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Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Charlie Hayes' shop

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  • David&Carol
    Hi Don, He was offering several Ferraris, A 250 Cal spyder, an SWB (2243), that I became the owner of seven years later. and a Cobra. Best wishes, David Kauai
    Message 1 of 35 , Jun 12, 2013
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      Hi Don,

      He was offering several Ferraris, A 250 Cal spyder, an SWB (2243),  that I became the owner of seven years later. and a Cobra.

      Best wishes,

      David

      Kauai
      On 12 Jun 2013, at 13:02, donaldfrye@... wrote:



      David:

      Like I said, Charlie's Summit Ave. shop was in the 1960-1962 range.  Just out of curiousity,  what was Charlie advertising at that point?  I know that he was running USSRC under 2 liter early in the year and then graduated to Craig Lang's Lang Cooper later in the year.
       
       
      On 06/12/13, David&Carol<scshmoo@...> wrote:
       

      Hi Don,


      I have a flyer form later and a newspaper advert Feb 12, 1965 where he uses 3837 Plyers Mill Road as his business address.

      Regards,

      David

      Kauai
      On 12 Jun 2013, at 12:51, donaldfrye@... wrote:



      Just to add a little more clarity to the Hayes/Tatum shops in Kensington.  Charlie had a shop about 1960-1962 at 10523 Summit Ave. across the railroad bridge from Tatum's shop.  Still have a flyer from Charlie's stating that he was a dealer for Lotus and Elva.

      Don Frye
       
       
      On 06/12/13, David&Carol<scshmoo@...> wrote:
       

      Hi Ray,


      Gordon's Father was Gordon Russel Tatum, Sr. He worked at the Applied Physics Lab (APL/JHU 8621 Georgia Ave) in Silver Spring during the war developing the VT proximity fuse for artillery shells. In the early 1950s he left APL/JHU and founded Vitro Labs. First located across from Pumphery's Funeral Home above the Masons. The nice building on Georgia  Ave extended beyond Olney was built toward the end of the 1950s.

      Gordon had the shop on 3837  Plyers Mill Road in Kensington (behind the fire house). Charlie used it as a base and showroom.

      Bob Hurt was a male model and very good driver. I think he raced sports cars before he was 21.  He never crashed at Marlboro. His injury happened during practice for the 1968  Indy 500. He was driving #14 Quaker State and backed into the SW turn wall. A suspension part or the roll bar was pushed into his neck. He was paralysed for the rest of his life.

      Best wishes,

      David
      Kauai
      On 12 Jun 2013, at 12:08, Ray Fleming wrote:



      RE: Ferrari prices...in about '66 or so, there was a used car lot on the west side of US1, right at a light about 100 yards south of the US1/DC beltway interchange. They had a 250GT SWB Berlinetta, painted kinda bright yellow, with a price of $3,995. on the hood. I stopped my Volvo 123-GT to look at it. It had obviously undergone some quick and dirty bodywork, and at the time, I was making about $500 bucks a month with a baby, so, end of story.
       
      Also, am I getting Gordon Tatum and Charlie Hayes confused? I know that Hayes had a shop in Kensington, because In about 63 or 64, he did a tuneup on my 54 TR-2. In his showroom, there sat a red Ferrari (a Testa Rosa, I think), and on that day I met a guy named Hal Booher who became a lifelong SCCA/dirtbike/taildragger flying buddy. At the time, he raced a white Elva Courier; some of you may remember Hal. (We were both getting a Hayes-hosing that day.)
       
      Also, wasn't Tatum the son of the guy that owned Vitro Laboratories in northern Montgomery Co?
       
      Lastly, my recollection is that it was Bob Hurt who wrecked his Ferrari in the chicane, and further, that he was then a full or semi-parapalegic for the rest of his life. Can anyone verify that. And, I thought he was real young at that time; where did he get all that dough?
       
       

      From: David&Carol <scshmoo@...>
      To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com 
      Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:07 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Check out this video
      Hi Bob,

      The car you describe sounds like a 330 P serial 0810, but I do not think it was ever raced by Andretti.

      0810 started life as a 250 P then was upgraded by the factory to 330P.

      Pedro Rodriguez raced it (Pedro was short) as did John (Buck) Fulp, Skip Hudson and Bob Grossman.

      Regards,

      David
      Kauai
      On 12 Jun 2013, at 07:17, Bob wrote:
      An amazing number of truly legendary Ferraris went through Gordons hands, including many NART cars that didn't find buyers after Sebring, Nassau and Daytona. Pete Sherman wound up with a Tatum Lusso or two, and there were at least two ICE GTOs, a whole host of 250 and 330GTs and my 275GTB4.

      Bob Hurt was one of Gordon's "clients" and I recall a flap when the ex-Andretti enduro winning car (330P?) showed up at Marlboro and the roll bar height rules had been changed. Hurt squawked about it being legal for Daytona or whatever, and the tech guys pointed out that Bob was 6" taller than Mario. 

      I believe that car wound up with a normal engine after Harvey Cluxton blew the race engine on the street, and putting that historic car back together involved some nasty lawsuits, and someone blowing up Harvey's helicopter.

      Cheers, Bob

      On 6/12/2013 11:23 AM, MIchael Ling wrote:
      Hi Sam, thanks for the update on Gordon Tatum.  Of course at the time, in 1966, I was mesmerized by his GTO.  At today's GTO money, it's hard to believe that Gordon was banging it around at SCCA regional races. I did wondered how much was Gordon's driving and how much was the car.  I think Gordon did have more than a bit of talent.  I also thought there was a bit of jealousy in the pit.  I recalled that behind his back, his name was 'Tata', denoted his upperty mannerism.  I was not awared of his dealings until when I enrolled in law school here in California, 1979.  I was assigned to research on a case named "Maryland vs. Tatum". Sam, you can well imagined my shock to read the name Gordon Tatum on the complaint.  It was a convoluted 3-party deal involved Gordon, a purchasing client, and Chinetti on a lightweight Ferrari Daytona.  I somewhat dismissed the case as typical when dealing Chinetti.  However some years later when  I mentioned the case to a member within the Ferrari circle, the individual was not surprised, as evidently Gordon has acquired a less than stellar standing within the Ferrari circle.  All rather tragic don't you think?  With his God given talents, he would have gone FAR onhe right side of the law.  I have seen this before, I attributed it to character flaw.
          May be you can help me on this one, Sam.  In 1965-1966, Gordon mentored a kid named Koenigsberg.  This wealthy rookie showed up at the Marlboro driver school with a Ferrai SWB.  Not just any SWB, but one with Testa Rossa engine, with scooped 6 dual Webers.  He lost it and the car went back to Italy and back into his hand.  Well, at his first race back, he came up to Warren Shamlian while the cars lined up on the Bowl and told Warren that he is going to beat Warren ( in his Elva).  I recalled that Koenigsberg was more thaa few rows behind Warren.  When the flag fell, the kid did make a few brave moves, passed few cars while still on the bowl.  Saddly, he flew off the bowl's drop off and lost it on landing, brought out scattered chaos onto the left side of the track.  That was fortunate because the guards were on the right side.  I have wondered whatever happened to both Kenigsberg and that very very special 250 SWB.
                                                                                                               Michael

      From: mailto:Sam_Smith01@... mailto:Sam_Smith01@...
      To: Marlboro Raceway mailto:Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com 
      Cc: Marlboro Raceway mailto:Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com 
      Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:31 AM
      Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Check out this video

      Hi Folks
       
      For those that did not know, Gordon Tatum, Jr. died February 9th, 2012 <born July 5th, 1940> -- Gordon suffered heat stroke in 2008 or 9 and was housed in a state sponsored nursing home. His family requested that Gordon not be contacted after his stroke -- a friend saw mention of Gordon's passing in a "Rodder's Journal" article that talked about his front engine dragster "The Surfer" and emailed me. Gordon was quite a character <sometimes a bad one> - I believe most would agree - he did "business" in Kensington as Internal Combustion Engines, later had shops in Shady Grove and near the Montgomery County Air Park. Gordon did bring many fine ex-factory Ferrari race cars to Marlboro and VIR when no one else did -- He had extraordinary examples of Ferraris and other exotic cars through his shop(s). I for one hope he found some piece at the end
       
      Regards,
      Sam Smith










    • David&Carol
      Hi Ray, When Gordon got out of the USAF in late 1962 he opened up the shop on Gasoline Alley. That must have been about the time that Charlie closed up his
      Message 35 of 35 , Jun 28, 2013
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        Hi Ray,

        When Gordon got out of the USAF in late 1962 he opened up the shop on "Gasoline Alley." That must have been about the time that Charlie closed up his shop further down Plyers Mill (10521 Summit Ave.).

        Hayes started using Gordon's shop to display and sell his cars from.

        Was just reading in Comp Press about Gene Hobbs and Charlie opening the "Knickerbacher  Club (?think that was the name). The short piece in CP gave the address. That was sometime in 1963. Charlie also parked his cars behind an apartment building on East West  Highway near BCC. I remember seeing the 250 TR on its trailer in Nov 1960. I believe he lived in the building, so the SWB would have been parked there too.

        Rattus  Walter’s Ford, that had won the Charolette NASCRAP race in 1962, came to Marlboro for the Refrigerator Bowl races in January 1963 with Elmo Langley
        driving. It was hampered by a lack of road racing tires. Langley tried with slicks, but spun out on icy patches. With dirt track tires the car handled better, but still did not have the grip to defeat the Corvette Sting
        Rays of Dr. Dick Thompson, Don Yenko and the Porsche Carrera of Bruce Jennings in a five lap race of the road course.

        Attached two photos I took that day.

        Best wishes,

        David 

        Kauai



        On 28 Jun 2013, at 08:28, Ray Fleming wrote:

        David and Carol, thanks for clarification re Bob Hurt. Obviously, we're talking about the shop in that gasoline alley in Kensington. I remembered it as being owned by Charlie Hayes, but I was wrong. Do you folks remember when Charlie owned that bar/restaurant/nightclub on Wisconsin Ave., just a block or so inside DC. When there, he parked the 250GTSWB out front and one night somebody sugared his gas tank. And, further downtown, there was a bar called Café Burgundy. The owner had a NASCAR Grand National Ford that that he once ran at Marlboro in a 5-lap exhibition race against a Lotus.  My memory is that the Ford was driven by Elmo Langley, the Lotus by owner Ralph Williams, and that the Lotus won.  Can anyone verify or correct?

        Your Bob Hurt response was very useful. I'm 71, and I've spent my life doing stuff that could hurt a person (racing SCCA, Motocross, flying, sailboat racing, hunting moose/caribou/grizzlies  north of the Arctic Circle, three forced landings, etc.). Ironically, in 2007 I fell backwards down some stairs in my own living room. The result was a broken neck (repaired) and permanent spinal cord injuries, so I'm confined to either my bed or my 6-speed electric chair. I read Gordon's obit and realize that his situation was way worse than mine, and for decades longer.

        --- In Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com, David&Carol <scshmoo@...> wrote:

        Hi Ray,

        Gordon's Father was Gordon Russel Tatum, Sr. He worked at the Applied Physics Lab (APL/JHU 8621 Georgia Ave) in Silver Spring during the war developing the VT proximity fuse for artillery shells. In the early 1950s he left APL/JHU and founded Vitro Labs. First located across from Pumphery's Funeral Home above the Masons. The nice building on Georgia  Ave extended beyond Olney was built toward the end of the 1950s.

        Gordon had the shop on 3837  Plyers Mill Road in Kensington (behind the fire house). Charlie used it as a base and showroom.

        Bob Hurt was a male model and very good driver. I think he raced sports cars before he was 21.  He never crashed at Marlboro. His injury happened during practice for the 1968  Indy 500. He was driving #14 Quaker State and backed into the SW turn wall. A suspension part or the roll bar was pushed into his neck. He was paralysed for the rest of his life.

        Best wishes,

        David
        Kauai
        On 12 Jun 2013, at 12:08, Ray Fleming wrote:



        RE: Ferrari prices...in about '66 or so, there was a used car lot on the west side of US1, right at a light about 100 yards south of the US1/DC beltway interchange. They had a 250GT SWB Berlinetta, painted kinda bright yellow, with a price of $3,995. on the hood. I stopped my Volvo 123-GT to look at it. It had obviously undergone some quick and dirty bodywork, and at the time, I was making about $500 bucks a month with a baby, so, end of story.

        Also, am I getting Gordon Tatum and Charlie Hayes confused? I know that Hayes had a shop in Kensington, because In about 63 or 64, he did a tuneup on my 54 TR-2. In his showroom, there sat a red Ferrari (a Testa Rosa, I think), and on that day I met a guy named Hal Booher who became a lifelong SCCA/dirtbike/taildragger flying buddy. At the time, he raced a white Elva Courier; some of you may remember Hal. (We were both getting a Hayes-hosing that day.)

        Also, wasn't Tatum the son of the guy that owned Vitro Laboratories in northern Montgomery Co?

        Lastly, my recollection is that it was Bob Hurt who wrecked his Ferrari in the chicane, and further, that he was then a full or semi-parapalegic for the rest of his life. Can anyone verify that. And, I thought he was real young at that time; where did he get all that dough?



        From: David&Carol <scshmoo@...>
        To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:07 PM
        Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Check out this video
        Hi Bob,

        The car you describe sounds like a 330 P serial 0810, but I do not think it was ever raced by Andretti.

        0810 started life as a 250 P then was upgraded by the factory to 330P.

        Pedro Rodriguez raced it (Pedro was short) as did John (Buck) Fulp, Skip Hudson and Bob Grossman.

        Regards,

        David
        Kauai
        On 12 Jun 2013, at 07:17, Bob wrote:
        An amazing number of truly legendary Ferraris went through Gordons hands, including many NART cars that didn't find buyers after Sebring, Nassau and Daytona. Pete Sherman wound up with a Tatum Lusso or two, and there were at least two ICE GTOs, a whole host of 250 and 330GTs and my 275GTB4.

        Bob Hurt was one of Gordon's "clients" and I recall a flap when the ex-Andretti enduro winning car (330P?) showed up at Marlboro and the roll bar height rules had been changed. Hurt squawked about it being legal for Daytona or whatever, and the tech guys pointed out that Bob was 6" taller than Mario.

        I believe that car wound up with a normal engine after Harvey Cluxton blew the race engine on the street, and putting that historic car back together involved some nasty lawsuits, and someone blowing up Harvey's helicopter.

        Cheers, Bob

        On 6/12/2013 11:23 AM, MIchael Ling wrote:
        Hi Sam, thanks for the update on Gordon Tatum.  Of course at the time, in 1966, I was mesmerized by his GTO.  At today's GTO money, it's hard to believe that Gordon was banging it around at SCCA regional races. I did wondered how much was Gordon's driving and how much was the car.  I think Gordon did have more than a bit of talent.  I also thought there was a bit of jealousy in the pit.  I recalled that behind his back, his name was 'Tata', denoted his upperty mannerism.  I was not awared of his dealings until when I enrolled in law school here in California, 1979.  I was assigned to research on a case named "Maryland vs. Tatum". Sam, you can well imagined my shock to read the name Gordon Tatum on the complaint.  It was a convoluted 3-party deal involved Gordon, a purchasing client, and Chinetti on a lightweight Ferrari Daytona.  I somewhat dismissed the case as typical when dealing Chinetti.  However some years later when  I mentioned the case to a member within the Ferrari circle, the individual was not surprised, as evidently Gordon has acquired a less than stellar standing within the Ferrari circle.  All rather tragic don't you think?  With his God given talents, he would have gone FAR onhe right side of the law.  I have seen this before, I attributed it to character flaw.
           May be you can help me on this one, Sam.  In 1965-1966, Gordon mentored a kid named Koenigsberg.  This wealthy rookie showed up at the Marlboro driver school with a Ferrai SWB.  Not just any SWB, but one with Testa Rossa engine, with scooped 6 dual Webers.  He lost it and the car went back to Italy and back into his hand.  Well, at his first race back, he came up to Warren Shamlian while the cars lined up on the Bowl and told Warren that he is going to beat Warren ( in his Elva).  I recalled that Koenigsberg was more thaa few rows behind Warren.  When the flag fell, the kid did make a few brave moves, passed few cars while still on the bowl.  Saddly, he flew off the bowl's drop off and lost it on landing, brought out scattered chaos onto the left side of the track.  That was fortunate because the guards were on the right side.  I have wondered whatever happened to both Kenigsberg and that very very special 250 SWB.
                                                                                                                Michael

        From: mailto:Sam_Smith01@... mailto:Sam_Smith01@...
        To: Marlboro Raceway mailto:Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: Marlboro Raceway mailto:Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:31 AM
        Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Check out this video

        Hi Folks

        For those that did not know, Gordon Tatum, Jr. died February 9th, 2012 <born July 5th, 1940> -- Gordon suffered heat stroke in 2008 or 9 and was housed in a state sponsored nursing home. His family requested that Gordon not be contacted after his stroke -- a friend saw mention of Gordon's passing in a "Rodder's Journal" article that talked about his front engine dragster "The Surfer" and emailed me. Gordon was quite a character <sometimes a bad one> - I believe most would agree - he did "business" in Kensington as Internal Combustion Engines, later had shops in Shady Grove and near the Montgomery County Air Park. Gordon did bring many fine ex-factory Ferrari race cars to Marlboro and VIR when no one else did -- He had extraordinary examples of Ferraris and other exotic cars through his shop(s). I for one hope he found some piece at the end

        Regards,
        Sam Smith





        e1



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