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Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Science: Evolution and creationism

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  • Anthony Sessions
    Thats hogwash!  Any time this debate comes up the evolutionists drag all kinds of stuff into it but the moment that the creationist pulls up anything other
    Message 1 of 135 , Jun 1, 2009
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      Thats hogwash!  Any time this debate comes up the evolutionists drag all kinds of stuff into it but the moment that the creationist pulls up anything other than the Bible then it's because we only have faith and no evidence.  If you take a few minutes and read those websites that I posted you will find that what they really do is take the so called science of evolution and turn it on it's head.  You don't need the Bible to disprove it.  Because evolution is not good science as the very first link shows evolution is still a THEORY after all these years no scientist has been able to prove it and therefore make it a scientific law!  All good science of this scope has been reduced to numbers.  There is a mathematical formula to support it, not so with evolution.
      Even if you support the evolution theory then you still have to take it to its basest determination of where and when did life start.  That is exactly why science has not "proven" the theory.  There is no explanation for where that so called first bacteria, protzoa or whatever terminology you want to use came from.  All life regardless of which explanation you subscribe to has a beginning point.  This debate can go on and on until we all run out of internet space to put it on. 
      God created the earth in 6 days and on the 7th he rested and there is enough theological evidence to prove that a day was 24 hours.
      Day 1 He created Light
      Day 2 He created the Atmosphere
      DAy 3 He gathered the ocean and created seed bearing plants
      Day 4 He created the Sun and the Moon
      Day 5 He created fish and birds
      Day 6 He created animals, all wildlife, reptiles and MAN
      Day 7 He rested,
      Even Albert Einstien on his death bed after a life time of study made the statement that "behind this universe there is a supreme being that I can only call God"
      While you are at it explain to me where in the evolutionary chain that somehow we were given a conscience what caused that?  If you deal with the science then there is no logical explanation of why this mass of genetic material needed a conscience to survive.  We did not need a well developed sense of right and wrong in order to survive.
      Now that I have stuck my foot into this I am going to back out gracefully.  I don't have a scientific background and I suspect that the person who posted this ridicoulus accusation doesn't either. 
      I have come this far with this discussion ONLY because my friend Charles is in the midst of it and I am trying to provide him with some reading material that will make him think.  What was posted below is an attempt to call those of us who subscribe to a theological point of view, stupid and narrowminded and I resent that!  At the same time the poster wants to make sure we remain "narrow" in our approach by demanding that the only thing we look at when discussing this is the Bible, again I say HOGWASH!
      Wake up this morning and go for a walk and observe the beauty of what GOD created!  I did.

      From: Jones <jdjones@...>
      To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups..com
      Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 12:52:10 AM
      Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Science: Evolution and creationism


      A couple of points that are not my own observations, but they fit this thread:
      - In any "debate" about religion, there are always factions who believe that their holy book is a perfect message from their deity, but they have to keep citing outside sources to support their perspective, suggesting that they do not actually have faith in the completeness or accuracy of their holy book.  Additionally, they seem not to have studied it to the extent that they can defend its perfection without resorting to third party materials.
      - Ultimately, the people on that side of the debate have to resort to the statement that:
          a.  Their faith supports everything they have said.
          b.  Their holy book supports everything they have said.
      Many Christians who are also real scientists (not the kind of fake scientists who set up the "Creation Museum") see no conflict between the religious belief that God created everything, and the vast body of science that encompasses evolution.  In fact, such scientists feel that their fellow Christians who denounce evolution are, in fact, attempting to limit God because of their own inability or unwillingness to study.
    • Charles
      Actually it s worse than that. The KJV bible scholars relied on a translation by Erasmus. Erasmus had translated from the original Greek texts he could get
      Message 135 of 135 , Jun 3, 2009
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        Actually it’s worse than that.  The KJV bible scholars relied on a translation by Erasmus.  Erasmus had translated from the original Greek texts he could get (Remember, the earliest bibles are only from 300AD or so on, before that we have nothing).  The Greek texts didn’t  have a certain story.  The Roman Catholic Church had a problem with his translation.  Erasmus told them if they could show it to him in Greek he would put it in.  They translated the story into the appropriate age Greek.  They showed the Greek translation to Erasmus.  He then included it in his translation.

        KJV went back to Erasmus’ version when they were developing their “translation”.

        This is in “Misquoting Jesus” by Prof Bart Ehrman.



        From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jones
        Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:08 PM
        To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] Suffering witches to live


        If someone is game to run back through Gordon's posts, he has written a couple of times about the deliberate mis-translations that King James directed, using the word "witch" as an example.  At the moment, I can't recall what the exact word was, but it was not "witch."  King J. was a man with an agenda.


        You've probably met witches (as in, followers of the peaceful nature-friendly religion that doesn't acknowledge a "devil," much less worship one), but they tend to be average persons who stay a bit quiet due to not wanting to have crosses burned in their yards, drive-by shootings, etc.





        ----- Original Message -----

        From: Charles

        Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:28 PM

        Subject: [MarvWalkerHorses] Suffering witches to live


        I will give CS Lewis on this one point.  He pointed out that we haven’t changed in not trusting witches (never met one).  The difference between the middle ages when they stoned them and now, is that we no longer believe in them as evil malignant forces.

        Personally I like the one about not eating rabbits because they chew the cud and don’t have cloven hooves.  (they don’t chew the cud).


        From: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RHONDA LEVINSON
        Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:56 AM
        To: HORSES LIST
        Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] mere Christianity - bible quotes supporting evolution

        You're right it was six days and he rested on the seventh.  I just kind of lump it together in my brain.  'Cause there's only so much space in there.  :-)
        I guess I just disagree that even when divinely inspired, the human brain is necessarily capable of understanding and articulating the might of God.  So what Moses preceived as what God's "day" was is not necessarily what God's day was.  Does that make sense?
        For what it's worth, however, I do not take every word of the Bible literally nor have I ever met anyone who does.  I have met MANY people who claim they do, but NONE who ever really do.  For instance, the passage about how thou shalt not suffer a witch to live, how many of you who say you take the Bible literally actually follow that?  Then there's the whole part about removing the log from your own eye before worrying about the mote in your neighbor's eye that most fundamentalists I know COMPLETELY ignore. 



        To: MarvWalkerHorses@yahoogroups.com
        From: newcombcj50@...
        Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 06:46:39 -0700
        Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] mere Christianity - bible quotes supporting evolution

        Except that Hebrew language is very specific and if you believe that a day is still a day as in the Old Testament, then the day spoken of by Moses through Holy Spirit inspiration is a literal 24 hour day.

        And, p.s. - God created the world in 6 days - not seven, : )

        The thing for me has always been either you believe in the Bible as the inspired Word of God or you don't.  If you don't then the conversation about religion/creation will always be a stalemate.

        And like I said in a previous post - I only know how I was changed because God regenerated me. One day I was not a believer and not open to His Word and another day I was.  It was definitely a light bulb type experience.


        --- On Tue, 6/2/09, RHONDA LEVINSON <rhndlev@...> wrote:

        From: RHONDA LEVINSON <rhndlev@...>
        Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] mere Christianity - bible quotes supporting evolution
        To: "HORSES LIST" <marvwalkerhorses@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 2:55 PM

        No, my point, Beth, was that *I* didn't think we should put limits on God by saying what his day consists of.  I think that creationism and evolution can be considered consistent with each other, because who is to say what God's day is.  Evolution can be correct that it took eons for the world as we know it be created, and it can still be correct that God created the world in seven days (seven of GOD'S days, whatever those are). 
        Tony was saying that the earth was created in seven days and a day was literally 24 hours.  I said that was it was arrogant to presume to know what a day is to God, and Tony said that for all of known history a day has been 24 hours.  So my point was that yes, for KNOWN history, it's been 24 hours, but who knows what it was before that?  Only God, and I don't presume to dictate to God what his day should be like. 



        To: MarvWalkerHorses@ yahoogroups. com
        From: savvy_gurl@sbcgloba l.net
        Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 07:39:51 -0700
        Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] mere Christianity - bible quotes supporting evolution

        But you are putting limits on God. He is omnipotent, He is the creator.  You cannot limit his power or ability.  He can and does do things we cannot even imagine.  People try so hard to put human limits on our Creator and it just cannot be done!!

        Beth in Kansas

        "The air of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears."
        An Arabian proverb

        --- On Mon, 6/1/09, RHONDA LEVINSON <rhndlev@msn. com> wrote:

        From: RHONDA LEVINSON <rhndlev@msn. com>
        Subject: RE: [MarvWalkerHorses] mere Christianity - bible quotes supporting evolution
        To: "HORSES LIST" <marvwalkerhorses@ yahoogroups. com>
        Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 11:43 AM

        For all of KNOWN history.  You don't know and I don't know what God's day or night was like before we existed.  I just don't presume to know, anyway. 



        To: MarvWalkerHorses@ yahoogroups. com
        From: stoney110@yahoo. com
        Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:40:06 -0700
        Subject: Re: [MarvWalkerHorses] mere Christianity - bible quotes supporting evolution

        Nope not arrogance just the ability to read what it says.  He called the light day and the dark night, for all of known history the earth has rotated on it's axis and there has been 24 hours in a day sometimes more light than dark and sometimes more dark than light depending of the seasons.

        Can anyone explain how the Moon governs the tides?

        TonyWeb Bug from http://geo..yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=18923737/grpspId=1705082947/msgId=38316/stime=1243873721/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3

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