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Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Thanks, John.

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  • Stephen Lloyd
    Matt, You might get a kick out of knowing that there were Formula One cars that raced at Marlboro, although, as far as I know, they were racing there years
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 29, 2006
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      Matt,
      You might get a kick out of knowing that there were Formula One cars that raced at Marlboro, although, as far as I know, they were racing there years after their competition in the World Championship. The red Cooper in my photo section started life as a team F1 Cooper from '64 or '65, but it featured a very non-standard Renault enigne when Lee Sacks raced and autocrossed (!!) it.
       
      There was a guy from Bethesda, MD, Warren Shamlian, father of Sandy Shamlian of QuicksilveRacengine fame, who raced a Lotus 21 F1 car at Marlboro. I remember seeing it in his shop. It was a former Team Lotus car, driven, I believe, by Peter Arundell or Trevor Taylor. When Warren Shalmian raced it, he used the 2.5 liter 4 cyl Coventry Climax instead of the more appropriate 1.5 liter V8 Climax. Because of the 2.5 liter discplacement, he had to race it as a Formula A in SCCA competition.
       
      Finally, I've got movies of a chap (don't know his name) who drove Mike Hawthorn's old front-engined F1 Cooper-Bristol from the early 1950s. It raced at Marlboro in 1967 or 1968.
       
      Also, Roger Penske's old Telar Special (seen in my April 1963 National shots) was a sports racer made from a converted Cooper F1 car.
       
      So, in a manner of speaking, your GPL sim has a genuine F1 history as well.
      Steve Lloyd

      marlboro4gpl <marlboro4gpl@...> wrote:
      Thanks to John King for the introduction; and thanks to all of you.

      As John said, I'm the guy who built the virtual version of Marlboro that features in the
      virtual lap.  I built the track entirely from photographs, videos, and commentary from
      Marlboro drivers like John.

      I've been looking through the photographs here, and they are outstanding.  A few show
      me things I should have done differently, but overall I think my mistakes are pretty minor.

      I grew up near Marlboro; though I was born years after the last race there.  Once, when I
      was in junior high, my dad pointed off to the side of route 3, and told me that there's an
      abandoned racetrack back there somewhere.  That was the first I'd heard of it; fast forward
      several years and I found some information about the track on line.  A track map,
      probably; then found the track on satellite photographs.  I thought it looked like a fun
      track, and close to home; so I decided to build it.

      I don't have exact numbers; but a few thousand people have downloaded the track in the
      last two years.  People all over the world, some of whom had never heard of Marlboro,
      some of whom had watched or even raced there.

      And my initial instinct was right -- it's a lot of fun to drive.

      This group is wonderful -- I'm learning a lot more about the track, and about the people
      who made it.  Thanks to everyone for the stories and photos!

      Matt







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    • Bob Storck
      ... Could you have confused this car? I bought a rear engine Cooper F1 from Woody Woodruff that had an early Coventry Climax FPF which had a 2.5 liter
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 29, 2006
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        Stephen Lloyd wrote:

        > There was a guy from Bethesda, MD, Warren Shamlian, father of Sandy
        > Shamlian of QuicksilveRacengine fame, who raced a Lotus 21 F1 car at
        > Marlboro. I remember seeing it in his shop. It was a former Team Lotus
        > car, driven, I believe, by Peter Arundell or Trevor Taylor. When
        > Warren Shalmian raced it, he used the 2.5 liter 4 cyl Coventry Climax
        > instead of the more appropriate 1.5 liter V8 Climax. Because of the
        > 2.5 liter discplacement, he had to race it as a Formula A in SCCA
        > competition.

        Could you have confused this car? I bought a rear engine Cooper F1 from
        Woody Woodruff that had an early Coventry Climax FPF which had a 2.5
        liter displacement. The car dated from 1959 and seems to have been
        brought over for the Sebring F1 race. This would have been the F1
        displacement at the time. It was painted red at the time I owned it.
        Warren had driven it and proclaimed that it was the most evil handling
        car he ever drove. I loaned it to Rich Lamb of the Laurel Racer's store
        and he painted it BRgreen and white again.

        Also, I recall someone showing up with a front engine Maserati 250 that
        he drove embarrassingly slowly, perhaps spooked by the odd pedal
        arrangement.

        Cheers, Bob
      • Stephen Lloyd
        Shamlian may very well have checked out a Cooper at one time, but the car I m thinking of was defnitely a Lotus 21. I helped him prep it for a regional at
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 30, 2006
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          Shamlian may very well have checked out a Cooper at one time, but the car I'm thinking of was defnitely a Lotus 21. I helped him prep it for a regional at Marlboro. It was painted silver. I would have loved to have seen a 250F! Wow!
          SL

          Bob Storck <bstorck@...> wrote:
          Stephen Lloyd wrote:

          > There was a guy from Bethesda, MD, Warren Shamlian, father of Sandy
          > Shamlian of QuicksilveRacengine fame, who raced a Lotus 21 F1 car at
          > Marlboro. I remember seeing it in his shop. It was a former Team Lotus
          > car, driven, I believe, by Peter Arundell or Trevor Taylor. When
          > Warren Shalmian raced it, he used the 2.5 liter 4 cyl Coventry Climax
          > instead of the more appropriate 1.5 liter V8 Climax. Because of the
          > 2.5 liter discplacement, he had to race it as a Formula A in SCCA
          > competition.

          Could you have confused this car? I bought a rear engine Cooper F1 from
          Woody Woodruff that had an early Coventry Climax FPF which had a 2.5
          liter displacement. The car dated from 1959 and seems to have been
          brought over for the Sebring F1 race. This would have been the F1
          displacement at the time. It was painted red at the time I owned it.
          Warren had driven it and proclaimed that it was the most evil handling
          car he ever drove. I loaned it to Rich Lamb of the Laurel Racer's store
          and he painted it BRgreen and white again.

          Also, I recall someone showing up with a front engine Maserati 250 that
          he drove embarrassingly slowly, perhaps spooked by the odd pedal
          arrangement.

          Cheers, Bob



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        • Bob Storck
          ... Obviously not the same car. Woody had the complete car scattered around his two car garage in Arlington: the engine and trans under a workbench; the frame
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 30, 2006
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            Stephen Lloyd wrote:
            Shamlian may very well have checked out a Cooper at one time, but the car I'm thinking of was defnitely a Lotus 21. I helped him prep it for a regional at Marlboro. It was painted silver.
            Obviously not the same car. Woody had the complete car scattered around his two car garage in Arlington: the engine and trans under a workbench; the frame hanging from the rafters, and the body, suspension and two wheels in the attic. I was considering a BSR and interested in the FPF engine, but decided it was too old a version. The CC FPF was a 2.0 and 2.5liter four, sometimes stretched to 2.7 liter for races like the Tasman, and it was this latter version that Jack Brabham ran at Indy. Then they went to the 1.5 liter formula, and Coventry Climax produced a V8 that became the standard engine, at one time in all cars except Ferrari. Later they went to the 3.0 liter limit, and old FPFs were called upon to do test duties for a whole bunch of cars like the original Eagle F1, until the Ford Cosworth V8 came along.

            What always astounded me was how these original formula cars could be adapted to a wide variety of engines and still win. I've seen cars like the early Lotuses with everything from 1100 cc Cosworth SCAs to 6 liter V8s. Just matching wheels and trans to the engine.
            I would have loved to have seen a 250F!
            As I said, it was not impressive. Some guys showed up with Stangalini FCs, and the whole crop of Quantam Saab powered critters.

            Cheers, Bob


            Bob Storck <bstorck@...> wrote:
            Stephen Lloyd wrote:

            > There was a guy from Bethesda, MD, Warren Shamlian, father of Sandy
            > Shamlian of QuicksilveRacengine fame, who raced a Lotus 21 F1 car at
            > Marlboro. I remember seeing it in his shop. It was a former Team Lotus
            > car, driven, I believe, by Peter Arundell or Trevor Taylor. When
            > Warren Shalmian raced it, he used the 2.5 liter 4 cyl Coventry Climax
            > instead of the more appropriate 1.5 liter V8 Climax. Because of the
            > 2.5 liter discplacement, he had to race it as a Formula A in SCCA
            > competition.

            Could you have confused this car? I bought a rear engine Cooper F1 from
            Woody Woodruff that had an early Coventry Climax FPF which had a 2.5
            liter displacement. The car dated from 1959 and seems to have been
            brought over for the Sebring F1 race. This would have been the F1
            displacement at the time. It was painted red at the time I owned it.
            Warren had driven it and proclaimed that it was the most evil handling
            car he ever drove. I loaned it to Rich Lamb of the Laurel Racer's store
            and he painted it BRgreen and white again.

            Also, I recall someone showing up with a front engine Maserati 250 that
            he drove embarrassingly slowly, perhaps spooked by the odd pedal
            arrangement.

            Cheers, Bob

          • Bob Storck
            ... I meant to add that one of the reasons I bought the car from Woody is that I had the missing magnesium front wheels! I had bought them when Heishman s
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 30, 2006
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              Bob Storck wrote:
              Stephen Lloyd wrote:
              Shamlian may very well have checked out a Cooper at one time, but the car I'm thinking of was defnitely a Lotus 21. I helped him prep it for a regional at Marlboro. It was painted silver.
              Obviously not the same car. Woody had the complete car scattered around his two car garage in Arlington: the engine and trans under a workbench; the frame hanging from the rafters, and the body, suspension and two wheels in the attic.
              I meant to add that one of the reasons I bought the car from Woody is that I had the missing magnesium front wheels! I had bought them when Heishman's opened their shop for a SCCA flea market. They had the bearing races and brake shoe molded into the wheel, but the four bolt pattern was the same as the Daimler so I planned to machine out the hub and use them for rain tires. Luckily, I never did.

              Any one know about Woody?

              Or does anyone have contact for T. Patterson Goodman (phone/and or email)

              Cheers, Bob
            • Denny Austin
              Not sure about Pat Goodman but Woody re-emerged a year or two ago piloting a Spec Miata! Denny Austin Transition Fitness, LLC. phone: (240) 305-7244 e-mail:
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 30, 2006
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                Not sure about Pat Goodman but Woody re-emerged a year or two ago piloting a Spec Miata!

                 

                Denny Austin

                Transition Fitness, LLC.

                phone: (240) 305-7244

                e-mail: denny@...

                web: www.TransitionFitness.com

                 


                From: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Storck
                Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:40 PM
                To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Thanks, John.

                 

                Bob Storck wrote:

                Stephen Lloyd wrote:

                Shamlian may very well have checked out a Cooper at one time, but the car I'm thinking of was defnitely a Lotus 21. I helped him prep it for a regional at Marlboro. It was painted silver.

                Obviously not the same car. Woody had the complete car scattered around his two car garage in Arlington: the engine and trans under a workbench; the frame hanging from the rafters, and the body, suspension and two wheels in the attic.

                I meant to add that one of the reasons I bought the car from Woody is that I had the missing magnesium front wheels! I had bought them when Heishman's opened their shop for a SCCA flea market. They had the bearing races and brake shoe molded into the wheel, but the four bolt pattern was the same as the Daimler so I planned to machine out the hub and use them for rain tires. Luckily, I never did.

                Any one know about Woody?

                Or does anyone have contact for T. Patterson Goodman (phone/and or email)

                Cheers, Bob

              • m. z.
                When I saw the line about a Maserati 250 at Marlboro, it rang a bell. Not exactly correctly, or anything. But I d seen these pictures while building the
                Message 7 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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                  When I saw the line about a Maserati 250 at Marlboro,
                  it rang a bell.

                  Not exactly correctly, or anything. But I'd seen
                  these pictures while building the track:

                  http://www.thevintageracer.com/rickm/rick_msb5.htm

                  which include a big front-engined, fifties GP car at
                  marlboro. I can't identify it exactly, but I'll bet
                  there's someone here who can...

                  What's the story on that picture, anyway?

                  Matt

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                • Bob Storck
                  ... Looks like the early 50s HWM that Stirling drove for a while before he moved up to the Maserati 250. Cheers, Bob
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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                    m. z. wrote:

                    > When I saw the line about a Maserati 250 at Marlboro,
                    > it rang a bell.
                    >
                    > Not exactly correctly, or anything. But I'd seen
                    > these pictures while building the track:
                    >
                    > http://www.thevintageracer.com/rickm/rick_msb5.htm
                    >
                    > which include a big front-engined, fifties GP car at
                    > marlboro. I can't identify it exactly, but I'll bet
                    > there's someone here who can...

                    Looks like the early 50s HWM that Stirling drove for a while before he
                    moved up to the Maserati 250.

                    Cheers, Bob
                  • rollingthunder78@juno.com
                    Right as usual Bob........... Rick Mandelson Ellicott City, Maryland On Mon, 01 May 2006 17:35:46 -0500 Bob Storck writes: ... Looks like
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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                      Right as usual Bob...........
                       
                      Rick Mandelson
                      Ellicott City, Maryland
                       
                      On Mon, 01 May 2006 17:35:46 -0500 Bob Storck <bstorck@...> writes:
                      m. z. wrote:

                      > When I saw the line about a Maserati 250 at Marlboro,
                      > it rang a bell.
                      >
                      > Not exactly correctly, or anything.  But I'd seen
                      > these pictures while building the track:
                      >
                      > http://www.thevintageracer.com/rickm/rick_msb5.htm
                      >
                      > which include a big front-engined, fifties GP car at
                      > marlboro.  I can't identify it exactly, but I'll bet
                      > there's someone here who can...

                      Looks like the early 50s HWM that Stirling drove for a while before he
                      moved up to the Maserati 250.

                      Cheers, Bob

                       
                    • Stephen Lloyd
                      Actually, I think we d find it s a Cooper-Bristol as driven by Mike Hawthorn. There was quite a bit of discussion over the PA that day. If you recall, Rick,
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 1, 2006
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                        Actually,
                        I think we'd find it's a Cooper-Bristol as driven by Mike Hawthorn. There was quite a bit of discussion over the PA that day. If you recall, Rick, I'd mentioned before we took photos of this car from almost the same place. I've got it on movies as well.
                        Steve L.

                        rollingthunder78@... wrote:
                        Right as usual Bob...........
                         
                        Rick Mandelson
                        Ellicott City, Maryland
                         
                        On Mon, 01 May 2006 17:35:46 -0500 Bob Storck <bstorck@...> writes:
                        m. z. wrote:

                        > When I saw the line about a Maserati 250 at Marlboro,
                        > it rang a bell.
                        >
                        > Not exactly correctly, or anything.  But I'd seen
                        > these pictures while building the track:
                        >
                        > http://www.thevintageracer.com/rickm/rick_msb5.htm
                        >
                        > which include a big front-engined, fifties GP car at
                        > marlboro.  I can't identify it exactly, but I'll bet
                        > there's someone here who can...

                        Looks like the early 50s HWM that Stirling drove for a while before he
                        moved up to the Maserati 250.

                        Cheers, Bob

                         


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