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Now I'm really depressed (:>)

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  • Marcia E Ring
    I had a conversation not too long ago with a colleague (not at UVM) who recently was granted tenure. Part of what was shared with me is that while you are on
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 1, 2007
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      I had a conversation not too long ago with a colleague (not at UVM)
      who recently was granted tenure. Part of what was shared with me is
      that while you are on the tenure track, you have to make sure you
      don't do anything to get your fellow faculty members angry with you
      because you want their votes for tenure.

      Bear, your post reminded me of this conversation. I've pretty much
      decided not to go tenure track in part because I'm 51 and have only
      been teaching for 4 years now. While I have research interests, and
      certainly multiple scholarly interests, I don't see myself as the
      aggressive grant receiving type. (Now I realize there are biases
      contained within that statement but I am honest if nothing else. Or
      perhaps transparent is a better descriptor.) I do not see myself as
      gearing up over the next batch of years, which, in part, is what
      generated my first post that led to this conversation. I see myself as
      working as hard, mostly at teaching, and as much as I am now, but not
      MORE. Then, hopefully, maybe, there might be a time of gearing down?
      But you get my drift.

      Two qualities of my personality are that I am flexible and responsive
      to the needs I see presented around me, whether by my family, clients
      or by my colleagues or by my department. This has resulted in my being
      willing to change my schedule to meet needs that cannot otherwise be
      met. As a result, the only course I have taught more than once is
      clinical. Do you know how hard it is to write new lectures every
      single semester? Okay, well not every semester but most semesters. I
      would love to find my niche. Currently, I am nicheless. Plus, my
      interests are so varied...and I haven't landed on one thing to focus
      on, so I do tons of things. Ugh. Maybe these qualities are part of my
      problem.

      So Bear, given the above, I bristled when I read the conclusion of
      your post. While you strike some honest chords, it also felt very
      cynical to me.

      I need to focus and not rant.

      Fran, it was so good to read your post with your accent (in my mind).
      I've missed you.

      Marcia
      --
      Marcia E. Ring, PhD, APRN-BC
      Clinical Specialist Psychiatry/Mental Health
      Clinical Assistant Professor
      College of Nursing and Health Sciences
      Department of Nursing
      University of Vermont
      221 Rowell
      106 Carrigan Drive
      Burlington, Vermont 05405-0068
      Tel: (802) 656-9013
      Fax: (802) 656-8306
    • Thomas Cox PhD, RN
      Marcia, Apologies in advance for my stereotyped characterization of institutions below... Remember, there are lots of different types of nursing schools. The
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 1, 2007
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        Marcia,

        Apologies in advance for my stereotyped characterization of institutions below...

        Remember, there are lots of different types of nursing schools. The top tier tend to be research focused and if teaching and an active social/family life is what you really want such schools tend to be poor choices. The rewards in those settings tend to be allocated on the basis of success in grantspersonship. The more money you bring in the less teaching you do, the bigger your office, and the more money you get to use to enhance your work. The more assistance you get, the more grants you are expected to bring in... Sometimes people 'wake up' after 20 years and feel like they have been a lab rat on a treadmill and have lost sight of who they are and what they want - but a lot of other people feel great and never doubt their decisions and paths...

        Down/up (whatever direction is comfortable for the reader) the tree you see four year academically oriented institutions where grantspersonship success is less critical - doing presentations and publishing a bit will be well received but the teaching is the focal point of your progress to tenure and promotion.

        Further on the tree are the community colleges where presentations and promotions are far less critical and good teaching evaluations are the most critical factors in tenure and promotion.

        Hospital based nursing programs are even more focused on teaching and less on publishing or presenting.

        So the critical thing is to think about who you are, what you want, what you are willing to offer, and seeking a good match rather than trying to remake an institution to fit you or vice versa. Some people can't help publishing and presenting and they are going to do that no matter where they are. But a lot of people hate that and certainly do not want to have it be an important part of their professional success.

        As far as the political aspect of tenure - there is some validity to the idea of avoiding clashes with peers. But if you have correctly assessed the institution, your colleagues, and yourself, during you interviews and the trial periods leading to tenure, 90% of the 'friction' issues will never occur because you are where you opught to be. If you are a square peg in a round institution you are probably going to be out of synch with your colleagues more often than if you are a round peg in a round institution or a square peg in a square institution.

        It is sobering to recall that the pre-eminent (well at least in this Bear's eyes) intellectual of the 20th century - Bertrand Russell - was removed from his position teaching Symbolic Logic - the field he revolutionized with his and Whitehead's Principia Mathematica - by CCNY in 1940 because of his religious views. The powers that be felt he would be as bad an influence on his students as Socrates was - though at least they didn't ask him to imbibe any hemlock tea... So even being the smartest person in the world, the most adept in your discipline, and the most recognized expert in the world on what you are teaching is no guarantee of safe passage through the halls of academia...

        Some people's cynicism is other people's optimism... :-)

        bear



        Marcia E Ring <Marcia.Ring@...> wrote: I had a conversation not too long ago with a colleague (not at UVM)
        who recently was granted tenure. Part of what was shared with me is
        that while you are on the tenure track, you have to make sure you
        don't do anything to get your fellow faculty members angry with you
        because you want their votes for tenure.

        Bear, your post reminded me of this conversation. I've pretty much
        decided not to go tenure track in part because I'm 51 and have only
        been teaching for 4 years now. While I have research interests, and
        certainly multiple scholarly interests, I don't see myself as the
        aggressive grant receiving type. (Now I realize there are biases
        contained within that statement but I am honest if nothing else. Or
        perhaps transparent is a better descriptor.) I do not see myself as
        gearing up over the next batch of years, which, in part, is what
        generated my first post that led to this conversation. I see myself as
        working as hard, mostly at teaching, and as much as I am now, but not
        MORE. Then, hopefully, maybe, there might be a time of gearing down?
        But you get my drift.

        Two qualities of my personality are that I am flexible and responsive
        to the needs I see presented around me, whether by my family, clients
        or by my colleagues or by my department. This has resulted in my being
        willing to change my schedule to meet needs that cannot otherwise be
        met. As a result, the only course I have taught more than once is
        clinical. Do you know how hard it is to write new lectures every
        single semester? Okay, well not every semester but most semesters. I
        would love to find my niche. Currently, I am nicheless. Plus, my
        interests are so varied...and I haven't landed on one thing to focus
        on, so I do tons of things. Ugh. Maybe these qualities are part of my
        problem.

        So Bear, given the above, I bristled when I read the conclusion of
        your post. While you strike some honest chords, it also felt very
        cynical to me.

        I need to focus and not rant.

        Fran, it was so good to read your post with your accent (in my mind).
        I've missed you.

        Marcia
        --
        Marcia E. Ring, PhD, APRN-BC
        Clinical Specialist Psychiatry/Mental Health
        Clinical Assistant Professor
        College of Nursing and Health Sciences
        Department of Nursing
        University of Vermont
        221 Rowell
        106 Carrigan Drive
        Burlington, Vermont 05405-0068
        Tel: (802) 656-9013
        Fax: (802) 656-8306






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Vidette Todaro-Franceschi
        Well said Bear. Thanks for the tidbit on B. Russell; didn t know that, but it is so NOT surprising. Vidette ... Peace, Love & Light, Vidette
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 1, 2007
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          Well said Bear. Thanks for the tidbit on B. Russell; didn't know
          that, but it is so NOT surprising.

          Vidette
          At 02:48 PM 2/1/2007, you wrote:

          >Marcia,
          >
          >Apologies in advance for my stereotyped characterization of
          >institutions below...
          >
          >Remember, there are lots of different types of nursing schools. The
          >top tier tend to be research focused and if teaching and an active
          >social/family life is what you really want such schools tend to be
          >poor choices. The rewards in those settings tend to be allocated on
          >the basis of success in grantspersonship. The more money you bring
          >in the less teaching you do, the bigger your office, and the more
          >money you get to use to enhance your work. The more assistance you
          >get, the more grants you are expected to bring in... Sometimes
          >people 'wake up' after 20 years and feel like they have been a lab
          >rat on a treadmill and have lost sight of who they are and what they
          >want - but a lot of other people feel great and never doubt their
          >decisions and paths...
          >
          >Down/up (whatever direction is comfortable for the reader) the tree
          >you see four year academically oriented institutions where
          >grantspersonship success is less critical - doing presentations and
          >publishing a bit will be well received but the teaching is the focal
          >point of your progress to tenure and promotion.
          >
          >Further on the tree are the community colleges where presentations
          >and promotions are far less critical and good teaching evaluations
          >are the most critical factors in tenure and promotion.
          >
          >Hospital based nursing programs are even more focused on teaching
          >and less on publishing or presenting.
          >
          >So the critical thing is to think about who you are, what you want,
          >what you are willing to offer, and seeking a good match rather than
          >trying to remake an institution to fit you or vice versa. Some
          >people can't help publishing and presenting and they are going to do
          >that no matter where they are. But a lot of people hate that and
          >certainly do not want to have it be an important part of their
          >professional success.
          >
          >As far as the political aspect of tenure - there is some validity to
          >the idea of avoiding clashes with peers. But if you have correctly
          >assessed the institution, your colleagues, and yourself, during you
          >interviews and the trial periods leading to tenure, 90% of the
          >'friction' issues will never occur because you are where you opught
          >to be. If you are a square peg in a round institution you are
          >probably going to be out of synch with your colleagues more often
          >than if you are a round peg in a round institution or a square peg
          >in a square institution.
          >
          >It is sobering to recall that the pre-eminent (well at least in this
          >Bear's eyes) intellectual of the 20th century - Bertrand Russell -
          >was removed from his position teaching Symbolic Logic - the field he
          >revolutionized with his and Whitehead's Principia Mathematica - by
          >CCNY in 1940 because of his religious views. The powers that be felt
          >he would be as bad an influence on his students as Socrates was -
          >though at least they didn't ask him to imbibe any hemlock tea... So
          >even being the smartest person in the world, the most adept in your
          >discipline, and the most recognized expert in the world on what you
          >are teaching is no guarantee of safe passage through the halls of academia...
          >
          >Some people's cynicism is other people's optimism... :-)
          >
          >bear
          >
          >Marcia E Ring <<mailto:Marcia.Ring%40uvm.edu>Marcia.Ring@...>
          >wrote: I had a conversation not too long ago with a colleague (not at UVM)
          >who recently was granted tenure. Part of what was shared with me is
          >that while you are on the tenure track, you have to make sure you
          >don't do anything to get your fellow faculty members angry with you
          >because you want their votes for tenure.
          >
          >Bear, your post reminded me of this conversation. I've pretty much
          >decided not to go tenure track in part because I'm 51 and have only
          >been teaching for 4 years now. While I have research interests, and
          >certainly multiple scholarly interests, I don't see myself as the
          >aggressive grant receiving type. (Now I realize there are biases
          >contained within that statement but I am honest if nothing else. Or
          >perhaps transparent is a better descriptor.) I do not see myself as
          >gearing up over the next batch of years, which, in part, is what
          >generated my first post that led to this conversation. I see myself as
          >working as hard, mostly at teaching, and as much as I am now, but not
          >MORE. Then, hopefully, maybe, there might be a time of gearing down?
          >But you get my drift.
          >
          >Two qualities of my personality are that I am flexible and responsive
          >to the needs I see presented around me, whether by my family, clients
          >or by my colleagues or by my department. This has resulted in my being
          >willing to change my schedule to meet needs that cannot otherwise be
          >met. As a result, the only course I have taught more than once is
          >clinical. Do you know how hard it is to write new lectures every
          >single semester? Okay, well not every semester but most semesters. I
          >would love to find my niche. Currently, I am nicheless. Plus, my
          >interests are so varied...and I haven't landed on one thing to focus
          >on, so I do tons of things. Ugh. Maybe these qualities are part of my
          >problem.
          >
          >So Bear, given the above, I bristled when I read the conclusion of
          >your post. While you strike some honest chords, it also felt very
          >cynical to me.
          >
          >I need to focus and not rant.
          >
          >Fran, it was so good to read your post with your accent (in my mind).
          >I've missed you.
          >
          >Marcia
          >--
          >Marcia E. Ring, PhD, APRN-BC
          >Clinical Specialist Psychiatry/Mental Health
          >Clinical Assistant Professor
          >College of Nursing and Health Sciences
          >Department of Nursing
          >University of Vermont
          >221 Rowell
          >106 Carrigan Drive
          >Burlington, Vermont 05405-0068
          >Tel: (802) 656-9013
          >Fax: (802) 656-8306
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          Peace, Love & Light,

          Vidette Todaro-Franceschi, RN, PhD
          Associate Professor & Graduate Coordinator,
          Advanced Adult Health Nursing (CNS) Graduate Program
          Hunter-Bellevue School of Nursing, Hunter College
          City University of New York
          *******************************************************
          www.energy-enigma.com

          "To see that everybody not merely depends on everybody, but actually
          everybody is everybody in a deeper sense" Bohm, On Creativity, 1998
        • Thomas Cox PhD, RN
          ... Thanks Vidette. There is a nice book review on Appointment Denied: The Inquisition of Bertrand Russell by Thom Weidlich. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books,
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 1, 2007
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            :-)

            Thanks Vidette.

            There is a nice book review on "Appointment Denied: The Inquisition of Bertrand Russell" by Thom Weidlich. Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1999, which has a bit more of the story for those curious but not ready to read the book... It is really interesting because of how incredibly parochial the issues were...

            Stephen Leberstein, who teaches at City College Center for Worker Education wrote the review, which can be had at:

            http://www.aaup.org/publications/Academe/2001/01nd/01ndBR.HTM#3

            bear



            Vidette Todaro-Franceschi <vtodaro@...> wrote: Well said Bear. Thanks for the tidbit on B. Russell; didn't know
            that, but it is so NOT surprising.

            Vidette
            At 02:48 PM 2/1/2007, you wrote:

            >Marcia,
            >
            >Apologies in advance for my stereotyped characterization of
            >institutions below...
            >
            >Remember, there are lots of different types of nursing schools. The
            >top tier tend to be research focused and if teaching and an active
            >social/family life is what you really want such schools tend to be
            >poor choices. The rewards in those settings tend to be allocated on
            >the basis of success in grantspersonship. The more money you bring
            >in the less teaching you do, the bigger your office, and the more
            >money you get to use to enhance your work. The more assistance you
            >get, the more grants you are expected to bring in... Sometimes
            >people 'wake up' after 20 years and feel like they have been a lab
            >rat on a treadmill and have lost sight of who they are and what they
            >want - but a lot of other people feel great and never doubt their
            >decisions and paths...
            >
            >Down/up (whatever direction is comfortable for the reader) the tree
            >you see four year academically oriented institutions where
            >grantspersonship success is less critical - doing presentations and
            >publishing a bit will be well received but the teaching is the focal
            >point of your progress to tenure and promotion.
            >
            >Further on the tree are the community colleges where presentations
            >and promotions are far less critical and good teaching evaluations
            >are the most critical factors in tenure and promotion.
            >
            >Hospital based nursing programs are even more focused on teaching
            >and less on publishing or presenting.
            >
            >So the critical thing is to think about who you are, what you want,
            >what you are willing to offer, and seeking a good match rather than
            >trying to remake an institution to fit you or vice versa. Some
            >people can't help publishing and presenting and they are going to do
            >that no matter where they are. But a lot of people hate that and
            >certainly do not want to have it be an important part of their
            >professional success.
            >
            >As far as the political aspect of tenure - there is some validity to
            >the idea of avoiding clashes with peers. But if you have correctly
            >assessed the institution, your colleagues, and yourself, during you
            >interviews and the trial periods leading to tenure, 90% of the
            >'friction' issues will never occur because you are where you opught
            >to be. If you are a square peg in a round institution you are
            >probably going to be out of synch with your colleagues more often
            >than if you are a round peg in a round institution or a square peg
            >in a square institution.
            >
            >It is sobering to recall that the pre-eminent (well at least in this
            >Bear's eyes) intellectual of the 20th century - Bertrand Russell -
            >was removed from his position teaching Symbolic Logic - the field he
            >revolutionized with his and Whitehead's Principia Mathematica - by
            >CCNY in 1940 because of his religious views. The powers that be felt
            >he would be as bad an influence on his students as Socrates was -
            >though at least they didn't ask him to imbibe any hemlock tea... So
            >even being the smartest person in the world, the most adept in your
            >discipline, and the most recognized expert in the world on what you
            >are teaching is no guarantee of safe passage through the halls of academia...
            >
            >Some people's cynicism is other people's optimism... :-)
            >
            >bear
            >
            >Marcia E Ring <<mailto:Marcia.Ring%40uvm.edu>Marcia.Ring@...>
            >wrote: I had a conversation not too long ago with a colleague (not at UVM)
            >who recently was granted tenure. Part of what was shared with me is
            >that while you are on the tenure track, you have to make sure you
            >don't do anything to get your fellow faculty members angry with you
            >because you want their votes for tenure.
            >
            >Bear, your post reminded me of this conversation. I've pretty much
            >decided not to go tenure track in part because I'm 51 and have only
            >been teaching for 4 years now. While I have research interests, and
            >certainly multiple scholarly interests, I don't see myself as the
            >aggressive grant receiving type. (Now I realize there are biases
            >contained within that statement but I am honest if nothing else. Or
            >perhaps transparent is a better descriptor.) I do not see myself as
            >gearing up over the next batch of years, which, in part, is what
            >generated my first post that led to this conversation. I see myself as
            >working as hard, mostly at teaching, and as much as I am now, but not
            >MORE. Then, hopefully, maybe, there might be a time of gearing down?
            >But you get my drift.
            >
            >Two qualities of my personality are that I am flexible and responsive
            >to the needs I see presented around me, whether by my family, clients
            >or by my colleagues or by my department. This has resulted in my being
            >willing to change my schedule to meet needs that cannot otherwise be
            >met. As a result, the only course I have taught more than once is
            >clinical. Do you know how hard it is to write new lectures every
            >single semester? Okay, well not every semester but most semesters. I
            >would love to find my niche. Currently, I am nicheless. Plus, my
            >interests are so varied...and I haven't landed on one thing to focus
            >on, so I do tons of things. Ugh. Maybe these qualities are part of my
            >problem.
            >
            >So Bear, given the above, I bristled when I read the conclusion of
            >your post. While you strike some honest chords, it also felt very
            >cynical to me.
            >
            >I need to focus and not rant.
            >
            >Fran, it was so good to read your post with your accent (in my mind).
            >I've missed you.
            >
            >Marcia
            >--
            >Marcia E. Ring, PhD, APRN-BC
            >Clinical Specialist Psychiatry/Mental Health
            >Clinical Assistant Professor
            >College of Nursing and Health Sciences
            >Department of Nursing
            >University of Vermont
            >221 Rowell
            >106 Carrigan Drive
            >Burlington, Vermont 05405-0068
            >Tel: (802) 656-9013
            >Fax: (802) 656-8306
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >

            Peace, Love & Light,

            Vidette Todaro-Franceschi, RN, PhD
            Associate Professor & Graduate Coordinator,
            Advanced Adult Health Nursing (CNS) Graduate Program
            Hunter-Bellevue School of Nursing, Hunter College
            City University of New York
            *******************************************************
            www.energy-enigma.com

            "To see that everybody not merely depends on everybody, but actually
            everybody is everybody in a deeper sense" Bohm, On Creativity, 1998






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • William Cowling WRCOWLIN
            Marcia: I have a different take on academia due to my experiences, which have been both negative and positive. I have to say that being in academia and being
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
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              Marcia:

              I have a different take on academia due to my experiences, which have been
              both negative and positive. I have to say that being in academia and
              being in a tenure track role since my PhD have brought me many blessings.
              What I want to share is not intended to diminish the role of clinical
              faculty or those types of appointments.

              Being in a tenure track has given me the opportunity to work with a wide
              variety of students including PhD without being strained beyond capacity.
              It has enabled me to engage in research and publishing. Neither of these
              things would have been possible for me had I chosen a clinical track
              because I could not have tolerated the differences in teaching load. In
              the four institutions for which I have worked clinical faculty were
              responsible for two to four more courses per year - many of them being
              very long clinical days.

              My mistakes in not progressing at the rate and with the depth I wanted to
              in scholarly work was my choice of positions (too much administrative) and
              my choice of environments (lack of substantive support for research both
              tangible and the intangibles as well as caring colleagues). I still have
              chosen some administrative work - being director of a PhD program - and I
              am an editor of a journal - but my publishing has increased significantly
              because of my choice to be where I am. The level of material and human
              support for scholarly endeavors is outstanding.

              I believe if you do what you love your heart will sing. I also think when
              your heart is singing you are loving yourself and giving out to the
              universe your very best. If you love clinical teaching and it makes your
              heart sing, that is perfect. You can do everything your heart desires -
              whatever that is. For me, it took some lessons related to my choices. You
              are young and you are a wonderful scholar - you have so much to give
              regardless of the number of years you spend doing it. When your heart is
              singing time has no meaning.

              Finally, I believe those of us, particularly in state sponsored schools,
              are privileged to have a great life of freedom in academia that many of us
              take for granted. I probably feel this because of the number of years
              that I have been tenured. But I think that what I have been given in the
              way of work is better than anything I could ever imagine. I go to work
              everyday knowing that working with students will be great fun AND very
              challenging. I go to work everyday know that I have the support and
              resources to conduct research and to write about my understandings. Most
              importantly, I have chosen a form of research that means there is a high
              degree of participation with people in helping them understand their lives
              and make meaningful choices in healing.

              I just came from a national doctoral forum and it was the first time that
              I heard almost unanimously that federal funding will be the tenure seeking
              strategy for only a very small percentage of faculty because there is
              simply not enough monies allocated to support the research faculty need to
              do. There is, I think, a new consciousness of funding or supporting
              important research. I have had very little federal funding myself and I
              consider my career successful. I could name countless others who have
              likewise been successful without federal dollars - of all ages and lengths
              of service.

              Bear is right about tendencies of schools to create pressure based on
              mission - however, I do think you can find schools who believe strongly in
              a variety of forms of scholarship. For me,today, my criteria is not the
              size of the school being more research focused, it is the presence of a
              medical school and/or health sciences center - everywhere I have been with
              a medical school, it dominates the research agenda of the university -
              both in types of research and content of research. So I find a huge
              amount of freedom on the UNCG campus where nursing is actually the
              strongest player in the research enterprise and there is no medical school
              or medical center.

              Richard


              W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
              Professor and Director PhD Program
              Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
              School of Nursing
              University of North Carolina Greensboro
              P.O. Box 26170
              Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
              Phone: 336-334-4785
              FAX: 336-334-3628



              Marcia E Ring <Marcia.Ring@...>
              Sent by: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
              02/01/2007 01:47 PM
              Please respond to
              Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com


              To
              Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
              cc

              Subject
              [Martha_E_Rogers] Now I'm really depressed (:>)






              I had a conversation not too long ago with a colleague (not at UVM)
              who recently was granted tenure. Part of what was shared with me is
              that while you are on the tenure track, you have to make sure you
              don't do anything to get your fellow faculty members angry with you
              because you want their votes for tenure.

              Bear, your post reminded me of this conversation. I've pretty much
              decided not to go tenure track in part because I'm 51 and have only
              been teaching for 4 years now. While I have research interests, and
              certainly multiple scholarly interests, I don't see myself as the
              aggressive grant receiving type. (Now I realize there are biases
              contained within that statement but I am honest if nothing else. Or
              perhaps transparent is a better descriptor.) I do not see myself as
              gearing up over the next batch of years, which, in part, is what
              generated my first post that led to this conversation. I see myself as
              working as hard, mostly at teaching, and as much as I am now, but not
              MORE. Then, hopefully, maybe, there might be a time of gearing down?
              But you get my drift.

              Two qualities of my personality are that I am flexible and responsive
              to the needs I see presented around me, whether by my family, clients
              or by my colleagues or by my department. This has resulted in my being
              willing to change my schedule to meet needs that cannot otherwise be
              met. As a result, the only course I have taught more than once is
              clinical. Do you know how hard it is to write new lectures every
              single semester? Okay, well not every semester but most semesters. I
              would love to find my niche. Currently, I am nicheless. Plus, my
              interests are so varied...and I haven't landed on one thing to focus
              on, so I do tons of things. Ugh. Maybe these qualities are part of my
              problem.

              So Bear, given the above, I bristled when I read the conclusion of
              your post. While you strike some honest chords, it also felt very
              cynical to me.

              I need to focus and not rant.

              Fran, it was so good to read your post with your accent (in my mind).
              I've missed you.

              Marcia
              --
              Marcia E. Ring, PhD, APRN-BC
              Clinical Specialist Psychiatry/Mental Health
              Clinical Assistant Professor
              College of Nursing and Health Sciences
              Department of Nursing
              University of Vermont
              221 Rowell
              106 Carrigan Drive
              Burlington, Vermont 05405-0068
              Tel: (802) 656-9013
              Fax: (802) 656-8306




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Thomas Cox PhD, RN
              Hi Richard, Of course you have also had the advantage of devoted, cooperative, and easy to get along with doctoral students who adored you and waited with
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
              View Source
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                Hi Richard,

                Of course you have also had the advantage of devoted, cooperative, and easy to get along with doctoral students who adored you and waited with baited breath for every word of wisdom... I am sure that must have added immeasurably to the satisfactions you have experienced...

                :-)

                Bear

                William Cowling WRCOWLIN <WRCOWLIN@...> wrote: Marcia:

                I have a different take on academia due to my experiences, which have been
                both negative and positive. I have to say that being in academia and
                being in a tenure track role since my PhD have brought me many blessings.
                What I want to share is not intended to diminish the role of clinical
                faculty or those types of appointments.

                Being in a tenure track has given me the opportunity to work with a wide
                variety of students including PhD without being strained beyond capacity.
                It has enabled me to engage in research and publishing. Neither of these
                things would have been possible for me had I chosen a clinical track
                because I could not have tolerated the differences in teaching load. In
                the four institutions for which I have worked clinical faculty were
                responsible for two to four more courses per year - many of them being
                very long clinical days.

                My mistakes in not progressing at the rate and with the depth I wanted to
                in scholarly work was my choice of positions (too much administrative) and
                my choice of environments (lack of substantive support for research both
                tangible and the intangibles as well as caring colleagues). I still have
                chosen some administrative work - being director of a PhD program - and I
                am an editor of a journal - but my publishing has increased significantly
                because of my choice to be where I am. The level of material and human
                support for scholarly endeavors is outstanding.

                I believe if you do what you love your heart will sing. I also think when
                your heart is singing you are loving yourself and giving out to the
                universe your very best. If you love clinical teaching and it makes your
                heart sing, that is perfect. You can do everything your heart desires -
                whatever that is. For me, it took some lessons related to my choices. You
                are young and you are a wonderful scholar - you have so much to give
                regardless of the number of years you spend doing it. When your heart is
                singing time has no meaning.

                Finally, I believe those of us, particularly in state sponsored schools,
                are privileged to have a great life of freedom in academia that many of us
                take for granted. I probably feel this because of the number of years
                that I have been tenured. But I think that what I have been given in the
                way of work is better than anything I could ever imagine. I go to work
                everyday knowing that working with students will be great fun AND very
                challenging. I go to work everyday know that I have the support and
                resources to conduct research and to write about my understandings. Most
                importantly, I have chosen a form of research that means there is a high
                degree of participation with people in helping them understand their lives
                and make meaningful choices in healing.

                I just came from a national doctoral forum and it was the first time that
                I heard almost unanimously that federal funding will be the tenure seeking
                strategy for only a very small percentage of faculty because there is
                simply not enough monies allocated to support the research faculty need to
                do. There is, I think, a new consciousness of funding or supporting
                important research. I have had very little federal funding myself and I
                consider my career successful. I could name countless others who have
                likewise been successful without federal dollars - of all ages and lengths
                of service.

                Bear is right about tendencies of schools to create pressure based on
                mission - however, I do think you can find schools who believe strongly in
                a variety of forms of scholarship. For me,today, my criteria is not the
                size of the school being more research focused, it is the presence of a
                medical school and/or health sciences center - everywhere I have been with
                a medical school, it dominates the research agenda of the university -
                both in types of research and content of research. So I find a huge
                amount of freedom on the UNCG campus where nursing is actually the
                strongest player in the research enterprise and there is no medical school
                or medical center.

                Richard

                W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                Professor and Director PhD Program
                Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                School of Nursing
                University of North Carolina Greensboro
                P.O. Box 26170
                Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                Phone: 336-334-4785
                FAX: 336-334-3628

                Marcia E Ring <Marcia.Ring@...>
                Sent by: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                02/01/2007 01:47 PM
                Please respond to
                Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com

                To
                Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                cc

                Subject
                [Martha_E_Rogers] Now I'm really depressed (:>)

                I had a conversation not too long ago with a colleague (not at UVM)
                who recently was granted tenure. Part of what was shared with me is
                that while you are on the tenure track, you have to make sure you
                don't do anything to get your fellow faculty members angry with you
                because you want their votes for tenure.

                Bear, your post reminded me of this conversation. I've pretty much
                decided not to go tenure track in part because I'm 51 and have only
                been teaching for 4 years now. While I have research interests, and
                certainly multiple scholarly interests, I don't see myself as the
                aggressive grant receiving type. (Now I realize there are biases
                contained within that statement but I am honest if nothing else. Or
                perhaps transparent is a better descriptor.) I do not see myself as
                gearing up over the next batch of years, which, in part, is what
                generated my first post that led to this conversation. I see myself as
                working as hard, mostly at teaching, and as much as I am now, but not
                MORE. Then, hopefully, maybe, there might be a time of gearing down?
                But you get my drift.

                Two qualities of my personality are that I am flexible and responsive
                to the needs I see presented around me, whether by my family, clients
                or by my colleagues or by my department. This has resulted in my being
                willing to change my schedule to meet needs that cannot otherwise be
                met. As a result, the only course I have taught more than once is
                clinical. Do you know how hard it is to write new lectures every
                single semester? Okay, well not every semester but most semesters. I
                would love to find my niche. Currently, I am nicheless. Plus, my
                interests are so varied...and I haven't landed on one thing to focus
                on, so I do tons of things. Ugh. Maybe these qualities are part of my
                problem.

                So Bear, given the above, I bristled when I read the conclusion of
                your post. While you strike some honest chords, it also felt very
                cynical to me.

                I need to focus and not rant.

                Fran, it was so good to read your post with your accent (in my mind).
                I've missed you.

                Marcia
                --
                Marcia E. Ring, PhD, APRN-BC
                Clinical Specialist Psychiatry/Mental Health
                Clinical Assistant Professor
                College of Nursing and Health Sciences
                Department of Nursing
                University of Vermont
                221 Rowell
                106 Carrigan Drive
                Burlington, Vermont 05405-0068
                Tel: (802) 656-9013
                Fax: (802) 656-8306

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Vidette Todaro-Franceschi, RN, PhD
                Thanks. Read the review. Book now on my reading list for upcoming summer (but first there is HP 1-6 to gear up (one more time) for 7/21 book 7! Peace, Love, &
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
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                  Thanks. Read the review. Book now on my reading list for upcoming summer (but first there is HP 1-6 to gear up (one more time) for 7/21 book 7!
                  Peace, Love, & Light,

                  Vidette Todaro-Franceschi RN, PhD.
                  Associate Professor & Specialization Coordinator
                  Adult Health Advanced Practice Graduate Program
                  Hunter-Bellevue School of Nursing
                  Hunter College, City University of New York
                  vtodaro@...

                  *********************************
                  www.energy-enigma.com

                  "To see that everybody not merely depends on everybody, but actually everybody is everybody in a deeper sense."
                  Bohm, On Creativity, 1998.
                • William Cowling WRCOWLIN
                  Bear: Absolutely - that is true - it has been thrilling to work with PhD students - I only had one who was a major annoyance - was grisly at times when he
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
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                    Bear:

                    Absolutely - that is true - it has been thrilling to work with PhD
                    students - I only had one who was a major annoyance - was grisly at times
                    when he wasn't hibernating - came to my house kicking over trash cans and
                    scratching at the door - claimed he was just hungry - I assumed for
                    knowledge. Oh, well - one like that wasn't too bad.

                    Richard


                    W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                    Professor and Director PhD Program
                    Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                    School of Nursing
                    University of North Carolina Greensboro
                    P.O. Box 26170
                    Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                    Phone: 336-334-4785
                    FAX: 336-334-3628



                    "Thomas Cox PhD, RN" <tc_spirit@...>
                    Sent by: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                    02/02/2007 11:31 AM
                    Please respond to
                    Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com


                    To
                    Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                    cc

                    Subject
                    Re: [Martha_E_Rogers] Now I'm really depressed (:>)






                    Hi Richard,

                    Of course you have also had the advantage of devoted, cooperative, and
                    easy to get along with doctoral students who adored you and waited with
                    baited breath for every word of wisdom... I am sure that must have added
                    immeasurably to the satisfactions you have experienced...

                    :-)

                    Bear

                    William Cowling WRCOWLIN <WRCOWLIN@...> wrote: Marcia:

                    I have a different take on academia due to my experiences, which have been

                    both negative and positive. I have to say that being in academia and
                    being in a tenure track role since my PhD have brought me many blessings.
                    What I want to share is not intended to diminish the role of clinical
                    faculty or those types of appointments.

                    Being in a tenure track has given me the opportunity to work with a wide
                    variety of students including PhD without being strained beyond capacity.
                    It has enabled me to engage in research and publishing. Neither of these
                    things would have been possible for me had I chosen a clinical track
                    because I could not have tolerated the differences in teaching load. In
                    the four institutions for which I have worked clinical faculty were
                    responsible for two to four more courses per year - many of them being
                    very long clinical days.

                    My mistakes in not progressing at the rate and with the depth I wanted to
                    in scholarly work was my choice of positions (too much administrative) and

                    my choice of environments (lack of substantive support for research both
                    tangible and the intangibles as well as caring colleagues). I still have
                    chosen some administrative work - being director of a PhD program - and I
                    am an editor of a journal - but my publishing has increased significantly
                    because of my choice to be where I am. The level of material and human
                    support for scholarly endeavors is outstanding.

                    I believe if you do what you love your heart will sing. I also think when
                    your heart is singing you are loving yourself and giving out to the
                    universe your very best. If you love clinical teaching and it makes your
                    heart sing, that is perfect. You can do everything your heart desires -
                    whatever that is. For me, it took some lessons related to my choices. You
                    are young and you are a wonderful scholar - you have so much to give
                    regardless of the number of years you spend doing it. When your heart is
                    singing time has no meaning.

                    Finally, I believe those of us, particularly in state sponsored schools,
                    are privileged to have a great life of freedom in academia that many of us

                    take for granted. I probably feel this because of the number of years
                    that I have been tenured. But I think that what I have been given in the
                    way of work is better than anything I could ever imagine. I go to work
                    everyday knowing that working with students will be great fun AND very
                    challenging. I go to work everyday know that I have the support and
                    resources to conduct research and to write about my understandings. Most
                    importantly, I have chosen a form of research that means there is a high
                    degree of participation with people in helping them understand their lives

                    and make meaningful choices in healing.

                    I just came from a national doctoral forum and it was the first time that
                    I heard almost unanimously that federal funding will be the tenure seeking

                    strategy for only a very small percentage of faculty because there is
                    simply not enough monies allocated to support the research faculty need to

                    do. There is, I think, a new consciousness of funding or supporting
                    important research. I have had very little federal funding myself and I
                    consider my career successful. I could name countless others who have
                    likewise been successful without federal dollars - of all ages and lengths

                    of service.

                    Bear is right about tendencies of schools to create pressure based on
                    mission - however, I do think you can find schools who believe strongly in

                    a variety of forms of scholarship. For me,today, my criteria is not the
                    size of the school being more research focused, it is the presence of a
                    medical school and/or health sciences center - everywhere I have been with

                    a medical school, it dominates the research agenda of the university -
                    both in types of research and content of research. So I find a huge
                    amount of freedom on the UNCG campus where nursing is actually the
                    strongest player in the research enterprise and there is no medical school

                    or medical center.

                    Richard

                    W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                    Professor and Director PhD Program
                    Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                    School of Nursing
                    University of North Carolina Greensboro
                    P.O. Box 26170
                    Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                    Phone: 336-334-4785
                    FAX: 336-334-3628

                    Marcia E Ring <Marcia.Ring@...>
                    Sent by: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                    02/01/2007 01:47 PM
                    Please respond to
                    Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com

                    To
                    Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                    cc

                    Subject
                    [Martha_E_Rogers] Now I'm really depressed (:>)

                    I had a conversation not too long ago with a colleague (not at UVM)
                    who recently was granted tenure. Part of what was shared with me is
                    that while you are on the tenure track, you have to make sure you
                    don't do anything to get your fellow faculty members angry with you
                    because you want their votes for tenure.

                    Bear, your post reminded me of this conversation. I've pretty much
                    decided not to go tenure track in part because I'm 51 and have only
                    been teaching for 4 years now. While I have research interests, and
                    certainly multiple scholarly interests, I don't see myself as the
                    aggressive grant receiving type. (Now I realize there are biases
                    contained within that statement but I am honest if nothing else. Or
                    perhaps transparent is a better descriptor.) I do not see myself as
                    gearing up over the next batch of years, which, in part, is what
                    generated my first post that led to this conversation. I see myself as
                    working as hard, mostly at teaching, and as much as I am now, but not
                    MORE. Then, hopefully, maybe, there might be a time of gearing down?
                    But you get my drift.

                    Two qualities of my personality are that I am flexible and responsive
                    to the needs I see presented around me, whether by my family, clients
                    or by my colleagues or by my department. This has resulted in my being
                    willing to change my schedule to meet needs that cannot otherwise be
                    met. As a result, the only course I have taught more than once is
                    clinical. Do you know how hard it is to write new lectures every
                    single semester? Okay, well not every semester but most semesters. I
                    would love to find my niche. Currently, I am nicheless. Plus, my
                    interests are so varied...and I haven't landed on one thing to focus
                    on, so I do tons of things. Ugh. Maybe these qualities are part of my
                    problem.

                    So Bear, given the above, I bristled when I read the conclusion of
                    your post. While you strike some honest chords, it also felt very
                    cynical to me.

                    I need to focus and not rant.

                    Fran, it was so good to read your post with your accent (in my mind).
                    I've missed you.

                    Marcia
                    --
                    Marcia E. Ring, PhD, APRN-BC
                    Clinical Specialist Psychiatry/Mental Health
                    Clinical Assistant Professor
                    College of Nursing and Health Sciences
                    Department of Nursing
                    University of Vermont
                    221 Rowell
                    106 Carrigan Drive
                    Burlington, Vermont 05405-0068
                    Tel: (802) 656-9013
                    Fax: (802) 656-8306

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Thomas Cox PhD, RN
                    true - i didn t realize howard was so poorly behaved... tsk tsk ... bear William Cowling WRCOWLIN wrote:
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
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                      true - i didn't realize howard was so poorly behaved... tsk tsk

                      :-)

                      bear

                      William Cowling WRCOWLIN <WRCOWLIN@...> wrote: Bear:

                      Absolutely - that is true - it has been thrilling to work with PhD
                      students - I only had one who was a major annoyance - was grisly at times
                      when he wasn't hibernating - came to my house kicking over trash cans and
                      scratching at the door - claimed he was just hungry - I assumed for
                      knowledge. Oh, well - one like that wasn't too bad.

                      Richard

                      W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                      Professor and Director PhD Program
                      Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                      School of Nursing
                      University of North Carolina Greensboro
                      P.O. Box 26170
                      Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                      Phone: 336-334-4785
                      FAX: 336-334-3628






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Rutherford, Kelly D
                      Have you ever been to the zoo and been so captured by one particular exhibit that you felt you could sit for hours and watch the animals interact in their own
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
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                        Have you ever been to the zoo and been so captured by one particular
                        exhibit that you felt you could sit for hours and watch the animals
                        interact in their own little world?



                        As a NON-academic this exhibit is quite fascinating, LOL. I'm learning
                        so much.



                        Kelly D. Rutherford

                        MSN, ARNP-C, FNP

                        Lead Care Coordinator

                        Jack C. Montgomery VAMC

                        1011 Honor Heights Dr, CCHT-118

                        Muskogee, Ok 74401

                        Phone: 918.781.8593

                        Fax: 918.781.8596

                        Kelly.Rutherford@...





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Thomas Cox PhD, RN
                        well no, but before they retired me from the central park zoo, i spent an awful lot of time watching the human exhibits. i think there may be a parallel there
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
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                          well no, but before they retired me from the central park zoo, i spent an awful lot of time watching the human exhibits.

                          i think there may be a parallel there somewhere...

                          :-)

                          bear

                          "Rutherford, Kelly D" <Kelly.Rutherford@...> wrote: Have you ever been to the zoo and been so captured by one particular
                          exhibit that you felt you could sit for hours and watch the animals
                          interact in their own little world?

                          As a NON-academic this exhibit is quite fascinating, LOL. I'm learning
                          so much.

                          Kelly D. Rutherford

                          MSN, ARNP-C, FNP

                          Lead Care Coordinator

                          Jack C. Montgomery VAMC

                          1011 Honor Heights Dr, CCHT-118

                          Muskogee, Ok 74401

                          Phone: 918.781.8593

                          Fax: 918.781.8596

                          Kelly.Rutherford@...

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Butcher, Howard K
                          Thanks bear Howard Karl Butcher, RN; PhD, APRN, BC Associate Professor 324NB The University of Iowa College of Nursing Iowa City, Iowa 52242-1121 319-335-7039
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
                          View Source
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                            Thanks bear

                            Howard Karl Butcher, RN; PhD, APRN, BC
                            Associate Professor
                            324NB
                            The University of Iowa College of Nursing
                            Iowa City, Iowa 52242-1121
                            319-335-7039
                            howard-butcher@...



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Thomas Cox PhD, RN
                            Sent: Fri 2/2/2007 4:23 PM
                            To: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Martha_E_Rogers] Now I'm really depressed (:>)

                            true - i didn't realize howard was so poorly behaved... tsk tsk

                            :-)

                            bear

                            William Cowling WRCOWLIN <WRCOWLIN@...> wrote: Bear:

                            Absolutely - that is true - it has been thrilling to work with PhD
                            students - I only had one who was a major annoyance - was grisly at times
                            when he wasn't hibernating - came to my house kicking over trash cans and
                            scratching at the door - claimed he was just hungry - I assumed for
                            knowledge. Oh, well - one like that wasn't too bad.

                            Richard

                            W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                            Professor and Director PhD Program
                            Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                            School of Nursing
                            University of North Carolina Greensboro
                            P.O. Box 26170
                            Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                            Phone: 336-334-4785
                            FAX: 336-334-3628






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Thomas Cox PhD, RN
                            Always looking out for ya buddy! ... bear Butcher, Howard K wrote: Thanks bear Howard Karl Butcher, RN; PhD, APRN, BC Associate
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
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                              Always looking out for ya buddy!

                              :-)

                              bear

                              "Butcher, Howard K" <howard-butcher@...> wrote:

                              Thanks bear

                              Howard Karl Butcher, RN; PhD, APRN, BC
                              Associate Professor
                              324NB
                              The University of Iowa College of Nursing
                              Iowa City, Iowa 52242-1121
                              319-335-7039
                              howard-butcher@...

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Thomas Cox PhD, RN
                              Sent: Fri 2/2/2007 4:23 PM
                              To: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Martha_E_Rogers] Now I'm really depressed (:>)

                              true - i didn't realize howard was so poorly behaved... tsk tsk

                              :-)

                              bear

                              William Cowling WRCOWLIN <WRCOWLIN@...> wrote: Bear:

                              Absolutely - that is true - it has been thrilling to work with PhD
                              students - I only had one who was a major annoyance - was grisly at times
                              when he wasn't hibernating - came to my house kicking over trash cans and
                              scratching at the door - claimed he was just hungry - I assumed for
                              knowledge. Oh, well - one like that wasn't too bad.

                              Richard

                              W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                              Professor and Director PhD Program
                              Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                              School of Nursing
                              University of North Carolina Greensboro
                              P.O. Box 26170
                              Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                              Phone: 336-334-4785
                              FAX: 336-334-3628

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • William Cowling WRCOWLIN
                              I was not able to reply to this earlier because I was traveling and on webmail. Just to clarify, Howard, was exceptional in every non-grisly way - and the
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 7, 2007
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                                I was not able to reply to this earlier because I was traveling and on
                                webmail. Just to clarify, Howard, was exceptional in every non-grisly way
                                - and the scholar was shining through from the first time we talked.

                                So, keep trying, Bear, I mean, Tom.

                                Richard


                                W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                                Professor and Director PhD Program
                                Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                                School of Nursing
                                University of North Carolina Greensboro
                                P.O. Box 26170
                                Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                                Phone: 336-334-4785
                                FAX: 336-334-3628



                                "Thomas Cox PhD, RN" <tc_spirit@...>
                                Sent by: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                                02/02/2007 05:23 PM
                                Please respond to
                                Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com


                                To
                                Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                                cc

                                Subject
                                Re: [Martha_E_Rogers] Now I'm really depressed (:>)






                                true - i didn't realize howard was so poorly behaved... tsk tsk

                                :-)

                                bear

                                William Cowling WRCOWLIN <WRCOWLIN@...> wrote: Bear:

                                Absolutely - that is true - it has been thrilling to work with PhD
                                students - I only had one who was a major annoyance - was grisly at times
                                when he wasn't hibernating - came to my house kicking over trash cans and
                                scratching at the door - claimed he was just hungry - I assumed for
                                knowledge. Oh, well - one like that wasn't too bad.

                                Richard

                                W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                                Professor and Director PhD Program
                                Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                                School of Nursing
                                University of North Carolina Greensboro
                                P.O. Box 26170
                                Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                                Phone: 336-334-4785
                                FAX: 336-334-3628

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Thomas Cox PhD, RN
                                ... bear William Cowling WRCOWLIN wrote: I was not able to reply to this earlier because I was traveling
                                Message 15 of 15 , Feb 7, 2007
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                                  :-) i was wondering what happened to you...

                                  bear

                                  William Cowling WRCOWLIN <WRCOWLIN@...> wrote: I was not able to reply to this earlier because I was traveling and on
                                  webmail. Just to clarify, Howard, was exceptional in every non-grisly way
                                  - and the scholar was shining through from the first time we talked.

                                  So, keep trying, Bear, I mean, Tom.

                                  Richard

                                  W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                                  Professor and Director PhD Program
                                  Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                                  School of Nursing
                                  University of North Carolina Greensboro
                                  P.O. Box 26170
                                  Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                                  Phone: 336-334-4785
                                  FAX: 336-334-3628

                                  "Thomas Cox PhD, RN" <tc_spirit@...>
                                  Sent by: Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com
                                  02/02/2007 05:23 PM
                                  Please respond to
                                  Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com

                                  To
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                                  Re: [Martha_E_Rogers] Now I'm really depressed (:>)

                                  true - i didn't realize howard was so poorly behaved... tsk tsk

                                  :-)

                                  bear

                                  William Cowling WRCOWLIN <WRCOWLIN@...> wrote: Bear:

                                  Absolutely - that is true - it has been thrilling to work with PhD
                                  students - I only had one who was a major annoyance - was grisly at times
                                  when he wasn't hibernating - came to my house kicking over trash cans and
                                  scratching at the door - claimed he was just hungry - I assumed for
                                  knowledge. Oh, well - one like that wasn't too bad.

                                  Richard

                                  W. Richard Cowling, III, RN, PhD, APRN-BC
                                  Professor and Director PhD Program
                                  Editor, Journal of Holistic Nursing
                                  School of Nursing
                                  University of North Carolina Greensboro
                                  P.O. Box 26170
                                  Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
                                  Phone: 336-334-4785
                                  FAX: 336-334-3628

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