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Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"

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  • Jim Karamanis
    I m a lurker on here as well as a vintage racer. Tony, it is really exciting to read your posts. Thank you so much for sharing your recollection of the glory
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 18, 2010
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      I'm a lurker on here as well as a vintage racer. Tony, it is really exciting to read your posts. Thank you so much for sharing your recollection of the glory days. The same goes for all of the rest of you who were there "back in the day"!

      Speaking of the glory days, here is the set of videos that you mention. Dave Despain did a series on ESPN called "Cougar Caper" and it has the footage you speak of:

      Part 1:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM

      Part 2:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVp5LZN-ksk

      Part 3:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TexJQfWCM1Q

      Happy Holidays!

      Jim Karamanis
      ELBRacing http://elbracing.com
      The Delmarva Cougar Club http://dcconline.org


      From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
      To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 1:06:12 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"

       

      Greetings All Trans Am aficionados,

       I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
      ever
      !!!

      I was proud to share the drive in the very first Win for the Group 44 Dodge Dart at Sebring, home of the first SCCA Trans Am race. To prove the point further Bob and I won the 1966 Marlboro 12 hr Trans Am Race, the first time an American car won the event.

      For those who recall, Bob Tullius stole away the first 1967 race at Daytona with the aging Group 44 Dodge Dart from the much taunted Cougar Team of Parnelli Jones and Dan Gurney. I was proud to take a victory lap in the Dodge Dart along with the rest of the team at Daytona. It was a HUGE Win for Group 44 inc. Unfortunately Chrysler Corporation never really capitaluized on this great win of the 67 season.

       You Tube has the great video, perhaps Steve may actually have the link for this race.

      Always underrated with a smaller 273 cu in engine, the Group 44 Dart was never properly funded by Dodge- Chrysler Corporation to continue the quest for the 66 Dodge Dart.  Had this happened who knows what the outcome would have been. I can say that the Torsion bar front suspension  was key factor in the superior handling of the Group 44 Dodge Dart. This feature set it apart from the rest of the competition.

      " Keeping the Legends Alive "

      a2z

      "If you CAN dream it,
      It WILL happen "


      --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:

      From: Steve Knoll <sknoll@...>
      Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
      To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 9:43 AM

       


      All three parts are very good if you're a fan of Trans Am racing.
      >
      > Mike
      >

      Hi Mike,

      Part 1

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM

      In which Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler, ever

      I hope you include this car in your sim

      I have been planning on making a feature of the best photos of the track for some time, though I will wait thill I've finished scanning the 1969 photos to do so

      Even so, we have many good photos posted in the photo section. Please don't hesitate to get in touch with me of you have needs

      I will not email photos, but I will post them in the photo section. I think I'll start an album just on the track shortly, consolidating some photos I've already posted elsewhere & adding more as time goes on

      I hope you do a great job with the sim

      There is another one that I used to create a virtual lap of Marlbor in an F1 Eagle with help from John King & the author of the Simm, whose name escapes me for the moment, but who is a member of this group. (Sorry}

      I'll repost the lap on www.laprecord.com sometime this weekend & post an announcement here

      You will find a photo essay of the 1967 Daytona Trans Am with plenty of pictures of Marlboro regulars here:

      http://www.laprecord.com/Part-323/Pt-Index.htm


    • Andrew Sturgess
      Damn, I miss those days. Too bad the manufacturers aren t currently in a position to capitalize on brand loyalty. Stock-looking muscle cars bellowing and
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 18, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Damn, I miss those days. Too bad the manufacturers aren't currently in a position to capitalize on brand loyalty. Stock-looking muscle cars bellowing and thundering around the track again, green be damned! Make the inspection process loose so that Penske can acid dip without consequence. Encourage creative solutions to problems. We need a series like that, although I would ban all the Porsche 911 derivatives. (Sorry) Great car, but if I have seen one of those racing, I've seen a million.
        Oh well, we can dream can't we?
         
        Seasons greetings to all! 
        Andrew


        From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
        To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 1:06:12 PM
        Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"

         

        Greetings All Trans Am aficionados,

         I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
        ever
        !!!

        I was proud to share the drive in the very first Win for the Group 44 Dodge Dart at Sebring, home of the first SCCA Trans Am race. To prove the point further Bob and I won the 1966 Marlboro 12 hr Trans Am Race, the first time an American car won the event.

        For those who recall, Bob Tullius stole away the first 1967 race at Daytona with the aging Group 44 Dodge Dart from the much taunted Cougar Team of Parnelli Jones and Dan Gurney. I was proud to take a victory lap in the Dodge Dart along with the rest of the team at Daytona. It was a HUGE Win for Group 44 inc. Unfortunately Chrysler Corporation never really capitaluized on this great win of the 67 season.

         You Tube has the great video, perhaps Steve may actually have the link for this race.

        Always underrated with a smaller 273 cu in engine, the Group 44 Dart was never properly funded by Dodge- Chrysler Corporation to continue the quest for the 66 Dodge Dart.  Had this happened who knows what the outcome would have been. I can say that the Torsion bar front suspension  was key factor in the superior handling of the Group 44 Dodge Dart. This feature set it apart from the rest of the competition.

        " Keeping the Legends Alive "

        a2z

        "If you CAN dream it,
        It WILL happen "


        --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:

        From: Steve Knoll <sknoll@...>
        Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
        To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 9:43 AM

         


        All three parts are very good if you're a fan of Trans Am racing.
        >
        > Mike
        >

        Hi Mike,

        Part 1

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM

        In which Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler, ever

        I hope you include this car in your sim

        I have been planning on making a feature of the best photos of the track for some time, though I will wait thill I've finished scanning the 1969 photos to do so

        Even so, we have many good photos posted in the photo section. Please don't hesitate to get in touch with me of you have needs

        I will not email photos, but I will post them in the photo section. I think I'll start an album just on the track shortly, consolidating some photos I've already posted elsewhere & adding more as time goes on

        I hope you do a great job with the sim

        There is another one that I used to create a virtual lap of Marlbor in an F1 Eagle with help from John King & the author of the Simm, whose name escapes me for the moment, but who is a member of this group. (Sorry}

        I'll repost the lap on www.laprecord.com sometime this weekend & post an announcement here

        You will find a photo essay of the 1967 Daytona Trans Am with plenty of pictures of Marlboro regulars here:

        http://www.laprecord.com/Part-323/Pt-Index.htm


      • Tony Adamowicz
        Jim, Great hearing from you  thank you for the added 3 part links and compliments. It was an honor to have raced back in the day with Group 44 inc. It was
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 18, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Jim,
          Great hearing from you  thank you for the added 3 part links and compliments. It was an honor to have raced back in the day with Group 44 inc. It was great racing , the excitement was there in Trans Am cars,.

          Steve Knoll has some great period photos on his site www.laprecord.com

          Best to you and yours, with Holiday Cheer to all  !!!  Stay Well in the New Year for more period racing.....back in the days....

          " Keeping the Legends Alive "

          Cheers !  Tony a2z Racer

          "If you CAN dream it,
          It WILL happen "


          --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Jim Karamanis <jimk@...> wrote:

          From: Jim Karamanis <jimk@...>
          Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
          To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 12:32 PM

           

          I'm a lurker on here as well as a vintage racer. Tony, it is really exciting to read your posts. Thank you so much for sharing your recollection of the glory days. The same goes for all of the rest of you who were there "back in the day"!

          Speaking of the glory days, here is the set of videos that you mention. Dave Despain did a series on ESPN called "Cougar Caper" and it has the footage you speak of:

          Part 1:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM

          Part 2:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVp5LZN-ksk

          Part 3:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TexJQfWCM1Q

          Happy Holidays!

          Jim Karamanis
          ELBRacing http://elbracing.com
          The Delmarva Cougar Club http://dcconline.org


          From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
          To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 1:06:12 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"

           

          Greetings All Trans Am aficionados,

           I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
          ever
          !!!

          I was proud to share the drive in the very first Win for the Group 44 Dodge Dart at Sebring, home of the first SCCA Trans Am race. To prove the point further Bob and I won the 1966 Marlboro 12 hr Trans Am Race, the first time an American car won the event.

          For those who recall, Bob Tullius stole away the first 1967 race at Daytona with the aging Group 44 Dodge Dart from the much taunted Cougar Team of Parnelli Jones and Dan Gurney. I was proud to take a victory lap in the Dodge Dart along with the rest of the team at Daytona. It was a HUGE Win for Group 44 inc. Unfortunately Chrysler Corporation never really capitaluized on this great win of the 67 season.

           You Tube has the great video, perhaps Steve may actually have the link for this race.

          Always underrated with a smaller 273 cu in engine, the Group 44 Dart was never properly funded by Dodge- Chrysler Corporation to continue the quest for the 66 Dodge Dart.  Had this happened who knows what the outcome would have been. I can say that the Torsion bar front suspension  was key factor in the superior handling of the Group 44 Dodge Dart. This feature set it apart from the rest of the competition.

          " Keeping the Legends Alive "

          a2z

          "If you CAN dream it,
          It WILL happen "


          --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:

          From: Steve Knoll <sknoll@...>
          Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
          To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 9:43 AM

           


          All three parts are very good if you're a fan of Trans Am racing.
          >
          > Mike
          >

          Hi Mike,

          Part 1

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM

          In which Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler, ever

          I hope you include this car in your sim

          I have been planning on making a feature of the best photos of the track for some time, though I will wait thill I've finished scanning the 1969 photos to do so

          Even so, we have many good photos posted in the photo section. Please don't hesitate to get in touch with me of you have needs

          I will not email photos, but I will post them in the photo section. I think I'll start an album just on the track shortly, consolidating some photos I've already posted elsewhere & adding more as time goes on

          I hope you do a great job with the sim

          There is another one that I used to create a virtual lap of Marlbor in an F1 Eagle with help from John King & the author of the Simm, whose name escapes me for the moment, but who is a member of this group. (Sorry}

          I'll repost the lap on www.laprecord.com sometime this weekend & post an announcement here

          You will find a photo essay of the 1967 Daytona Trans Am with plenty of pictures of Marlboro regulars here:

          http://www.laprecord.com/Part-323/Pt-Index.htm



        • Tony Adamowicz
          Yes indeed Dreams are made of this Keeping the Legends Alive a2z ... From: Andrew Sturgess Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re:
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 18, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes indeed Dreams are made of this

            " Keeping the Legends Alive "

            a2z





            --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Andrew Sturgess <ajyes72@...> wrote:

            From: Andrew Sturgess <ajyes72@...>
            Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
            To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 3:28 PM

             

            Damn, I miss those days. Too bad the manufacturers aren't currently in a position to capitalize on brand loyalty. Stock-looking muscle cars bellowing and thundering around the track again, green be damned! Make the inspection process loose so that Penske can acid dip without consequence. Encourage creative solutions to problems. We need a series like that, although I would ban all the Porsche 911 derivatives. (Sorry) Great car, but if I have seen one of those racing, I've seen a million.
            Oh well, we can dream can't we?
             
            Seasons greetings to all! 
            Andrew


            From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
            To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 1:06:12 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"

             

            Greetings All Trans Am aficionados,

             I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
            ever
            !!!

            I was proud to share the drive in the very first Win for the Group 44 Dodge Dart at Sebring, home of the first SCCA Trans Am race. To prove the point further Bob and I won the 1966 Marlboro 12 hr Trans Am Race, the first time an American car won the event.

            For those who recall, Bob Tullius stole away the first 1967 race at Daytona with the aging Group 44 Dodge Dart from the much taunted Cougar Team of Parnelli Jones and Dan Gurney. I was proud to take a victory lap in the Dodge Dart along with the rest of the team at Daytona. It was a HUGE Win for Group 44 inc. Unfortunately Chrysler Corporation never really capitaluized on this great win of the 67 season.

             You Tube has the great video, perhaps Steve may actually have the link for this race.

            Always underrated with a smaller 273 cu in engine, the Group 44 Dart was never properly funded by Dodge- Chrysler Corporation to continue the quest for the 66 Dodge Dart.  Had this happened who knows what the outcome would have been. I can say that the Torsion bar front suspension  was key factor in the superior handling of the Group 44 Dodge Dart. This feature set it apart from the rest of the competition.

            " Keeping the Legends Alive "

            a2z

            "If you CAN dream it,
            It WILL happen "


            --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:

            From: Steve Knoll <sknoll@...>
            Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
            To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 9:43 AM

             


            All three parts are very good if you're a fan of Trans Am racing.
            >
            > Mike
            >

            Hi Mike,

            Part 1

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM

            In which Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler, ever

            I hope you include this car in your sim

            I have been planning on making a feature of the best photos of the track for some time, though I will wait thill I've finished scanning the 1969 photos to do so

            Even so, we have many good photos posted in the photo section. Please don't hesitate to get in touch with me of you have needs

            I will not email photos, but I will post them in the photo section. I think I'll start an album just on the track shortly, consolidating some photos I've already posted elsewhere & adding more as time goes on

            I hope you do a great job with the sim

            There is another one that I used to create a virtual lap of Marlbor in an F1 Eagle with help from John King & the author of the Simm, whose name escapes me for the moment, but who is a member of this group. (Sorry}

            I'll repost the lap on www.laprecord.com sometime this weekend & post an announcement here

            You will find a photo essay of the 1967 Daytona Trans Am with plenty of pictures of Marlboro regulars here:

            http://www.laprecord.com/Part-323/Pt-Index.htm



          • GLWannarka@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/18/2010 6:53:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, a2z_racer@yahoo.com writes: Just as a matter of curiosity, are there many of these cars from
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 18, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 12/18/2010 6:53:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, a2z_racer@... writes:
               
              Just as a matter of curiosity, are there many of these cars from the 1965 - 1990 era still around?  Are they running in vintage, in museums or garages, collecting dust, trashed?
              Jerry Wannarka
               

              Yes indeed Dreams are made of this

              " Keeping the Legends Alive "

              a2z





              --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Andrew Sturgess <ajyes72@...> wrote:

              From: Andrew Sturgess <ajyes72@...>
              Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
              To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 3:28 PM

               

              Damn, I miss those days. Too bad the manufacturers aren't currently in a position to capitalize on brand loyalty. Stock-looking muscle cars bellowing and thundering around the track again, green be damned! Make the inspection process loose so that Penske can acid dip without consequence. Encourage creative solutions to problems. We need a series like that, although I would ban all the Porsche 911 derivatives. (Sorry) Great car, but if I have seen one of those racing, I've seen a million.
              Oh well, we can dream can't we?
               
              Seasons greetings to all! 
              Andrew


              From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
              To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 1:06:12 PM
              Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"

               

              Greetings All Trans Am aficionados,

               I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
              ever
              !!!

              I was proud to share the drive in the very first Win for the Group 44 Dodge Dart at Sebring, home of the first SCCA Trans Am race. To prove the point further Bob and I won the 1966 Marlboro 12 hr Trans Am Race, the first time an American car won the event.

              For those who recall, Bob Tullius stole away the first 1967 race at Daytona with the aging Group 44 Dodge Dart from the much taunted Cougar Team of Parnelli Jones and Dan Gurney. I was proud to take a victory lap in the Dodge Dart along with the rest of the team at Daytona. It was a HUGE Win for Group 44 inc. Unfortunately Chrysler Corporation never really capitaluized on this great win of the 67 season.

               You Tube has the great video, perhaps Steve may actually have the link for this race.

              Always underrated with a smaller 273 cu in engine, the Group 44 Dart was never properly funded by Dodge- Chrysler Corporation to continue the quest for the 66 Dodge Dart.  Had this happened who knows what the outcome would have been. I can say that the Torsion bar front suspension  was key factor in the superior handling of the Group 44 Dodge Dart. This feature set it apart from the rest of the competition.

              " Keeping the Legends Alive "

              a2z

              "If you CAN dream it,
              It WILL happen "


              --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:

              From: Steve Knoll <sknoll@...>
              Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
              To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 9:43 AM

               


              All three parts are very good if you're a fan of Trans Am racing.
              >
              > Mike
              >

              Hi Mike,

              Part 1

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM

              In which Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler, ever

              I hope you include this car in your sim

              I have been planning on making a feature of the best photos of the track for some time, though I will wait thill I've finished scanning the 1969 photos to do so

              Even so, we have many good photos posted in the photo section. Please don't hesitate to get in touch with me of you have needs

              I will not email photos, but I will post them in the photo section. I think I'll start an album just on the track shortly, consolidating some photos I've already posted elsewhere & adding more as time goes on

              I hope you do a great job with the sim

              There is another one that I used to create a virtual lap of Marlbor in an F1 Eagle with help from John King & the author of the Simm, whose name escapes me for the moment, but who is a member of this group. (Sorry}

              I'll repost the lap on www.laprecord.com sometime this weekend & post an announcement here

              You will find a photo essay of the 1967 Daytona Trans Am with plenty of pictures of Marlboro regulars here:

              http://www.laprecord.com/Part-323/Pt-Index.htm



               
            • The Polimeni Clan
              Here s where all the surviving T/A cars are today. http://www.historictransam.com/homepage.htm Many of the U2 cars are restored and still running too as some
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 18, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Here's where all the surviving T/A cars are today.
                http://www.historictransam.com/homepage.htm
                Many of the U2 cars are restored and still running too as some of the
                photo's on this site will attest. Unfortunately my own T/A U2 Volvo
                122S was not so fortunate and only survived for a few seasons after I'd
                sold it. Still, it allowed me to be a part of that fantastic 1970 Trans
                Am season. An unforgettable experience. Ron P.
              • GLWannarka@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/18/2010 7:43:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, polimeni@frontiernet.net writes: Thanks Ron. Great to learn about this program. Jerry Here s
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 18, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 12/18/2010 7:43:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, polimeni@... writes:
                   
                  Thanks Ron.  Great to learn about this program.
                  Jerry
                   

                  Here's where all the surviving T/A cars are today.
                  http://www.historictransam.com/homepage.htm
                  Many of the U2 cars are restored and still running too as some of the
                  photo's on this site will attest. Unfortunately my own T/A U2 Volvo
                  122S was not so fortunate and only survived for a few seasons after I'd
                  sold it. Still, it allowed me to be a part of that fantastic 1970 Trans
                  Am season. An unforgettable experience. Ron P.

                   
                • Andrew Sturgess
                  For those that may need clarification about Penske acid dipping: One good story involves the Penske car’s vinyl roof. “Penske was acid-dipping his
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 18, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    For those that may need clarification about Penske acid dipping:
                     
                    "One good story involves the Penske car’s vinyl roof. “Penske was acid-dipping his body,” Piggins said, “and the sheetmetal got so thin that it got a lot of wrinkles in it. So to cover up the wrinkles, he put a vinyl top on it and tried to get away with that on the excuse that it made the car go faster according to our wind-tunnel testing. And when he said that we actually got a reduction in drag with the vinyl roof, that started a big rush of everybody putting vinyl tops on their Camaros."
                     
                    From an Automobile Quarterly article.


                    From: Andrew Sturgess <ajyes72@...>
                    To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 6:28:57 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"

                     

                    Damn, I miss those days. Too bad the manufacturers aren't currently in a position to capitalize on brand loyalty. Stock-looking muscle cars bellowing and thundering around the track again, green be damned! Make the inspection process loose so that Penske can acid dip without consequence. Encourage creative solutions to problems. We need a series like that, although I would ban all the Porsche 911 derivatives. (Sorry) Great car, but if I have seen one of those racing, I've seen a million.
                    Oh well, we can dream can't we?
                     
                    Seasons greetings to all! 
                    Andrew


                    From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
                    To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 1:06:12 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"

                     

                    Greetings All Trans Am aficionados,

                     I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
                    ever
                    !!!

                    I was proud to share the drive in the very first Win for the Group 44 Dodge Dart at Sebring, home of the first SCCA Trans Am race. To prove the point further Bob and I won the 1966 Marlboro 12 hr Trans Am Race, the first time an American car won the event.

                    For those who recall, Bob Tullius stole away the first 1967 race at Daytona with the aging Group 44 Dodge Dart from the much taunted Cougar Team of Parnelli Jones and Dan Gurney. I was proud to take a victory lap in the Dodge Dart along with the rest of the team at Daytona. It was a HUGE Win for Group 44 inc. Unfortunately Chrysler Corporation never really capitaluized on this great win of the 67 season.

                     You Tube has the great video, perhaps Steve may actually have the link for this race.

                    Always underrated with a smaller 273 cu in engine, the Group 44 Dart was never properly funded by Dodge- Chrysler Corporation to continue the quest for the 66 Dodge Dart.  Had this happened who knows what the outcome would have been. I can say that the Torsion bar front suspension  was key factor in the superior handling of the Group 44 Dodge Dart. This feature set it apart from the rest of the competition.

                    " Keeping the Legends Alive "

                    a2z

                    "If you CAN dream it,
                    It WILL happen "


                    --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Steve Knoll <sknoll@...> wrote:

                    From: Steve Knoll <sknoll@...>
                    Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and "Cougar Caper"
                    To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 9:43 AM

                     


                    All three parts are very good if you're a fan of Trans Am racing.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >

                    Hi Mike,

                    Part 1

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM

                    In which Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler, ever

                    I hope you include this car in your sim

                    I have been planning on making a feature of the best photos of the track for some time, though I will wait thill I've finished scanning the 1969 photos to do so

                    Even so, we have many good photos posted in the photo section. Please don't hesitate to get in touch with me of you have needs

                    I will not email photos, but I will post them in the photo section. I think I'll start an album just on the track shortly, consolidating some photos I've already posted elsewhere & adding more as time goes on

                    I hope you do a great job with the sim

                    There is another one that I used to create a virtual lap of Marlbor in an F1 Eagle with help from John King & the author of the Simm, whose name escapes me for the moment, but who is a member of this group. (Sorry}

                    I'll repost the lap on www.laprecord.com sometime this weekend & post an announcement here

                    You will find a photo essay of the 1967 Daytona Trans Am with plenty of pictures of Marlboro regulars here:

                    http://www.laprecord.com/Part-323/Pt-Index.htm


                  • Bob
                    ... Someone did an informal listing of the ex-Penske Sunoco Camaross, as driven by Donohue, Ed Leslie, Sam Posey and other usually overlooked drivers,
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 19, 2010
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                      On 12/18/2010 6:03 PM, GLWannarka@... wrote:
                      In a message dated 12/18/2010 6:53:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, a2z_racer@... writes:
                       
                      Just as a matter of curiosity, are there many of these cars from the 1965 - 1990 era still around?  Are they running in vintage, in museums or garages, collecting dust, trashed?
                      Jerry Wannarka+
                      Someone did an informal listing of the ex-Penske Sunoco Camaross, as driven by Donohue, Ed Leslie, Sam Posey and other usually overlooked drivers, indicates that there were something like 15 cars built, and unfortunately, no more than 111 of them still exist and are racing!



                      --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Andrew Sturgess <ajyes72@...> wrote:
                      Make the inspection process loose so that Penske can acid dip without consequence.

                      While Penske had the reputation EVERYONE from the factories acid dipped, especially the roofs to lower weight. Supposedly the reason for vinyl roofs on Camaros, Mustangs and Petty NASCAR Chargers to disguise the ripples. Lighter than filler and paint.
                      .

                      I would ban all the Porsche 911 derivatives.

                      IMHO, that was an embarrassing example of Porsche lobbying and SCCA stupidity. One contemporary magazine had a photo array showing examples of the Porsche 911 CP car, the 912 EP car, the 911R BSR car, the U2Liter Trans Am car, the Group 2 Rally car, and the 2 liter Endurance GT car .... and they just showed the same picture 6 times!

                       

                      From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
                      T


                       I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
                      ever
                      !!!

                      I showed up in the area in the late 60s, living right down the road from the Falls Church Gordon Road shop. Bob had sold the Dart to Ralph ? at Car World, a general repair show right around the corner, in the same strip of shops. He bought the car because it had a light weight acid dipped body, and converted it into a drag racer, and then sold it after racing for a while. I tracked it down to Zervakis' shop in the Richmond area, hoping it could be returned to the Trans Am configuraturation, but it had the wheelbase altered and had been wrecked with virtually all the light weight parts removed, and a 440 Magnam block installed.

                      Cheers, Bob
                    • Rick Mandelson
                      Bob Well said and that includes other forms of Vintage racing as well, especially Indy Roadsters sporting Alfa motors in lieu of Offy s. Rick
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 19, 2010
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                        Bob
                         
                        Well said and that includes other forms of Vintage racing as well, especially Indy Roadsters sporting Alfa motors in lieu of Offy's.
                         
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Bob
                        Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 12:01 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and comments on the era

                         



                        On 12/18/2010 6:03 PM, GLWannarka@... wrote:

                        In a message dated 12/18/2010 6:53:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, a2z_racer@... writes:
                         
                        Just as a matter of curiosity, are there many of these cars from the 1965 - 1990 era still around?  Are they running in vintage, in museums or garages, collecting dust, trashed?
                        Jerry Wannarka+
                        Someone did an informal listing of the ex-Penske Sunoco Camaross, as driven by Donohue, Ed Leslie, Sam Posey and other usually overlooked drivers, indicates that there were something like 15 cars built, and unfortunately, no more than 111 of them still exist and are racing!



                        --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Andrew Sturgess <ajyes72@...> wrote:
                        Make the inspection process loose so that Penske can acid dip without consequence.

                        While Penske had the reputation EVERYONE from the factories acid dipped, especially the roofs to lower weight. Supposedly the reason for vinyl roofs on Camaros, Mustangs and Petty NASCAR Chargers to disguise the ripples. Lighter than filler and paint.
                        .

                        I would ban all the Porsche 911 derivatives.

                        IMHO, that was an embarrassing example of Porsche lobbying and SCCA stupidity. One contemporary magazine had a photo array showing examples of the Porsche 911 CP car, the 912 EP car, the 911R BSR car, the U2Liter Trans Am car, the Group 2 Rally car, and the 2 liter Endurance GT car .... and they just showed the same picture 6 times!

                         

                        From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
                        T


                         I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
                        ever
                        !!!

                        I showed up in the area in the late 60s, living right down the road from the Falls Church Gordon Road shop. Bob had sold the Dart to Ralph ? at Car World, a general repair show right around the corner, in the same strip of shops. He bought the car because it had a light weight acid dipped body, and converted it into a drag racer, and then sold it after racing for a while. I tracked it down to Zervakis' shop in the Richmond area, hoping it could be returned to the Trans Am configuraturation, but it had the wheelbase altered and had been wrecked with virtually all the light weight parts removed, and a 440 Magnam block installed.

                        Cheers, Bob



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                      • Andrew Sturgess
                        The AQ article does say that everyone acid dipped and the Camaros bodies were still at a disadvantage by either 500 or 200lbs depending on who was
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 19, 2010
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                          The AQ article does say that everyone acid dipped and the Camaros bodies were still at a disadvantage by either 500 or 200lbs depending on who was complaining.
                           
                          LOL about the proliferation of vintage cars. I understand this is a problem in classic cars where a new vehicle can be built from a paint chip from the original.


                          From: Rick Mandelson <rollingthunder78@...>
                          To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 12:12:24 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and comments on the era

                           

                          Bob
                           
                          Well said and that includes other forms of Vintage racing as well, especially Indy Roadsters sporting Alfa motors in lieu of Offy's.
                           
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Bob
                          Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 12:01 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and comments on the era

                           



                          On 12/18/2010 6:03 PM, GLWannarka@... wrote:

                          In a message dated 12/18/2010 6:53:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, a2z_racer@... writes:
                           
                          Just as a matter of curiosity, are there many of these cars from the 1965 - 1990 era still around?  Are they running in vintage, in museums or garages, collecting dust, trashed?
                          Jerry Wannarka+
                          Someone did an informal listing of the ex-Penske Sunoco Camaross, as driven by Donohue, Ed Leslie, Sam Posey and other usually overlooked drivers, indicates that there were something like 15 cars built, and unfortunately, no more than 111 of them still exist and are racing!



                          --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Andrew Sturgess <ajyes72@...> wrote:
                          Make the inspection process loose so that Penske can acid dip without consequence.

                          While Penske had the reputation EVERYONE from the factories acid dipped, especially the roofs to lower weight. Supposedly the reason for vinyl roofs on Camaros, Mustangs and Petty NASCAR Chargers to disguise the ripples. Lighter than filler and paint.
                          .

                          I would ban all the Porsche 911 derivatives.

                          IMHO, that was an embarrassing example of Porsche lobbying and SCCA stupidity. One contemporary magazine had a photo array showing examples of the Porsche 911 CP car, the 912 EP car, the 911R BSR car, the U2Liter Trans Am car, the Group 2 Rally car, and the 2 liter Endurance GT car .... and they just showed the same picture 6 times!

                           

                          From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
                          T


                           I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
                          ever
                          !!!

                          I showed up in the area in the late 60s, living right down the road from the Falls Church Gordon Road shop. Bob had sold the Dart to Ralph ? at Car World, a general repair show right around the corner, in the same strip of shops. He bought the car because it had a light weight acid dipped body, and converted it into a drag racer, and then sold it after racing for a while. I tracked it down to Zervakis' shop in the Richmond area, hoping it could be returned to the Trans Am configuraturation, but it had the wheelbase altered and had been wrecked with virtually all the light weight parts removed, and a 440 Magnam block installed.

                          Cheers, Bob



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                        • Tony Adamowicz
                          Bob, Thank You for your follow up story....interesting. FYI: Since I personally worked on the Dart, It is my personal belief the Group 44 Dodge Dart ONLY had
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 19, 2010
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                            Bob,
                            Thank You for your follow up story....interesting.

                            FYI: Since I personally worked on the Dart, It is my personal belief the Group 44 Dodge Dart ONLY had lightweight acid dipped bolt on panels, Hood, Doors, Trunk.

                            It was not a acid dipped body like many of the competitors. Still the Best , most winning Chrysler corp entry in history. Not even the later  dated 71 AAR Barracudas, and Caldwell Challengers could say that.

                            Too bad the  car is gone , if there was enough left, by to days standards, it could be resurrected.  I know the economic situation played a part in the Dodge Dart tribute project car we had intentions of creating here in Calif. We had a Great donor 66 Dart , right color, no rust, un molested. Unfortunately we could not get necessary funding to build it and had to be sold.

                            Cheers !  Tony   a2z Racer


                            From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
                            T


                             I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
                            ever
                            !!!

                            I showed up in the area in the late 60s, living right down the road from the Falls Church Gordon Road shop. Bob had sold the Dart to Ralph ? at Car World, a general repair show right around the corner, in the same strip of shops. He bought the car because it had a light weight acid dipped body, and converted it into a drag racer, and then sold it after racing for a while. I tracked it down to Zervakis' shop in the Richmond area, hoping it could be returned to the Trans Am configuraturation, but it had the wheelbase altered and had been wrecked with virtually all the light weight parts removed, and a 440 Magnam block installed.

                            Cheers, Bob



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                          • Bob
                            To me what was remarkable were the many great cars that came from that cramped quonset hut. I recall a lot of project cars had to be stored in the trailer
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 19, 2010
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                              To me what was remarkable were the many great cars that came from that cramped quonset hut. I recall a lot of project cars had to be stored in the trailer parked out front, put back in the shop during race weekends, and back into the trailer when the team came back. Krokus ran an official/unoffical GP car, and towed it to races in an open trailer. Bob admits that he relies on Lanky to keep track of details, but this was before he arrived.

                              I bought a photo off eBay of the field at the start from that Sebring TransAm, and it's remarkable how modest the field was and how sparse the crowd in the tiny stands. Less than a high school football game back then. Too few recall Scott Harvey and his Team Starfish Barracudas, who kept the Mopar light alive in sporty cars, almost alone. He entered National Rallies, Baja, and just about any road event. Was handicapped by the big heavy rear window.

                              I checked with Brian and Ralph for details about the Dart, and Ralph claimed that he was mainly interested as it was was "acid dipped" but by the time I saw it, it had nothing left from the TA era, with not only new drive train but tiny front tire and big rear slick suspension. Probably only the roll bar remained, and in those days, it wasn't even a cage with much bracing. I had a source of cold rolled DOM tube that I provided to the Group through my employer, AMF, and they used a Greenlee hand pumped hydraulic conduit bender to form bars.

                              Back then, there was nothing older than last year's race car, and no one even thought about vintage or collecting.

                              Cheers, Bob
                              btw - Not long ago, a Chrysler car dealer friend went with some of cronies down to Daytona for a big vintage meet with their winning Interscope 935 Porsche ... only to find two others, each adamant that they had the real car. Someone dragged out Danny Ongias to put his blessing on one, and he just shook his head and walked away.

                              On 12/19/2010 3:00 PM, Tony Adamowicz wrote:

                              Bob,
                              Thank You for your follow up story....interesting.

                              FYI: Since I personally worked on the Dart, It is my personal belief the Group 44 Dodge Dart ONLY had lightweight acid dipped bolt on panels, Hood, Doors, Trunk.

                              It was not a acid dipped body like many of the competitors. Still the Best , most winning Chrysler corp entry in history. Not even the later  dated 71 AAR Barracudas, and Caldwell Challengers could say that.

                              Too bad the  car is gone , if there was enough left, by to days standards, it could be resurrected.  I know the economic situation played a part in the Dodge Dart tribute project car we had intentions of creating here in Calif. We had a Great donor 66 Dart , right color, no rust, un molested. Unfortunately we could not get necessary funding to build it and had to be sold.

                              Cheers !  Tony   a2z Racer


                              From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
                              T


                               I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
                              ever
                              !!!

                              I showed up in the area in the late 60s, living right down the road from the Falls Church Gordon Road shop. Bob had sold the Dart to Ralph ? at Car World, a general repair show right around the corner, in the same strip of shops. He bought the car because it had a light weight acid dipped body, and converted it into a drag racer, and then sold it after racing for a while. I tracked it down to Zervakis' shop in the Richmond area, hoping it could be returned to the Trans Am configuraturation, but it had the wheelbase altered and had been wrecked with virtually all the light weight parts removed, and a 440 Magnam block installed.

                              Cheers, Bob


                              _________




                            • The Polimeni Clan
                              Tony, sorry to hear the Dart project won t materialize. I was really looking forward to seeing it.
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 19, 2010
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                                Tony, sorry to hear the Dart project won't materialize. I was really
                                looking forward to seeing it.
                              • Tony Adamowicz
                                Ron, Thank You for the follow up, like so many good projects that have gone away in our lifetime....It was a worthwhile project...unfortunate economic times...
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 19, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ron,
                                  Thank You for the follow up, like so many good projects that have gone away in our lifetime....It was a worthwhile project...unfortunate economic times... My friend Steve Knoll and Klaus Kindor picked the donar car up in Nevada and drove it back to Calif, originally it was a Calif car, rust free., un molested...too bad, Chrysler Corp did not back up their original commitments on the project.

                                  For those who have not seen this Dart project
                                  In 1966, the first ever SCCA sanctioned Trans-Am race was held in Sebring Florida. The over 2.0 liter class win went to the Group 44/Quaker State Dodge Dart of Bob ...
                                  www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkICeDCzKbE - Cached


                                  You did and the Clan did a fantastic job  on your Sebring PV 544, something that I wished I could have done with my ole Marlboro 544.

                                  Best to you and the Polimeni Clan during the Holidays, Much Cheer to all.

                                  " Keeping the Legends Alive "

                                  a2z

                                  "If you CAN dream it,
                                  It WILL happen "


                                  --- On Sun, 12/19/10, The Polimeni Clan <polimeni@...> wrote:

                                  From: The Polimeni Clan <polimeni@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and comments on the era
                                  To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 1:41 PM

                                   

                                  Tony, sorry to hear the Dart project won't materialize. I was really
                                  looking forward to seeing it.


                                • gary barnes
                                  Tony.........So.....has this 66 dart been sold......and the project now off the books ? Private funding could have made this a reality.  I d have been a
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 19, 2010
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                                    Tony.........So.....has this 66 dart been sold......and the project now "off the books"? Private funding could have made this a reality.  I'd have been a 'player'.     Gary Barnes/Maryland

                                    --- On Sun, 12/19/10, Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...> wrote:

                                    From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
                                    Subject: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Introduction and comments on the era
                                    To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 4:00 PM

                                     

                                    Bob,
                                    Thank You for your follow up story....interesting.

                                    FYI: Since I personally worked on the Dart, It is my personal belief the Group 44 Dodge Dart ONLY had lightweight acid dipped bolt on panels, Hood, Doors, Trunk.

                                    It was not a acid dipped body like many of the competitors. Still the Best , most winning Chrysler corp entry in history. Not even the later  dated 71 AAR Barracudas, and Caldwell Challengers could say that.

                                    Too bad the  car is gone , if there was enough left, by to days standards, it could be resurrected.  I know the economic situation played a part in the Dodge Dart tribute project car we had intentions of creating here in Calif. We had a Great donor 66 Dart , right color, no rust, un molested. Unfortunately we could not get necessary funding to build it and had to be sold.

                                    Cheers !  Tony   a2z Racer

                                    From: Tony Adamowicz <a2z_racer@...>
                                    T

                                     I agree with Steve Knoll that the Group 44 Bob Tullius claims the last of 3 Trans Am wins in 1966 & 67 for the Group 44 Dodge Dart, the most successful Trans Am Chrysler,
                                    ever
                                    !!!
                                    I showed up in the area in the late 60s, living right down the road from the Falls Church Gordon Road shop. Bob had sold the Dart to Ralph ? at Car World, a general repair show right around the corner, in the same strip of shops. He bought the car because it had a light weight acid dipped body, and converted it into a drag racer, and then sold it after racing for a while. I tracked it down to Zervakis' shop in the Richmond area, hoping it could be returned to the Trans Am configuraturation, but it had the wheelbase altered and had been wrecked with virtually all the light weight parts removed, and a 440 Magnam block installed.

                                    Cheers, Bob


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