious about number (6), can you expand on it? I'm curious what you mean.

                                  Thanks!
                                  Nicole in New Mexico
                                  Ladybug Ranch

                                  OK, I'll give you a couple of examples...

                                   

                                  My OH and I cared for a horse at the farm where we keep two of ours. It belonged to two women who were going on holiday for a couple of weeks. Many times I had seen them wrestling with the horse as they tried to bring into the barn, or take it out... they used a standard six foot rope, but kept the horse's head as tight as they could. They thought they needed to do this because the horse continually fought the restriction and threw it's head around... and the tighter they kept it, the more it fought. 

                                   

                                  When we started to care for it, we gave it the entire length of the rope, and on the first day it carried on as usual, but no matter how much it moved it never ran out of rope... but it was so used to the struggle it didn't realise things had changed. Second day, it found that it was virtually free, so the head movements were greatly reduced. By the end of the first week, it walked sweetly beside us. Indeed my OH watched me brining it in and said "You know, that little horse was almost wrapping itself round you trying to please you."

                                   

                                  By the end of the second week, it walked as nicely as our horses, with the lead rope so slack that it nearly dragged along the ground. However, on the lady's return, they immediately went back to their old ways, giving the horse a mere twelve inches or so of rope and within a couple of days they were fighting again. I think the bottom line was that basically they were a little afraid of the horse and felt that it had to be kept under strict control... they didn't, or couldn't, see that their actions were turning the horse into the very animal they feared. 

                                   

                                   

                                  Over the years, I've met a lot of riders who claim their horses continually pull on the bit.. which at first sight seemed to be right. However, take them off their own horse, and put them on one of ours that are ridden in bitless bridles, and they wobble like jellies. The reason... their seats are so un secure that they actually use the reins as a method of support and to keep them in place in the saddle. Of course with their own horses they have trained the horse to believe that he needs to pull downwards once the bit is in his mouth... He has to pull to counteract the pull from his rider, who then goes on to believe that they need stronger bits to overcome their horse's tendency to pull when ridden. Not an easy answer to that one, except to nicely tell the rider that they need to work on their seat, and that they are in essence causing the problem. People always want the horse to be at fault, rather than themselves...

                                   

                                   

                                  Regards.

                                   

                                  Colin.

                                   

                                  UK.

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   


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                                • Pam Stephenson
                                  Thank you :) Yeah it is that fear thing too...when younger I rode anything anytime...now I am in my fifties and cant get the fear of riding out of my head. I
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Oct 5, 2011
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                                    Thank you :)
                                    Yeah it is that fear thing too...when younger I rode anything anytime...now I am in my fifties and cant get the fear of riding out of my head. I will get on if someone else is here like my trainer and I love to ride...but just cant bring myself to just go out and do it by myself..not so much.
                                    What do you do to get your confidence up?
                                    Pam


                                    From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laura Elrod
                                    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:03 AM
                                    To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] New CPR

                                     

                                    I am a horse owner for just 3 years myself, and I think you have made great progress!!

                                    Many others have had a lot more experience than me, but I think time and consistency is the key!

                                    We have an old mare that still doesn’t like me to get on her, (I fell off last year)  but LOVES my daughter and is wonderful to her!

                                    So, I know they have preferences.  Don’t give up!

                                    LAURA ELROD
                                     

                                     
                                     

                                    11
                                  • margon (Clearwire)
                                    Colin, I see this so often. I even had a friend who, even though she was barely five feet tall, lead her horses [one was a 16h+ Arab/TB] by the side of the
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Oct 5, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Colin,
                                      I see this so often. I even had a friend who, even though she was barely five feet tall, lead her horses [one was a 16h+ Arab/TB] by the side of the halter with her hand. The lead rope was attached but it served no function. When I would go to get the horse to be saddled and left the lead rope slack, the horse didn't know what to do at first. I had to encourage it to follow me.
                                      Margo

                                      On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:19 PM, <cob4cob@...> wrote:


                                       
                                       
                                      In a message dated 04/10/2011 20:32:11 GMT Daylight Time, ladybugranchnm@... writes:
                                      Colin,

                                      Great list. While I don't agree with all of them, I found some interesting and spot on with my philosophies. I'm curious about number (6), can you expand on it? I'm curious what you mean.

                                      Thanks!
                                      Nicole in New Mexico
                                      Ladybug Ranch
                                      OK, I'll give you a couple of examples...
                                       
                                      My OH and I cared for a horse at the farm where we keep two of ours. It belonged to two women who were going on holiday for a couple of weeks. Many times I had seen them wrestling with the horse as they tried to bring into the barn, or take it out... they used a standard six foot rope, but kept the horse's head as tight as they could. They thought they needed to do this because the horse continually fought the restriction and threw it's head around... and the tighter they kept it, the more it fought. 
                                       
                                      When we started to care for it, we gave it the entire length of the rope, and on the first day it carried on as usual, but no matter how much it moved it never ran out of rope... but it was so used to the struggle it didn't realise things had changed. Second day, it found that it was virtually free, so the head movements were greatly reduced. By the end of the first week, it walked sweetly beside us. Indeed my OH watched me brining it in and said "You know, that little horse was almost wrapping itself round you trying to please you."
                                       
                                      By the end of the second week, it walked as nicely as our horses, with the lead rope so slack that it nearly dragged along the ground. However, on the lady's return, they immediately went back to their old ways, giving the horse a mere twelve inches or so of rope and within a couple of days they were fighting again. I think the bottom line was that basically they were a little afraid of the horse and felt that it had to be kept under strict control... they didn't, or couldn't, see that their actions were turning the horse into the very animal they feared. 
                                       
                                       
                                      Over the years, I've met a lot of riders who claim their horses continually pull on the bit.. which at first sight seemed to be right. However, take them off their own horse, and put them on one of ours that are ridden in bitless bridles, and they wobble like jellies. The reason... their seats are so un secure that they actually use the reins as a method of support and to keep them in place in the saddle. Of course with their own horses they have trained the horse to believe that he needs to pull downwards once the bit is in his mouth... He has to pull to counteract the pull from his rider, who then goes on to believe that they need stronger bits to overcome their horse's tendency to pull when ridden. Not an easy answer to that one, except to nicely tell the rider that they need to work on their seat, and that they are in essence causing the problem. People always want the horse to be at fault, rather than themselves...
                                       
                                       
                                      Regards.
                                       
                                      Colin.
                                       
                                      UK.
                                       
                                       
                                       






                                      --

                                    • Charles
                                      I have to wonder if the walk away when things go wrong isn t meant on a larger scale than letting a horse get away with something at the moment. For
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 6, 2011
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                                        I have to wonder if the “walk away when things go wrong” isn’t meant on a larger scale than letting a horse get away with something at the moment.  For instance, you have a horse that gets injured  and no matter the treatment, it will never recover and will constantly be lame and unrideable, do you continue to throw money at it to fix it or do you find it a new home as a pasture pet (harder and harder to do) or have it put down?  You have a problem, things have gone wrong, and at some point we have to realize it can’t be fixed. 

                                        Similarly, I was married to my first wife.  I did my best to make and keep her happy, or so I thought at the time.  It wasn’t till I went to counseling, after she served me papers, that I realized I didn’t like being married to her.  Till then I was willing to change if she would stay with me.  But one day I realized it wasn’t worth the fight.  Things had gone wrong and it was time to move on.

                                        Staying and fixing the problem or giving up and moving on?  All I really want is the wisdom to know the difference.

                                        Charles

                                         

                                        From: RHONDA LEVINSON [mailto:rhndlev@...]
                                        Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:18 PM
                                        To: HORSES LIST
                                        Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] lists

                                         

                                         

                                        "Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight."  Too true, Colin!  I really disagreed with a few of the things you said.  LOL.  Especially about walking away when things go wrong.  If I stop putting pressure on my horse while he is still giving the wrong answer, then I have REWARDED him for the wrong answer and that just makes things harder the next time.  Also, I really don't care if certain horses like me or don't like me.  I care that they RESPECT me and my space, and sometimes force is necessary to accomplish that.  I am not a horse, it's true, but I am CERTAIN that I cannot hit a horse harder than it will be kicked by another horse.  And I am equally certain that certain behaviors (biting for instance) must be met with force in order to convince the horse that biting is the wrong answer, ALWAYS and in all circumstances with a human. 

                                        Rhonda


                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:

                                        We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                                        comment they want
                                        to learn more about horses.

                                        Well, don't let them down.

                                        What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                                        curious minds
                                        want to know.

                                        Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker

                                        Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....

                                         

                                        (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."

                                         

                                        (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.

                                         

                                        (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.

                                         

                                        (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.

                                         

                                        (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.

                                         

                                        (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.

                                         

                                        (7) Better to be liked than dominate.

                                         

                                        (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.

                                         

                                        (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)

                                         

                                        (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.

                                         

                                        (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.

                                         

                                        (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.

                                         

                                         

                                        Regards,

                                         

                                        Colin.

                                         

                                        UK.

                                         

                                         

                                      • margon (Clearwire)
                                        Charles, You have to weigh the benefits to both you and the horse in order to decide to continue or walk away. In the case of your marriage it sounds like you
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Oct 6, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Charles,
                                           
                                          You have to weigh the benefits to both you and the horse in order to decide to continue or walk away. In the case of your marriage it sounds like you preferred being married to someone you disliked being married to over examining why you were unhappy or maybe even being afraid of change or some failing in yourself.
                                           
                                          With the horse it is the same... ask yourself why you have this particular horse, what were your plans for the horse, would your plans make it a better horse for you or anybody else?  When a horse is not coming around to your way of thinking, is it worth it to you to get more education or advice on how to deal with this horse or is it better to pass this horse on to someone who CAN deal with it and you find yourself a horse that works for you.
                                           
                                          Since most of us are not trainers and can't always change everything about ourselves that needs to be changed to deal with a challenging horse, I have preferred to take the older, seasoned unchallenging horse over the challenging, often younger more spirited, semi-trained horse. It's just not in my personality to repeat lessons and bring a horse along just to be able to get on it and ride down the trail or in a parade.
                                           
                                          That brings us to the injured/ill pasture pet. First you have to be honest about your resources both financially and emotionally. In order to keep at least one riding horse I have had a pasture pet or two [two right now]. The pasture pet doesn't need to be ridden, but has value as a companion to the horse that does. Sure, it takes special feed and supplements or medical attention, but that's money i'm not spending on tack and things that working horses need. 
                                           
                                          Also there are times when I want to take a nice long walk instead of ride, so it's a good opportunity to take the pasture pet on a lead and walk with him and have some quality time. It's very relaxing to be with, in my case, older horses that like to just "be" and would rather be with someone than alone because they feel vulnerable when they are alone, being infirm or old. Sometimes I'm getting over a migraine and one of these walks always make me feel better. If I feel I might pass out, I can lean on the horse and KNOW it will stand until I'm ready to move on.
                                           
                                          If you can't fit horses like this in your life, then find someone who can. I know plenty of ol' ladies like myself who never intend to show or compete or do major riding and thoroughly enjoy the companionship of horses that can't do those things either. And if it is a horse you've had a long time, there is a non verbal communication going on because you know each other so well... and isn't that what we are seeking with our horses?... that bond?
                                           
                                          Margo
                                           


                                          On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Charles <charles@...> wrote:


                                          I have to wonder if the “walk away when things go wrong” isn’t meant on a larger scale than letting a horse get away with something at the moment.  For instance, you have a horse that gets injured  and no matter the treatment, it will never recover and will constantly be lame and unrideable, do you continue to throw money at it to fix it or do you find it a new home as a pasture pet (harder and harder to do) or have it put down?  You have a problem, things have gone wrong, and at some point we have to realize it can’t be fixed. 

                                          Similarly, I was married to my first wife.  I did my best to make and keep her happy, or so I thought at the time.  It wasn’t till I went to counseling, after she served me papers, that I realized I didn’t like being married to her.  Till then I was willing to change if she would stay with me.  But one day I realized it wasn’t worth the fight.  Things had gone wrong and it was time to move on.

                                          Staying and fixing the problem or giving up and moving on?  All I really want is the wisdom to know the difference.

                                          Charles

                                           

                                          From: RHONDA LEVINSON [mailto:rhndlev@...]
                                          Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:18 PM
                                          To: HORSES LIST
                                          Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] lists

                                           

                                           

                                          "Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight."  Too true, Colin!  I really disagreed with a few of the things you said.  LOL.  Especially about walking away when things go wrong.  If I stop putting pressure on my horse while he is still giving the wrong answer, then I have REWARDED him for the wrong answer and that just makes things harder the next time.  Also, I really don't care if certain horses like me or don't like me.  I care that they RESPECT me and my space, and sometimes force is necessary to accomplish that.  I am not a horse, it's true, but I am CERTAIN that I cannot hit a horse harder than it will be kicked by another horse.  And I am equally certain that certain behaviors (biting for instance) must be met with force in order to convince the horse that biting is the wrong answer, ALWAYS and in all circumstances with a human. 

                                          Rhonda


                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:

                                          We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                                          comment they want
                                          to learn more about horses.

                                          Well, don't let them down.

                                          What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                                          curious minds
                                          want to know.

                                          Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker

                                          Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....

                                           

                                          (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."

                                           

                                          (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.

                                           

                                          (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.

                                           

                                          (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.

                                           

                                          (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.

                                           

                                          (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.

                                           

                                          (7) Better to be liked than dominate.

                                           

                                          (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.

                                           

                                          (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)

                                           

                                          (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.

                                           

                                          (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.

                                           

                                          (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.

                                           

                                           

                                          Regards,

                                           

                                          Colin.

                                           

                                          UK.

                                           

                                           






                                          --

                                        • Charles
                                          So, Do I stay or should I go now? is a legit question. Too often, it s a question that people don t ask themselves. There is a certain element of I m not
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Oct 7, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment

                                            So, “Do I stay or should I go now?” is a legit question.  Too often, it’s a question that people don’t ask themselves.  There is a certain element of “I’m not a quitter” that drives people to continue with things they should give up.  It leads us to stay in marriages too long, keep horses we can’t help, and stay in jobs or businesses we should close or give up. 

                                            It’s not failure to change your mind and decide you don’t want to do it anymore.

                                            Charles

                                             

                                            From: margon (Clearwire) [mailto:margon@...]
                                            Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:21 AM
                                            To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] lists

                                             

                                             

                                            Charles,

                                             

                                            You have to weigh the benefits to both you and the horse in order to decide to continue or walk away. In the case of your marriage it sounds like you preferred being married to someone you disliked being married to over examining why you were unhappy or maybe even being afraid of change or some failing in yourself.

                                             

                                            With the horse it is the same... ask yourself why you have this particular horse, what were your plans for the horse, would your plans make it a better horse for you or anybody else?  When a horse is not coming around to your way of thinking, is it worth it to you to get more education or advice on how to deal with this horse or is it better to pass this horse on to someone who CAN deal with it and you find yourself a horse that works for you.

                                             

                                            Since most of us are not trainers and can't always change everything about ourselves that needs to be changed to deal with a challenging horse, I have preferred to take the older, seasoned unchallenging horse over the challenging, often younger more spirited, semi-trained horse. It's just not in my personality to repeat lessons and bring a horse along just to be able to get on it and ride down the trail or in a parade.

                                             

                                            That brings us to the injured/ill pasture pet. First you have to be honest about your resources both financially and emotionally. In order to keep at least one riding horse I have had a pasture pet or two [two right now]. The pasture pet doesn't need to be ridden, but has value as a companion to the horse that does. Sure, it takes special feed and supplements or medical attention, but that's money i'm not spending on tack and things that working horses need. 

                                             

                                            Also there are times when I want to take a nice long walk instead of ride, so it's a good opportunity to take the pasture pet on a lead and walk with him and have some quality time. It's very relaxing to be with, in my case, older horses that like to just "be" and would rather be with someone than alone because they feel vulnerable when they are alone, being infirm or old. Sometimes I'm getting over a migraine and one of these walks always make me feel better. If I feel I might pass out, I can lean on the horse and KNOW it will stand until I'm ready to move on.

                                             

                                            If you can't fit horses like this in your life, then find someone who can. I know plenty of ol' ladies like myself who never intend to show or compete or do major riding and thoroughly enjoy the companionship of horses that can't do those things either. And if it is a horse you've had a long time, there is a non verbal communication going on because you know each other so well... and isn't that what we are seeking with our horses?... that bond?

                                             

                                            Margo

                                             

                                             

                                            On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Charles <charles@...> wrote:

                                             

                                            I have to wonder if the “walk away when things go wrong” isn’t meant on a larger scale than letting a horse get away with something at the moment.  For instance, you have a horse that gets injured  and no matter the treatment, it will never recover and will constantly be lame and unrideable, do you continue to throw money at it to fix it or do you find it a new home as a pasture pet (harder and harder to do) or have it put down?  You have a problem, things have gone wrong, and at some point we have to realize it can’t be fixed. 

                                            Similarly, I was married to my first wife.  I did my best to make and keep her happy, or so I thought at the time.  It wasn’t till I went to counseling, after she served me papers, that I realized I didn’t like being married to her.  Till then I was willing to change if she would stay with me.  But one day I realized it wasn’t worth the fight.  Things had gone wrong and it was time to move on.

                                            Staying and fixing the problem or giving up and moving on?  All I really want is the wisdom to know the difference.

                                            Charles

                                             

                                            From: RHONDA LEVINSON [mailto:rhndlev@...]
                                            Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:18 PM
                                            To: HORSES LIST
                                            Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] lists

                                             

                                             

                                            "Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight."  Too true, Colin!  I really disagreed with a few of the things you said.  LOL.  Especially about walking away when things go wrong.  If I stop putting pressure on my horse while he is still giving the wrong answer, then I have REWARDED him for the wrong answer and that just makes things harder the next time.  Also, I really don't care if certain horses like me or don't like me.  I care that they RESPECT me and my space, and sometimes force is necessary to accomplish that.  I am not a horse, it's true, but I am CERTAIN that I cannot hit a horse harder than it will be kicked by another horse.  And I am equally certain that certain behaviors (biting for instance) must be met with force in order to convince the horse that biting is the wrong answer, ALWAYS and in all circumstances with a human. 

                                            Rhonda


                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:

                                            We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                                            comment they want
                                            to learn more about horses.

                                            Well, don't let them down.

                                            What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                                            curious minds
                                            want to know.

                                            Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker

                                            Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....

                                             

                                            (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."

                                             

                                            (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.

                                             

                                            (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.

                                             

                                            (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.

                                             

                                            (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.

                                             

                                            (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.

                                             

                                            (7) Better to be liked than dominate.

                                             

                                            (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.

                                             

                                            (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)

                                             

                                            (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.

                                             

                                            (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.

                                             

                                            (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.

                                             

                                             

                                            Regards,

                                             

                                            Colin.

                                             

                                            UK.

                                             

                                             

                                             




                                            --

                                             

                                          • margon (Clearwire)
                                            Very true... ... -- http://www.nielsenhaus.webs.com http://anim8pics.jigsy.com/ http://www.cafepress.com/unicorngardens.73388499 Very true...     On Fri, Oct
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Oct 7, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Very true...

                                               

                                               


                                              On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Charles <charles@...> wrote:


                                              So, “Do I stay or should I go now?” is a legit question.  Too often, it’s a question that people don’t ask themselves.  There is a certain element of “I’m not a quitter” that drives people to continue with things they should give up.  It leads us to stay in marriages too long, keep horses we can’t help, and stay in jobs or businesses we should close or give up. 

                                              It’s not failure to change your mind and decide you don’t want to do it anymore.

                                              Charles

                                               

                                              From: margon (Clearwire) [mailto:margon@...]
                                              Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:21 AM
                                              To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] lists

                                               

                                               

                                              Charles,

                                               

                                              You have to weigh the benefits to both you and the horse in order to decide to continue or walk away. In the case of your marriage it sounds like you preferred being married to someone you disliked being married to over examining why you were unhappy or maybe even being afraid of change or some failing in yourself.

                                               

                                              With the horse it is the same... ask yourself why you have this particular horse, what were your plans for the horse, would your plans make it a better horse for you or anybody else?  When a horse is not coming around to your way of thinking, is it worth it to you to get more education or advice on how to deal with this horse or is it better to pass this horse on to someone who CAN deal with it and you find yourself a horse that works for you.

                                               

                                              Since most of us are not trainers and can't always change everything about ourselves that needs to be changed to deal with a challenging horse, I have preferred to take the older, seasoned unchallenging horse over the challenging, often younger more spirited, semi-trained horse. It's just not in my personality to repeat lessons and bring a horse along just to be able to get on it and ride down the trail or in a parade.

                                               

                                              That brings us to the injured/ill pasture pet. First you have to be honest about your resources both financially and emotionally. In order to keep at least one riding horse I have had a pasture pet or two [two right now]. The pasture pet doesn't need to be ridden, but has value as a companion to the horse that does. Sure, it takes special feed and supplements or medical attention, but that's money i'm not spending on tack and things that working horses need. 

                                               

                                              Also there are times when I want to take a nice long walk instead of ride, so it's a good opportunity to take the pasture pet on a lead and walk with him and have some quality time. It's very relaxing to be with, in my case, older horses that like to just "be" and would rather be with someone than alone because they feel vulnerable when they are alone, being infirm or old. Sometimes I'm getting over a migraine and one of these walks always make me feel better. If I feel I might pass out, I can lean on the horse and KNOW it will stand until I'm ready to move on.

                                               

                                              If you can't fit horses like this in your life, then find someone who can. I know plenty of ol' ladies like myself who never intend to show or compete or do major riding and thoroughly enjoy the companionship of horses that can't do those things either. And if it is a horse you've had a long time, there is a non verbal communication going on because you know each other so well... and isn't that what we are seeking with our horses?... that bond?

                                               

                                              Margo

                                               

                                               

                                              On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Charles <charles@...> wrote:

                                               

                                              I have to wonder if the “walk away when things go wrong” isn’t meant on a larger scale than letting a horse get away with something at the moment.  For instance, you have a horse that gets injured  and no matter the treatment, it will never recover and will constantly be lame and unrideable, do you continue to throw money at it to fix it or do you find it a new home as a pasture pet (harder and harder to do) or have it put down?  You have a problem, things have gone wrong, and at some point we have to realize it can’t be fixed. 

                                              Similarly, I was married to my first wife.  I did my best to make and keep her happy, or so I thought at the time.  It wasn’t till I went to counseling, after she served me papers, that I realized I didn’t like being married to her.  Till then I was willing to change if she would stay with me.  But one day I realized it wasn’t worth the fight.  Things had gone wrong and it was time to move on.

                                              Staying and fixing the problem or giving up and moving on?  All I really want is the wisdom to know the difference.

                                              Charles

                                               

                                              From: RHONDA LEVINSON [mailto:rhndlev@...]
                                              Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:18 PM
                                              To: HORSES LIST
                                              Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] lists

                                               

                                               

                                              "Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight."  Too true, Colin!  I really disagreed with a few of the things you said.  LOL.  Especially about walking away when things go wrong.  If I stop putting pressure on my horse while he is still giving the wrong answer, then I have REWARDED him for the wrong answer and that just makes things harder the next time.  Also, I really don't care if certain horses like me or don't like me.  I care that they RESPECT me and my space, and sometimes force is necessary to accomplish that.  I am not a horse, it's true, but I am CERTAIN that I cannot hit a horse harder than it will be kicked by another horse.  And I am equally certain that certain behaviors (biting for instance) must be met with force in order to convince the horse that biting is the wrong answer, ALWAYS and in all circumstances with a human. 

                                              Rhonda


                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              In a message dated 04/10/2011 18:00:11 GMT Daylight Time, Marv@... writes:

                                              We have a number of folks join the list lately who have made the
                                              comment they want
                                              to learn more about horses.

                                              Well, don't let them down.

                                              What is the number one thing you have learned about horses? I'm sure
                                              curious minds
                                              want to know.

                                              Marv "America needs a Cain." Walker

                                              Hmm, so many things over the years, if I list some I'm sure I'll think of other, better ones, after I've pressed the send button....

                                               

                                              (1) You're not a horse, so don't justify force and violence by trotting out the lame excuse "Well horses do it to each other  in the wild."

                                               

                                              (2) Spend time with your horse, not teaching or learning, just quality time together.

                                               

                                              (3) True strength is gentility... True gentility is strength.

                                               

                                              (4) Don't 'micro-manage'.

                                               

                                              (5) I never give anything 100% of my attention, so why should I expect it from my horse.

                                               

                                              (6) A horse can't pull if it has nothing to pull against.

                                               

                                              (7) Better to be liked than dominate.

                                               

                                              (8) When training give the horse breaks to think things through.

                                               

                                              (9) If things go wrong, walk away and come back in five minutes. (herds can't survive with grudges and petty annoyances, so walking away and then returning make perfect sense to a horse)

                                               

                                              (10) Always work with the horse that's in front of you... not what people have said about him.

                                               

                                              (11) Never say "Horses never" or "Horses always" cause the very next horse you work with will prove you wrong.

                                               

                                              (12) Never send lists of horsey tips to Internet discussion groups... You'll just start a fight.

                                               

                                               

                                              Regards,

                                               

                                              Colin.

                                               

                                              UK.

                                               

                                               

                                               




                                              --






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