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arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

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  • Steve Knoll
    looking for a few grumpy old men & women In addition to Bill Dobbins photos, this guy is selling pirated images from Pete Luongo as well as Dave Friedman &
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 2, 2012
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      looking for a few grumpy old men & women

      In addition to Bill Dobbins' photos, this guy is selling pirated images from Pete Luongo as well as Dave Friedman & others

      It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked

      I talked with Peter today & I know he does not have permission to use his images

      Further he is lying about not knowing who the photographers were, as he admits (he may have changed it now) that he scanned images from books (David Freidman's book on the Trans Am)

      As with all officially published books, everything is properly credited & copyright protections are clearly claimed

      anyway, here is one of his albums with pirated images

      http://public.fotki.com/gwadagone/group44-cars-1966-t/

      here is the place to complain, which does not require registration or a password

      http://client.fotki.com/complaint/

      I've left some comments in his guestbook

      he takes the comments down almost as soon as I identify the photographer

      I've filed a complaint with the operator, but this album is still open, possibly others with pirated material, no doubt some of you will recognize the photographers

      I have a pretty high confidence level that he has not obtained permission from anyone to use anything

      If your bored, drop in & take a pot shot at him once in awhile, assuming hie isn't shut down & banned by then
    • Robert Hines
      I think some of those pictures are from Bill Hall who took pictures for the group for a couple of years. Bob Hines ________________________________ From: Steve
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 3, 2012
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        I think some of those pictures are from Bill Hall who took pictures for the group for a couple of years.
        Bob Hines

        From: Steve Knoll <sknoll@...>
        To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 11:04 PM
        Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

         
        looking for a few grumpy old men & women

        In addition to Bill Dobbins' photos, this guy is selling pirated images from Pete Luongo as well as Dave Friedman & others

        It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked

        I talked with Peter today & I know he does not have permission to use his images

        Further he is lying about not knowing who the photographers were, as he admits (he may have changed it now) that he scanned images from books (David Freidman's book on the Trans Am)

        As with all officially published books, everything is properly credited & copyright protections are clearly claimed

        anyway, here is one of his albums with pirated images

        http://public.fotki.com/gwadagone/group44-cars-1966-t/

        here is the place to complain, which does not require registration or a password

        http://client.fotki.com/complaint/

        I've left some comments in his guestbook

        he takes the comments down almost as soon as I identify the photographer

        I've filed a complaint with the operator, but this album is still open, possibly others with pirated material, no doubt some of you will recognize the photographers

        I have a pretty high confidence level that he has not obtained permission from anyone to use anything

        If your bored, drop in & take a pot shot at him once in awhile, assuming hie isn't shut down & banned by then



      • Nick England
        Thanks, Steve - I ve corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 3, 2012
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          Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com"
           
          When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.
           
          This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.
           
          In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".
           
          So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!
           
          Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
          Nick England

           
          On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:
           
          It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked

        • Steve Knoll
          Good to hear from you Nick The work you ve done with the VIR history site has been an inspiration Pretty much everyone who is into period road racing know your
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 3, 2012
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            Good to hear from you Nick

            The work you've done with the VIR history site has been an inspiration

            Pretty much everyone who is into period road racing know your site; it has produced LOTS of smiles over the years, & that's just from me

            Thanx so much

            Steve K
            --- In Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com, Nick England <navy.radio@...> wrote:

            >
            > Just my personal 2 cents worth

            > Nick England
            > www.virhistory.com
          • Stephen Lloyd
            Nick, I wish I had a dollar for each hour I ve poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 3, 2012
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              Nick,
              I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.
               
              Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.
               
              It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in more than just racing) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos, but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...
               
              In any case, thanks for the kind words.
              Steve Lloyd, Historian
              Washington DC Region, SCCA

              From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
              To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
              Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

               
              Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com"
               
              When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.
               
              This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.
               
              In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".
               
              So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!
               
              Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
              Nick England

               
              On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:
               
              It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked



            • Sam_Smith01@comcast.net
              Me Too -- thanks Nick sam ... From: Steve Knoll To: Marlboro Raceway Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 4, 2012
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                Me Too -- thanks Nick

                 

                sam


                From: "Steve Knoll" <sknoll@...>
                To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 9:33:31 AM
                Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                 


                Good to hear from you Nick

                The work you've done with the VIR history site has been an inspiration

                Pretty much everyone who is into period road racing know your site; it has produced LOTS of smiles over the years, & that's just from me

                Thanx so much

                Steve K

                --- In Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com, Nick England <navy.radio@...> wrote:

                >
                > Just my personal 2 cents worth

                > Nick England
                > www.virhistory.com

              • Sam_Smith01@comcast.net
                Hi Steve & Nick, I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup  event  dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track  but
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 4, 2012
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                  Hi Steve & Nick,

                   

                  I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup event dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track but ran into a wall of resistence from the local community/county and town governments - He was told NO every way possible -- I drive by twice a day -- most of Marlboro is still there crumbling away under small trees and brush -- Local developer successful developer Al Turner tried the same thing 20 plus years ago -- and was told "NO" as well - the townies were very happy that the track "died" despite the fact that it put them on the map

                   

                  Regards,

                  sam smith <Marlboro resident from 59 to 71>

                   



                   


                  From: "Stephen Lloyd" <slloydmarlboro@...>
                  To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:55:30 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                   

                  Nick,
                  I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.
                   
                  Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.
                   
                  It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in more than just racing) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos, but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...
                   
                  In any case, thanks for the kind words.
                  Steve Lloyd, Historian
                  Washington DC Region, SCCA

                  From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
                  To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                   
                  Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com"
                   
                  When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.
                   
                  This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.
                   
                  In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".
                   
                  So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!
                   
                  Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
                  Nick England

                   
                  On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:
                   
                  It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked



                • donaldfrye@verizon.net
                  Well, if we can t rehab the track, how about rehabing OBI? Last I saw of the building it was a landscaping office or such. We could rebuild it to what it once
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 4, 2012
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                    Well, if we can't rehab the track, how about rehabing OBI?  Last I saw of the building it was a landscaping office or such.  We could rebuild it to what it once was and, then, hold regular reunions to remember Marlboro events in ways that they never happened.

                    But that's the way it is with a bunch of old guys.

                    Cheers and best wishes.

                    Don
                     
                     
                    On 03/04/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:
                     
                     

                    Hi Steve & Nick,

                     

                    I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup event dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track but ran into a wall of resistence from the local community/county and town governments - He was told NO every way possible -- I drive by twice a day -- most of Marlboro is still there crumbling away under small trees and brush -- Local developer successful developer Al Turner tried the same thing 20 plus years ago -- and was told "NO" as well - the townies were very happy that the track "died" despite the fact that it put them on the map

                     

                    Regards,

                    sam smith <Marlboro resident from 59 to 71>

                     



                     


                    From: "Stephen Lloyd" <slloydmarlboro@...>
                    To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:55:30 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                     

                    Nick,
                    I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.
                     
                    Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.
                     
                    It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in more than just racing) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos, but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...
                     
                    In any case, thanks for the kind words.
                    Steve Lloyd, Historian
                    Washington DC Region, SCCA

                    From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
                    To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                     
                    Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com"
                     
                    When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.
                     
                    This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.
                     
                    In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".
                     
                    So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!
                     
                    Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
                    Nick England

                     
                    On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:
                     
                    It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked



                  • Sam_Smith01@comcast.net
                    Hi Don, We don t need the OBI -- if you come up US Rt. #01 from the track to the main light where you would turn left for the short downhill run to  the the
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 5, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Hi Don,

                       

                      We don't need the "OBI" -- if you come up US Rt. #01 from the track to the main light where you would turn left for the short downhill run to the the "Old Brick Inn" -- instead turn right at the big light and go up the hill to the "Top of the Hill" tavern -- same sort of establishment - farmers lawyers doctors senators representatives from the US and Maryland legislatures judges and policemen - The "Top of the Hill" pre dates the "OBI" and is a little more sedate - decent bar food too

                       

                      Cheers,

                      sam


                      From: donaldfrye@...
                      To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:51:17 PM
                      Subject: Re: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                       

                      Well, if we can't rehab the track, how about rehabing OBI?  Last I saw of the building it was a landscaping office or such.  We could rebuild it to what it once was and, then, hold regular reunions to remember Marlboro events in ways that they never happened.

                      But that's the way it is with a bunch of old guys.

                      Cheers and best wishes.

                      Don
                       
                       
                      On 03/04/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:
                       
                       

                      Hi Steve & Nick,

                       

                      I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup event dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track but ran into a wall of resistence from the local community/county and town governments - He was told NO every way possible -- I drive by twice a day -- most of Marlboro is still there crumbling away under small trees and brush -- Local developer successful developer Al Turner tried the same thing 20 plus years ago -- and was told "NO" as well - the townies were very happy that the track "died" despite the fact that it put them on the map

                       

                      Regards,

                      sam smith <Marlboro resident from 59 to 71>

                       



                       


                      From: "Stephen Lloyd" <slloydmarlboro@...>
                      To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:55:30 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                       

                      Nick,
                      I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.
                       
                      Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.
                       
                      It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in more than just racing) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos, but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...
                       
                      In any case, thanks for the kind words.
                      Steve Lloyd, Historian
                      Washington DC Region, SCCA

                      From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
                      To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                       
                      Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com"
                       
                      When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.
                       
                      This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.
                       
                      In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".
                       
                      So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!
                       
                      Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
                      Nick England

                       
                      On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:
                       
                      It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked



                    • Donnie
                      Sedate, Sam? Sounds boring. That wasn t the OBI or the Wason s I rember. I seem to remember them as a bit rowdy. Didn t we get bared from OBI for being too
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 5, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sedate, Sam? Sounds boring. That wasn't the OBI or the Wason's I rember. I seem to remember them as a bit rowdy. Didn't we get bared from OBI for being too roedy? Wasn't that why we switched watering holes?

                        T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network

                        Sam_Smith01@... wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        >Hi Don,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >We don't need the "OBI" -- if you come up US Rt. #01 from the track to the main light where you would turn left for the short downhill run to  the the "Old Brick Inn" -- instead turn right at the big light  and go up the hill to the "Top of the Hill" tavern -- same sort of establishment - farmers lawyers doctors senators representatives from the US and Maryland legislatures  judges and policemen - The "T op of the Hill" pre dates the "OBI" and is a little more sedate - decent bar food too
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Cheers,
                        >
                        >sam
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >----- Original Message -----
                        >
                        >
                        >From: donaldfrye@...
                        >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:51:17 PM
                        >Subject: Re: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                        >

                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Well, if we can't rehab the track, how about rehabing OBI?  Last I saw of the building it was a landscaping office or such.  We could rebuild it to what it once was and, then, hold regular reunions to remember Marlboro events in ways that they never happened.
                        >
                        >But that's the way it is with a bunch of old guys.
                        >
                        >Cheers and best wishes.
                        >
                        >Don
                        >


                        >On 03/04/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:


                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Hi Steve & Nick,
                        >

                        >
                        >I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup event dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track but ran into a wall of resistence from the local community/county and town governments - He was told NO every way possible -- I drive by twice a day -- most of Marlboro is still there crumbling away under small trees and brush -- Local developer successful developer Al Turner tried the same thing 20 plus years ago -- and was told "NO" as well - the townies were very happy that the track "died" despite the fact that it put them on the map
                        >

                        >
                        >Regards,
                        >
                        >sam smith <Marlboro resident from 59 to 71>
                        >

                        >
                        >
                        >

                        >
                        >----- Original Message -----
                        >
                        >
                        >From: "Stephen Lloyd" <slloydmarlboro@...>
                        >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:55:30 AM
                        >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                        >

                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Nick,
                        >I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.

                        >Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.

                        >It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in more than just racing ) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos , but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...

                        >In any case, thanks for the kind words.
                        >Steve Lloyd, Historian
                        >Washington DC Region, SCCA
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
                        >To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                        >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
                        >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        >
                        >Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com "

                        >When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.

                        >This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.

                        >In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".

                        >So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!

                        >Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
                        >Nick England
                        >www.virhistory.com
                        >

                        >On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll < sknoll@... > wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        >It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Robert Hines
                        I remember one Saturday night we went to the OBI and it was mostly full of motorcycle guys and after about 15 to 20 minutes they all left.  Rowdy, not us,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 5, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I remember one Saturday night we went to the OBI and it was mostly full of motorcycle guys and after about 15 to 20 minutes they all left.  Rowdy, not us, just noisy.
                          Bob

                          From: Donnie <gtracer66@...>
                          To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 3:56 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                           
                          Sedate, Sam? Sounds boring. That wasn't the OBI or the Wason's I rember. I seem to remember them as a bit rowdy. Didn't we get bared from OBI for being too roedy? Wasn't that why we switched watering holes?

                          T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network

                          Sam_Smith01@... wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          >Hi Don,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >We don't need the "OBI" -- if you come up US Rt. #01 from the track to the main light where you would turn left for the short downhill run to  the the "Old Brick Inn" -- instead turn right at the big light  and go up the hill to the "Top of the Hill" tavern -- same sort of establishment - farmers lawyers doctors senators representatives from the US and Maryland legislatures  judges and policemen - The "T op of the Hill" pre dates the "OBI" and is a little
                          more sedate - decent bar food too
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Cheers,
                          >
                          >sam
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >----- Original Message -----
                          >
                          >
                          >From: donaldfrye@...
                          >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:51:17 PM
                          >Subject: Re: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                          >

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Well, if we can't rehab the track, how about rehabing OBI?  Last I saw of the building it was a landscaping office or such.  We could rebuild it to what it once was and, then, hold
                          regular reunions to remember Marlboro events in ways that they never happened.
                          >
                          >But that's the way it is with a bunch of old guys.
                          >
                          >Cheers and best wishes.
                          >
                          >Don
                          >


                          >On 03/04/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:


                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Hi Steve & Nick,
                          >

                          >
                          >I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup event dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track but ran into a wall of resistence from the local community/county and town governments - He was told NO every way possible -- I drive by twice a day -- most of Marlboro is still there crumbling away under small trees and brush -- Local developer
                          successful developer Al Turner tried the same thing 20 plus years ago -- and was told "NO" as well - the townies were very happy that the track "died" despite the fact that it put them on the map
                          >

                          >
                          >Regards,
                          >
                          >sam smith <Marlboro resident from 59 to 71>
                          >

                          >
                          >
                          >

                          >
                          >----- Original Message -----
                          >
                          >
                          >From: "Stephen Lloyd" <slloydmarlboro@...>
                          >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:55:30 AM
                          >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like
                          firing a shot over the bow?
                          >

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Nick,
                          >I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.

                          >Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.

                          >It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in
                          more than just racing ) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos , but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...

                          >In any case, thanks for the kind words.
                          >Steve Lloyd, Historian
                          >Washington DC Region, SCCA
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
                          >To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                          >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
                          >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          >
                          >Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these
                          photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com "

                          >When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so
                          I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.

                          >This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.

                          >In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972
                          photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".

                          >So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!

                          >Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
                          >Nick England
                          >www.virhistory.com
                          >

                          >On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll < sknoll@... > wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          >It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                        • Sam_Smith01@comcast.net
                          Don and Bob, By way of full disclosure -- I was pretty much a teetotaler until several years after Marlboro Closed -- only went in the OBI to buy beer for my
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 5, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Don and Bob,

                             

                            By way of full disclosure -- I was pretty much a teetotaler until several years after Marlboro Closed -- only went in the OBI to buy beer for my not looking as old as I did friends - I was never refused :) So my stories are only second hand from the Old Brick Inn -- my dad ran the AA meeting in town at the Episcopal Church

                            What about "five o'clock Bob"?

                             

                            sam


                            From: "Robert Hines" <racerbob4@...>
                            To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 7:26:08 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                             

                            I remember one Saturday night we went to the OBI and it was mostly full of motorcycle guys and after about 15 to 20 minutes they all left.  Rowdy, not us, just noisy.
                            Bob

                            From: Donnie <gtracer66@...>
                            To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 3:56 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                             
                            Sedate, Sam? Sounds boring. That wasn't the OBI or the Wason's I rember. I seem to remember them as a bit rowdy. Didn't we get bared from OBI for being too roedy? Wasn't that why we switched watering holes?

                            T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network

                            Sam_Smith01@... wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            >Hi Don,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >We don't need the "OBI" -- if you come up US Rt. #01 from the track to the main light where you would turn left for the short downhill run to  the the "Old Brick Inn" -- instead turn right at the big light  and go up the hill to the "Top of the Hill" tavern -- same sort of establishment - farmers lawyers doctors senators representatives from the US and Maryland legislatures  judges and policemen - The "T op of the Hill" pre dates the "OBI" and is a little more sedate - decent bar food too
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Cheers,
                            >
                            >sam
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >----- Original Message -----
                            >
                            >
                            >From: donaldfrye@...
                            >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                            >Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:51:17 PM
                            >Subject: Re: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                            >

                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Well, if we can't rehab the track, how about rehabing OBI?  Last I saw of the building it was a landscaping office or such.  We could rebuild it to what it once was and, then, hold regular reunions to remember Marlboro events in ways that they never happened.
                            >
                            >But that's the way it is with a bunch of old guys.
                            >
                            >Cheers and best wishes.
                            >
                            >Don
                            >


                            >On 03/04/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:


                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Hi Steve & Nick,
                            >

                            >
                            >I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup event dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track but ran into a wall of resistence from the local community/county and town governments - He was told NO every way possible -- I drive by twice a day -- most of Marlboro is still there crumbling away under small trees and brush -- Local developer successful developer Al Turner tried the same thing 20 plus years ago -- and was told "NO" as well - the townies were very happy that the track "died" despite the fact that it put them on the map
                            >

                            >
                            >Regards,
                            >
                            >sam smith <Marlboro resident from 59 to 71>
                            >

                            >
                            >
                            >

                            >
                            >----- Original Message -----
                            >
                            >
                            >From: "Stephen Lloyd" <slloydmarlboro@...>
                            >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                            >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:55:30 AM
                            >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                            >

                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Nick,
                            >I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.

                            >Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.

                            >It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in more than just racing ) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos , but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...

                            >In any case, thanks for the kind words.
                            >Steve Lloyd, Historian
                            >Washington DC Region, SCCA
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
                            >To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                            >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
                            >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            >
                            >Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com "

                            >When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.

                            >This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.

                            >In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".

                            >So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!

                            >Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
                            >Nick England
                            >www.virhistory.com
                            >

                            >On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll < sknoll@... > wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            >It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                          • donaldfrye@verizon.net
                            I vote for the OBI. Don t you guys believe in tradition? And we, old guys, can still be rowdy. Why, if those motorcycle guys show up, we can beat em off with
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 6, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I vote for the OBI.  Don't you guys believe in tradition?

                              And we, old guys, can still be rowdy.  Why, if those motorcycle guys show up, we can beat 'em off with our walkers.

                              Cheers.

                              Don
                               
                               
                              On 03/05/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:
                               
                               

                              Don and Bob,

                               

                              By way of full disclosure -- I was pretty much a teetotaler until several years after Marlboro Closed -- only went in the OBI to buy beer for my not looking as old as I did friends - I was never refused :) So my stories are only second hand from the Old Brick Inn -- my dad ran the AA meeting in town at the Episcopal Church

                              What about "five o'clock Bob"?

                               

                              sam


                              From: "Robert Hines" <racerbob4@...>
                              To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 7:26:08 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                               

                              I remember one Saturday night we went to the OBI and it was mostly full of motorcycle guys and after about 15 to 20 minutes they all left.  Rowdy, not us, just noisy.
                              Bob

                              From: Donnie <gtracer66@...>
                              To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 3:56 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                               
                              Sedate, Sam? Sounds boring. That wasn't the OBI or the Wason's I rember. I seem to remember them as a bit rowdy. Didn't we get bared from OBI for being too roedy? Wasn't that why we switched watering holes?

                              T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network

                              Sam_Smith01@... wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              >Hi Don,
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >We don't need the "OBI" -- if you come up US Rt. #01 from the track to the main light where you would turn left for the short downhill run to  the the "Old Brick Inn" -- instead turn right at the big light  and go up the hill to the "Top of the Hill" tavern -- same sort of establishment - farmers lawyers doctors senators representatives from the US and Maryland legislatures  judges and policemen - The "T op of the Hill" pre dates the "OBI" and is a little more sedate - decent bar food too
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Cheers,
                              >
                              >sam
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >----- Original Message -----
                              >
                              >
                              >From: donaldfrye@...
                              >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                              >Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:51:17 PM
                              >Subject: Re: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                              >

                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Well, if we can't rehab the track, how about rehabing OBI?  Last I saw of the building it was a landscaping office or such.  We could rebuild it to what it once was and, then, hold regular reunions to remember Marlboro events in ways that they never happened.
                              >
                              >But that's the way it is with a bunch of old guys.
                              >
                              >Cheers and best wishes.
                              >
                              >Don
                              >


                              >On 03/04/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:


                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Hi Steve & Nick,
                              >

                              >
                              >I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup event dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track but ran into a wall of resistence from the local community/county and town governments - He was told NO every way possible -- I drive by twice a day -- most of Marlboro is still there crumbling away under small trees and brush -- Local developer successful developer Al Turner tried the same thing 20 plus years ago -- and was told "NO" as well - the townies were very happy that the track "died" despite the fact that it put them on the map
                              >

                              >
                              >Regards,
                              >
                              >sam smith <Marlboro resident from 59 to 71>
                              >

                              >
                              >
                              >

                              >
                              >----- Original Message -----
                              >
                              >
                              >From: "Stephen Lloyd" <slloydmarlboro@...>
                              >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                              >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:55:30 AM
                              >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                              >

                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Nick,
                              >I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.

                              >Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.

                              >It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in more than just racing ) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos , but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...

                              >In any case, thanks for the kind words.
                              >Steve Lloyd, Historian
                              >Washington DC Region, SCCA
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
                              >To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                              >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
                              >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              >
                              >Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com "

                              >When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.

                              >This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.

                              >In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".

                              >So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!

                              >Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
                              >Nick England
                              >www.virhistory.com
                              >

                              >On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll < sknoll@... > wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              >It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                            • Don Haines
                              I m with you Don. We may have gotten older but you re only as old as you think you are (and your joints say you are). I guess I m lucky as I don t need a
                              Message 14 of 14 , Mar 6, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I'm with you Don. We may have gotten older but you're only as old as you think you are (and your joints say you are).  I guess I'm lucky as I don't need a walker, cane or anything.  In fact in the past 3 years, having meet someone a lot younger, I can do stuff I couldn't even do back when we were at Marlboro.  Like I could never swim back then. She has taught me to swim, snorkel and I've lost so much weight that I can actually run again. If I"d have laid off the cheeseburgers and Pizza years ago, my heart would be up to going back to racing again.   Politics aside, I'm following Newt's model of having a younger person in my life.  Newt is my age and my friend is Calista's age.  So far it's working.  If I hadn't met her, I'd probably be sitting in a bar in Florida waiting to croak.  Now I plan to live forever.  So far it's working LOL.

                                Don Haines
                                808-989-0047

                                Visit my Flickr site at:

                                http://www.flickr.com/photos/42079599@N02/sets/


                                 



                                To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                                From: donaldfrye@...
                                Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 09:09:50 -0600
                                Subject: Re: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                                 

                                I vote for the OBI.  Don't you guys believe in tradition?

                                And we, old guys, can still be rowdy.  Why, if those motorcycle guys show up, we can beat 'em off with our walkers.

                                Cheers.

                                Don
                                 
                                 
                                On 03/05/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:
                                 
                                 

                                Don and Bob,
                                 
                                By way of full disclosure -- I was pretty much a teetotaler until several years after Marlboro Closed -- only went in the OBI to buy beer for my not looking as old as I did friends - I was never refused :) So my stories are only second hand from the Old Brick Inn -- my dad ran the AA meeting in town at the Episcopal Church

                                What about "five o'clock Bob"?
                                 
                                sam


                                From: "Robert Hines" <racerbob4@...>
                                To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 7:26:08 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                                 

                                I remember one Saturday night we went to the OBI and it was mostly full of motorcycle guys and after about 15 to 20 minutes they all left.  Rowdy, not us, just noisy.
                                Bob

                                From: Donnie <gtracer66@...>
                                To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 3:56 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?

                                 
                                Sedate, Sam? Sounds boring. That wasn't the OBI or the Wason's I rember. I seem to remember them as a bit rowdy. Didn't we get bared from OBI for being too roedy? Wasn't that why we switched watering holes?

                                T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network

                                Sam_Smith01@... wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                >Hi Don,
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >We don't need the "OBI" -- if you come up US Rt. #01 from the track to the main light where you would turn left for the short downhill run to  the the "Old Brick Inn" -- instead turn right at the big light  and go up the hill to the "Top of the Hill" tavern -- same sort of establishment - farmers lawyers doctors senators representatives from the US and Maryland legislatures  judges and policemen - The "T op of the Hill" pre dates the "OBI" and is a little more sedate - decent bar food too
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Cheers,
                                >
                                >sam
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >----- Original Message -----
                                >
                                >
                                >From: donaldfrye@...
                                >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                                >Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:51:17 PM
                                >Subject: Re: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                                >

                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Well, if we can't rehab the track, how about rehabing OBI?  Last I saw of the building it was a landscaping office or such.  We could rebuild it to what it once was and, then, hold regular reunions to remember Marlboro events in ways that they never happened.
                                >
                                >But that's the way it is with a bunch of old guys.
                                >
                                >Cheers and best wishes.
                                >
                                >Don
                                >


                                >On 03/04/12, Sam_Smith01@... wrote:


                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Hi Steve & Nick,
                                >

                                >
                                >I talked with Harvey at last years Gold Cup event dinner -- Harvey said he tried to work a deal to get an option to open the track but ran into a wall of resistence from the local community/county and town governments - He was told NO every way possible -- I drive by twice a day -- most of Marlboro is still there crumbling away under small trees and brush -- Local developer successful developer Al Turner tried the same thing 20 plus years ago -- and was told "NO" as well - the townies were very happy that the track "died" despite the fact that it put them on the map
                                >

                                >
                                >Regards,
                                >
                                >sam smith <Marlboro resident from 59 to 71>
                                >

                                >
                                >
                                >

                                >
                                >----- Original Message -----
                                >
                                >
                                >From: "Stephen Lloyd" <slloydmarlboro@...>
                                >To: "Marlboro Raceway" <Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com>
                                >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:55:30 AM
                                >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                                >

                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Nick,
                                >I wish I had a dollar for each hour I've poured over your fine work about VIR!  Did Harvey Seigel redevelop VIR because of your site? It certainly wouldn't surprise me. Any chance we can tempt him to consider Marlboro for restoration??? He probably took one look at it now and realized it's pretty hopeless.

                                >Steve Knoll and I were inspired by your VIR site when we began our Marlboro Group several years ago. We appreciate your kind words, believe me. Let's hope that those who would pirate photos and the like will begin to understand how unfair, and perhaps even illegal, their practices are. But in the balance, I'd have to agree we have brought a number of smiles.

                                >It's my hope that when more of the Washington DC Region, SCCA learns of their rich history (at Marlboro and elsewhere, and in more than just racing ) they may find the funding to permit us a website where we can not only share many of these photos , but also videos. Perhaps when our economy recovers...

                                >In any case, thanks for the kind words.
                                >Steve Lloyd, Historian
                                >Washington DC Region, SCCA
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >From: Nick England <navy.radio@...>
                                >To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                                >Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 8:45 AM
                                >Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] arrghhh mateys... pirates ahoy, anyone feel like firing a shot over the bow?
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                >
                                >Thanks, Steve - I've corresponded with a few of these photo-posters over the years. One guy was on eBay selling prints of photos from my VIR History site and IIRC added attribution when I prodded him about it. Many folks are of the "if it's posted on the internet it has to be free to all" philosophy, but were just into it as a hobby and lovers of old cars and racing. I figure that even though it is illegal, there was no real harm done, and it'd be futile to try to stop it. So mostly I just asked them to feel a little ashamed and to add the photographer's name and "courtesy of www.virhistory.com "

                                >When I got photos for my site, I told people it was to document and publicize the history of VIR so I've always felt I had permission to share with magazines, books, web sites, etc. that furthered that purpose in some way (whenever possible I've made sure publications contact the original photographer for permission). I haven't got anything from professional photographers on there so I've always been willing to give permission to those who ask for it (and there are some great sites out there) and to let slide those who don't.

                                >This current problem-maker on fokti is a real jerk for not crediting the sources or responding honestly, but it appears from his site that he is a hobbyist and model-builder, not a desperado, and from his guestbook you can see that some modelers and other fans really appreciate his collecting all these photos on his site. So yeah, people are wrong to do this, but I figure that's just one of inevitable minor drawbacks of the huge benefits of making these historical photos available to the whole world via the web.

                                >In the balance of things, no pest like this guy cancome anywhere close to outweighing the pleasure created by e-mail I got from the guy who'd only ever seen a blurry newspaper photo of his IMSA Camaro until he found razor sharp 1972 photos on my site, or from the guy who can now repaint his Trans Am Alfa exactly the way it was in 1966, or from the daughter who wrote "Dad passed away when we were very young and we had heard about his racing, but we'd never seen a photo of him and his car until now".

                                >So, trust me, the good karma you guys have built up documenting Marlboro, scanning all these great photos, and sharing them with the world is simply tremendous - you have created tens of thousands of smiles and great recollections and nothing anyone else does can tarnish that one tiny bit. Thanks!

                                >Just my personal 2 cents worth after scanning a few thousand photos
                                >Nick England
                                >www.virhistory.com
                                >

                                >On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Steve Knoll < sknoll@... > wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                >It is full of images from the VIR history site as well.... I know Nick is generous with the images, he has given me permission to use some on occasion, but I'm sure this guy has never asked
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >




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