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RE: a2z: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question

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  • john mccann
    Thanx to all.  Back to lurking and loving the pictures & remarks from the Group....John ... From: Don Haines Subject: RE: a2z:
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 18, 2010
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      Thanx to all.  Back to lurking and loving the pictures & remarks from the Group....John

      --- On Sun, 4/18/10, Don Haines <gtracer66@...> wrote:

      From: Don Haines <gtracer66@...>
      Subject: RE: a2z: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
      To: marlboro_raceway@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 11:30 AM

       

      Hello all,
       
         Funny this subject of errant wheels should come up. I was just talking to a co-worker about it yesterday.
       
       During practice for an IMSA Camel GT race at Lime Rock I noticed a clunking sound coming from the rear of the car.  Since I had just changed the rear, I suspected it might be a loose universal joint or half shaft.  I came in and had the guys check it.  No problem..everything tight.
         We had all been up all night driving from Maryland to the track. And it we had intermittent rain at the track. We had been changing from dry to wet tires and everyone was "helping" get things done quick enough to get more practice time. 
       
        So out I go, thinking the clunking would either go away or get loud enough to figure what it definitely was.  As I came around "big bend" the car made a sudden lurch and dropped down on the ground.  The left rear wheel had come off. Apparently everyone thought someone else had torqued the wheels but nobody had actually done it.  Funny thing was that when you looked at the car you couldn't figure out how the wheel got out from under the fenderwell.  What happened was the wheel came off and went straight back and split the body work at a natural seam without breaking the fender.  So the body work simply opened up.. let the wheel pass through and slapped shut again.  From a distance it looked like nothing had happened except for a hairline crack where the fender and rear panel met.
       
        So happy it didn't come off on the straight.  We beat the studs straight.. re-attatched the wheel and drove back to the pits.
       
        After that we never did any all nighters.  Either we got a full night sleep or stayed home.
       
      Don Haines



      To: Marlboro_Raceway@ yahoogroups. com
      From: a2z_racer@yahoo. com
      Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 03:05:32 -0700
      Subject: a2z: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question

       
      Gentlemen,

      The Brits always seem to have a way with words.... I too had a  rear wheel  hub break and leave the wheel well of my Ferrari 365 GTB-4 during  the 1980 Daytona 24 hr race, it passed me while I was braking into a corner prior to entering the banking. Truly an amazing thing to have happen, I thought this can't be happening... . it did..and retired the car while running 4th OA with a few hours left in the race.

      " Keeping the Legends Alive "

      Cheers !  a2z
      Costa Mesa, ca.


      --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net> wrote:

      From: scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>
      Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
      To: Marlboro_Raceway@ yahoogroups. com
      Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 7:06 PM

       

      Aloha,

      While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a 450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.

      Best wishes,

      David

      Kauai

      crazylucy38 wrote:

      > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.
      >
      > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is a wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group but cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came from his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."
      >
      > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen the way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?
      >
      > Thanx
      >
      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >




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    • john mccann
      Thanks so much.  I appreciate your checking.  I guess I should tell you that (being somewhat obsessive-compulsive) I looked for a website to cite on the
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 18, 2010
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        Thanks so much.  I appreciate your checking.  I guess I should tell you that (being somewhat obsessive-compulsive) I looked for a website to cite on the other forum that I mentioned, I found that at the German GP in '57, Moss placed 5th in a Vanwall according to http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr062.html.   I (of course!!) am not trying to argue or pretend to know more than thee.  But on the off-hand chance you're also afflicted with excess worry over trivia--I thought I'd pass that on...

        --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...> wrote:

        From: scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...>
        Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
        To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:06 PM

         

        Aloha,

        While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a 450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.

        Best wishes,

        David

        Kauai

        crazylucy38 wrote:

        > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.
        >
        > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is a wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group but cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came from his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."
        >
        > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen the way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?
        >
        > Thanx
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >


      • scshmoo@earthlink.net
        Aloha John, On 26 May 1957 Moss raced a Maserati 450 S (that is a sports car) in the ADAC 1000 km at the Nurburgring and lost the left rear wheel/hub. In the
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 18, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Aloha John,

          On 26 May 1957 Moss raced a Maserati 450 S (that is a sports car) in the ADAC
          1000 km at the Nurburgring and lost the left rear wheel/hub.

          In the 1957 August German GP, also at the Nurburgring, Moss raced a Vanwall. He
          did not lose a wheel during this race.

          Your question was whether Moss had made a wry comment about losing a wheel in
          the Dutch GP.

          I checked all appearances at Zandvort for Moss and he did not lose a wheel
          there. Then I checked all instances when Moss was DNF and found only two
          references to losing a wheel; Spa in 1956 with a 250 F (that is a GP car) and
          ADAC with the sports 450S were all I could find.

          Perhaps your other web site can be more helpful

          David

          Kauai


          john mccann wrote:

          > Thanks so much. I appreciate your checking. I guess I should tell you that
          (being somewhat obsessive-compulsive) I looked for a website to cite on the
          other forum that I mentioned, I found that at the German GP in '57, Moss
          placed 5th in a Vanwall according to
          http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr062.html. I (of course!!) am not trying to
          argue or pretend to know more than thee. But on the off-hand chance you're
          also afflicted with excess worry over trivia--I thought I'd pass that on...

          --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...> wrote:


          From: scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...>
          Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
          To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:06 PM

          Aloha,

          While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a
          wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a
          450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.

          Best wishes,

          David

          Kauai

          crazylucy38 wrote:

          > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found
          this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I
          cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road
          racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.
          >
          > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch
          Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is a
          wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to
          recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group but
          cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized
          that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came from
          his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."
          >
          > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen the
          way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?
          >
          > Thanx
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >

          >
          >
          >
        • john mccann
          And Aloha to you too, sir!  (Bowing humbly...) ... From: scshmoo@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question To:
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 18, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            And Aloha to you too, sir!  (Bowing humbly...)

            --- On Sun, 4/18/10, scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...> wrote:

            From: scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...>
            Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
            To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:45 PM

             

            Aloha John,

            On 26 May 1957 Moss raced a Maserati 450 S (that is a sports car) in the ADAC
            1000 km at the Nurburgring and lost the left rear wheel/hub.

            In the 1957 August German GP, also at the Nurburgring, Moss raced a Vanwall. He
            did not lose a wheel during this race.

            Your question was whether Moss had made a wry comment about losing a wheel in
            the Dutch GP.

            I checked all appearances at Zandvort for Moss and he did not lose a wheel
            there. Then I checked all instances when Moss was DNF and found only two
            references to losing a wheel; Spa in 1956 with a 250 F (that is a GP car) and
            ADAC with the sports 450S were all I could find.

            Perhaps your other web site can be more helpful

            David

            Kauai

            john mccann wrote:

            > Thanks so much. I appreciate your checking. I guess I should tell you that
            (being somewhat obsessive-compulsiv e) I looked for a website to cite on the
            other forum that I mentioned, I found that at the German GP in '57, Moss
            placed 5th in a Vanwall according to
            http://www.grandpri x.com/gpe/ rr062.html. I (of course!!) am not trying to
            argue or pretend to know more than thee. But on the off-hand chance you're
            also afflicted with excess worry over trivia--I thought I'd pass that on...

            --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net> wrote:

            From: scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>
            Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
            To: Marlboro_Raceway@ yahoogroups. com
            Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:06 PM

            Aloha,

            While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a
            wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a
            450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.

            Best wishes,

            David

            Kauai

            crazylucy38 wrote:

            > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found
            this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I
            cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road
            racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.
            >
            > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch
            Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is a
            wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to
            recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group but
            cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized
            that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came from
            his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."
            >
            > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen the
            way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?
            >
            > Thanx
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >

            >
            >
            >


          • Richard
            I was an R&T subscriber in 1956, but I can t remember the article on the 1956 Belgian GP that might have included Moss s comments about losing the wheel, and I
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 19, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              I was an R&T subscriber in 1956, but I can't remember the article on the 1956 Belgian GP that might have included Moss's comments about losing the wheel, and I did not keep my copies of R&T to research the articles. The race was on June 3, 1956, so I imagine the R&T report on the race would have been in the Sep or Oct 1956 issue. I suggest you go to the R&T Forums (http://forums.roadandtrack.com) and ask any readers that have archived copies to research those issues. If that fails, contact R&T web site - they must have archives of all copies somewhere.

              After losing the wheel, Moss ran back to the pits, took over Cesare Perdisa's Maserati 250F and eventually finished 3rd in the race behind Peter Collins and Paul Frere (the longtime R&T European contributor) in Lancia Ferrari D50s. The 3rd place 5 points were split 3 for Moss and 2 for Perdisa (Source: http://www.manipef1.com/grandprix/1956/belgium/). A good summary of the race is at Grand Prix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr052.html).

              There is an excellent Google video showing Moss's Maserati with the wheel missing and he running back to the pits at Eau Rouge (it was fortunate he lost the wheel so close to the pits, but the Eau Rouge right hand turn would certainly put the most force on the left rear wheel). URL for video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6729741841437403541#

              I have several videos containing interviews with Moss; I'll try to dig them out and see if his comment is mentioned.

              Dick Miller

              --- In Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com, john mccann <crazylucy38@...> wrote:
              >
              > And Aloha to you too, sir!  (Bowing humbly...)
              >
              > --- On Sun, 4/18/10, scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...>
              > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
              > To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:45 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Aloha John,
              >
              >
              >
              > On 26 May 1957 Moss raced a Maserati 450 S (that is a sports car) in the ADAC
              >
              > 1000 km at the Nurburgring and lost the left rear wheel/hub.
              >
              >
              >
              > In the 1957 August German GP, also at the Nurburgring, Moss raced a Vanwall. He
              >
              > did not lose a wheel during this race.
              >
              >
              >
              > Your question was whether Moss had made a wry comment about losing a wheel in
              >
              > the Dutch GP.
              >
              >
              >
              > I checked all appearances at Zandvort for Moss and he did not lose a wheel
              >
              > there. Then I checked all instances when Moss was DNF and found only two
              >
              > references to losing a wheel; Spa in 1956 with a 250 F (that is a GP car) and
              >
              > ADAC with the sports 450S were all I could find.
              >
              >
              >
              > Perhaps your other web site can be more helpful
              >
              >
              >
              > David
              >
              >
              >
              > Kauai
              >
              >
              >
              > john mccann wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > > Thanks so much. I appreciate your checking. I guess I should tell you that
              >
              > (being somewhat obsessive-compulsiv e) I looked for a website to cite on the
              >
              > other forum that I mentioned, I found that at the German GP in '57, Moss
              >
              > placed 5th in a Vanwall according to
              >
              > http://www.grandpri x.com/gpe/ rr062.html. I (of course!!) am not trying to
              >
              > argue or pretend to know more than thee. But on the off-hand chance you're
              >
              > also afflicted with excess worry over trivia--I thought I'd pass that on...
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > From: scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>
              >
              > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
              >
              > To: Marlboro_Raceway@ yahoogroups. com
              >
              > Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:06 PM
              >
              >
              >
              > Aloha,
              >
              >
              >
              > While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a
              >
              > wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a
              >
              > 450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.
              >
              >
              >
              > Best wishes,
              >
              >
              >
              > David
              >
              >
              >
              > Kauai
              >
              >
              >
              > crazylucy38 wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found
              >
              > this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I
              >
              > cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road
              >
              > racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch
              >
              > Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is a
              >
              > wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to
              >
              > recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group but
              >
              > cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized
              >
              > that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came from
              >
              > his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen the
              >
              > way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Thanx
              >
              > >
              >
              > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
            • scshmoo@earthlink.net
              Aloha Richard, Just checked my copy of 9/56 R&T. Cahier reports that Moss 250 F broke the de Dion tube and lost a wheel. Cahier notes, ...Moss jumped out
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 19, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Aloha Richard,

                Just checked my copy of 9/56 R&T.

                Cahier reports that Moss' 250 F broke the de Dion tube and lost a wheel. Cahier notes, "...Moss jumped out like a jack-in-the-box and as he was sprinting past back towards the pits, he told me, 'I'm getting another car....'"

                So that is the quote from that race

                Best wishes,

                David

                Kauai



                Richard wrote:

                > I was an R&T subscriber in 1956, but I can't remember the article on the 1956 Belgian GP that might have included Moss's comments about losing the wheel, and I did not keep my copies of R&T to research the articles. The race was on June 3, 1956, so I imagine the R&T report on the race would have been in the Sep or Oct 1956 issue. I suggest you go to the R&T Forums (http://forums.roadandtrack.com) and ask any readers that have archived copies to research those issues. If that fails, contact R&T web site - they must have archives of all copies somewhere.
                >
                > After losing the wheel, Moss ran back to the pits, took over Cesare Perdisa's Maserati 250F and eventually finished 3rd in the race behind Peter Collins and Paul Frere (the longtime R&T European contributor) in Lancia Ferrari D50s. The 3rd place 5 points were split 3 for Moss and 2 for Perdisa (Source: http://www.manipef1.com/grandprix/1956/belgium/). A good summary of the race is at Grand Prix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr052.html).
                >
                > There is an excellent Google video showing Moss's Maserati with the wheel missing and he running back to the pits at Eau Rouge (it was fortunate he lost the wheel so close to the pits, but the Eau Rouge right hand turn would certainly put the most force on the left rear wheel). URL for video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6729741841437403541#
                >
                > I have several videos containing interviews with Moss; I'll try to dig them out and see if his comment is mentioned.
                >
                > Dick Miller
                >
                > --- In Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com, john mccann <crazylucy38@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > And Aloha to you too, sir!  (Bowing humbly...)
                > >
                > > --- On Sun, 4/18/10, scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > From: scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...>
                > > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
                > > To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                > > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:45 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >  
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Aloha John,
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On 26 May 1957 Moss raced a Maserati 450 S (that is a sports car) in the ADAC
                > >
                > > 1000 km at the Nurburgring and lost the left rear wheel/hub.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > In the 1957 August German GP, also at the Nurburgring, Moss raced a Vanwall. He
                > >
                > > did not lose a wheel during this race.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your question was whether Moss had made a wry comment about losing a wheel in
                > >
                > > the Dutch GP.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I checked all appearances at Zandvort for Moss and he did not lose a wheel
                > >
                > > there. Then I checked all instances when Moss was DNF and found only two
                > >
                > > references to losing a wheel; Spa in 1956 with a 250 F (that is a GP car) and
                > >
                > > ADAC with the sports 450S were all I could find.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Perhaps your other web site can be more helpful
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > David
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Kauai
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > john mccann wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > > Thanks so much. I appreciate your checking. I guess I should tell you that
                > >
                > > (being somewhat obsessive-compulsiv e) I looked for a website to cite on the
                > >
                > > other forum that I mentioned, I found that at the German GP in '57, Moss
                > >
                > > placed 5th in a Vanwall according to
                > >
                > > http://www.grandpri x.com/gpe/ rr062.html. I (of course!!) am not trying to
                > >
                > > argue or pretend to know more than thee. But on the off-hand chance you're
                > >
                > > also afflicted with excess worry over trivia--I thought I'd pass that on...
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > From: scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>
                > >
                > > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
                > >
                > > To: Marlboro_Raceway@ yahoogroups. com
                > >
                > > Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:06 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Aloha,
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a
                > >
                > > wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a
                > >
                > > 450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Best wishes,
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > David
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Kauai
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > crazylucy38 wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found
                > >
                > > this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I
                > >
                > > cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road
                > >
                > > racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch
                > >
                > > Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is a
                > >
                > > wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to
                > >
                > > recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group but
                > >
                > > cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized
                > >
                > > that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came from
                > >
                > > his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen the
                > >
                > > way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > Thanx
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Sam_Smith01@comcast.net
                Good evening old friends, Two comments on the wheels getting ahead us at an inopportune time: First, I do remember reading Moss saying that while driving a
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 19, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Good evening old friends,
                  Two comments on the wheels getting ahead us at an inopportune time:
                  First, I do remember reading Moss saying that while driving a Lotus 18 F-1 I think, a wheel came off and passed him. Just a thought!
                  Second, I crewed for a light blue Alfa Giulietta Spider - owned and raced by Frank Miller - Frank and Dick Clapp who also used a Giulietta Spider participated in the 65 or 66 Marlboro 6 hour Joe Richardson and Ernie Johnson also crewed on this effort - anyway, early in the evening Frank was headed down the back straight toward creek bend when he felt a thump on braking and watched his right rear wheel and tire pass by going for a swim in the creek. - many white flags latter Franks Alfa was back in the infield - We had to get the corner workers to brave the creek wild life to retrieve the wheel and tire so that we could pull the tire and put it on a "better" wheel so we could proceed - they did and we did - finish well down in the order but we did finish - I built the motor - pretty stock - Frank loved to try trick engine build ideas - but most caused the rods to attempt escape - We had it pretty good back when
                  Regards,
                  Sam Smith

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: scshmoo@...
                  To: Marlboro Raceway
                  Sent: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:20:00 +0000 (UTC)
                  Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Off-Topic Question









                   

                  Aloha Richard,



                  Just checked my copy of 9/56 R&T.



                  Cahier reports that Moss' 250 F broke the de Dion tube and lost a wheel. Cahier notes, "...Moss jumped out like a jack-in-the-box and as he was sprinting past back towards the pits,  he told me, 'I'm getting another car....'"



                  So that is the quote from that race



                  Best wishes,



                  David



                  Kauai



                  Richard wrote:



                  > I was an R&T subscriber in 1956, but I can't remember the article on the 1956 Belgian GP that might have included Moss's comments about losing the wheel, and I did not keep my copies of R&T to research the articles.  The race was on June 3, 1956, so I imagine the R&T report on the race would have been in the Sep or Oct 1956 issue.  I suggest you go to the R&T Forums (http://forums.roadandtrack.com) and ask any readers that have archived copies to research those issues.  If that fails, contact R&T web site - they must have archives of all copies somewhere.


                  >


                  > After losing the wheel, Moss ran back to the pits, took over Cesare Perdisa's Maserati 250F and eventually finished 3rd in the race behind Peter Collins and Paul Frere (the longtime R&T European contributor) in Lancia Ferrari D50s.  The 3rd place 5 points were split 3 for Moss and 2 for Perdisa (Source: http://www.manipef1.com/grandprix/1956/belgium/).  A good summary of the race is at Grand Prix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr052.html).


                  >


                  > There is an excellent Google video showing Moss's Maserati with the wheel missing and he running back to the pits at Eau Rouge (it was fortunate he lost the wheel so close to the pits, but the Eau Rouge right hand turn would certainly put the most force on the left rear wheel).  URL for video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6729741841437403541#


                  >


                  > I have several videos containing interviews with Moss; I'll try to dig them out and see if his comment is mentioned.


                  >


                  > Dick Miller


                  >


                  > --- In Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com, john mccann <crazylucy38@...> wrote:


                  > >


                  > > And Aloha to you too, sir!  (Bowing humbly...)


                  > >


                  > > --- On Sun, 4/18/10, scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...> wrote:


                  > >


                  > > From: scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...>


                  > > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question


                  > > To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com


                  > > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:45 PM


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >  


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >       Aloha John,


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > On 26 May 1957 Moss raced a Maserati 450 S (that is a sports car) in the ADAC


                  > >


                  > > 1000 km at the Nurburgring and lost the left rear wheel/hub.


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > In the 1957 August German GP, also at the Nurburgring, Moss raced a Vanwall. He


                  > >


                  > > did not lose a wheel during this race.


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > Your question was whether Moss had made a wry comment about losing a wheel in


                  > >


                  > > the Dutch GP.


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > I checked all appearances at Zandvort for Moss and he did not lose a wheel


                  > >


                  > > there. Then I checked all instances when Moss was DNF and found only two


                  > >


                  > > references to losing a wheel; Spa in 1956 with a 250 F (that is a GP car) and


                  > >


                  > > ADAC with the sports 450S were all I could find.


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > Perhaps your other web site can be more helpful


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > David


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > Kauai


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > john mccann wrote:


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > > Thanks so much.  I appreciate your checking.  I guess I should tell you that


                  > >


                  > >   (being somewhat obsessive-compulsiv e) I looked for a website to cite on the


                  > >


                  > >   other forum that I mentioned, I found that at the German GP in '57, Moss


                  > >


                  > >   placed 5th in a Vanwall according to


                  > >


                  > >   http://www.grandpri x.com/gpe/ rr062.html.   I (of course!!) am not trying to


                  > >


                  > >   argue or pretend to know more than thee.  But on the off-hand chance you're


                  > >


                  > >   also afflicted with excess worry over trivia--I thought I'd pass that on...


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net> wrote:


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > From: scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>


                  > >


                  > >        Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question


                  > >


                  > >        To: Marlboro_Raceway@ yahoogroups. com


                  > >


                  > >        Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:06 PM


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > Aloha,


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a


                  > >


                  > >        wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a


                  > >


                  > >        450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > Best wishes,


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > David


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > Kauai


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > crazylucy38 wrote:


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found


                  > >


                  > >        this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I


                  > >


                  > >        cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road


                  > >


                  > >        racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.


                  > >


                  > >        >


                  > >


                  > >        > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch


                  > >


                  > >        Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is a


                  > >


                  > >        wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to


                  > >


                  > >        recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group but


                  > >


                  > >        cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized


                  > >


                  > >        that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came from


                  > >


                  > >        his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."


                  > >


                  > >        >


                  > >


                  > >        > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen the


                  > >


                  > >        way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?


                  > >


                  > >        >


                  > >


                  > >        > Thanx


                  > >


                  > >        >


                  > >


                  > >        > ------------ --------- --------- ------


                  > >


                  > >        >


                  > >


                  > >        > Yahoo! Groups Links


                  > >


                  > >        >


                  > >


                  > >        >


                  > >


                  > >        >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > >


                  > > >


                  > >


                  > > >


                  > >


                  > > >


                  > >


                  >


                  > ------------------------------------


                  >


                  > Yahoo! Groups Links


                  >


                  >


                  >





                • scshmoo@earthlink.net
                  Aloha Sam, No luck. Walker got the 18 just before Monaco 1960 and Moss won the race. At Zandvoort in 1960 Brabham hit a curb and threw up a chunk that crashed
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 20, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Aloha Sam,

                    No luck. Walker got the 18 just before Monaco 1960 and Moss won the race.

                    At Zandvoort in 1960 Brabham hit a curb and threw up a chunk that crashed into
                    Moss' left front wheel bursting the tire. He made it back to the pits and the
                    wheel was changed.

                    At Spa shortly after the left rear axle broke. He mentions that he did not know
                    what happened, but that the car spun violently. When he was backwards he writes,
                    " I remember the wheel and axle bounding away." He was busy bracing for the
                    impending crash... then his head snapped backwards.

                    He wrote in his diary:

                    "Shunt

                    Nose
                    Back
                    Legs
                    Bruises

                    Bugger!"

                    Otherwise he was very successful with the 18 and the 18/21. Winning most of the
                    races in 1960-61 or finishing near the front.

                    Regards,

                    David

                    Kauai

                    Sam_Smith01@... wrote:

                    > Good evening old friends,
                    > Two comments on the wheels getting ahead us at an inopportune time:
                    > First, I do remember reading Moss saying that while driving a Lotus 18 F-1 I
                    > think, a wheel came off and passed him. Just a thought!
                    > Second, I crewed for a light blue Alfa Giulietta Spider - owned and raced by
                    > Frank Miller - Frank and Dick Clapp who also used a Giulietta Spider
                    > participated in the 65 or 66 Marlboro 6 hour Joe Richardson and Ernie Johnson
                    > also crewed on this effort - anyway, early in the evening Frank was headed
                    > down the back straight toward creek bend when he felt a thump on braking and
                    > watched his right rear wheel and tire pass by going for a swim in the creek. -
                    > many white flags latter Franks Alfa was back in the infield - We had to get
                    > the corner workers to brave the creek wild life to retrieve the wheel and tire
                    > so that we could pull the tire and put it on a "better" wheel so we could
                    > proceed - they did and we did - finish well down in the order but we did
                    > finish - I built the motor - pretty stock - Frank loved to try trick engine
                    > build ideas - but most caused the rods to attempt escape - We had it pretty
                    > good back when
                    > Regards,
                    > Sam Smith
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: scshmoo@...
                    > To: Marlboro Raceway
                    > Sent: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:20:00 +0000 (UTC)
                    > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Off-Topic Question
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Aloha Richard,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Just checked my copy of 9/56 R&T.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Cahier reports that Moss' 250 F broke the de Dion tube and lost a wheel.
                    > Cahier notes, "...Moss jumped out like a jack-in-the-box and as he was
                    > sprinting past back towards the pits, he told me, 'I'm getting another
                    > car....'"
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > So that is the quote from that race
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Best wishes,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > David
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Kauai
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Richard wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > I was an R&T subscriber in 1956, but I can't remember the article on the
                    > 1956 Belgian GP that might have included Moss's comments about losing the
                    > wheel, and I did not keep my copies of R&T to research the articles. The race
                    > was on June 3, 1956, so I imagine the R&T report on the race would have been
                    > in the Sep or Oct 1956 issue. I suggest you go to the R&T Forums
                    > (http://forums.roadandtrack.com) and ask any readers that have archived copies
                    > to research those issues. If that fails, contact R&T web site - they must
                    > have archives of all copies somewhere.
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > After losing the wheel, Moss ran back to the pits, took over Cesare
                    > Perdisa's Maserati 250F and eventually finished 3rd in the race behind Peter
                    > Collins and Paul Frere (the longtime R&T European contributor) in Lancia
                    > Ferrari D50s. The 3rd place 5 points were split 3 for Moss and 2 for Perdisa
                    > (Source: http://www.manipef1.com/grandprix/1956/belgium/). A good summary of
                    > the race is at Grand Prix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr052.html).
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > There is an excellent Google video showing Moss's Maserati with the wheel
                    > missing and he running back to the pits at Eau Rouge (it was fortunate he lost
                    > the wheel so close to the pits, but the Eau Rouge right hand turn would
                    > certainly put the most force on the left rear wheel). URL for video:
                    > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6729741841437403541#
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > I have several videos containing interviews with Moss; I'll try to dig them
                    > out and see if his comment is mentioned.
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > Dick Miller
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > --- In Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com, john mccann <crazylucy38@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > And Aloha to you too, sir!*Ç (Bowing humbly...)
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > --- On Sun, 4/18/10, scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > From: scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...>
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
                    >
                    >
                    > > > To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:45 PM
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > *Ç
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Aloha John,
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > On 26 May 1957 Moss raced a Maserati 450 S (that is a sports car) in the
                    > ADAC
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > 1000 km at the Nurburgring and lost the left rear wheel/hub.
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > In the 1957 August German GP, also at the Nurburgring, Moss raced a
                    > Vanwall. He
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > did not lose a wheel during this race.
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Your question was whether Moss had made a wry comment about losing a wheel
                    > in
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > the Dutch GP.
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > I checked all appearances at Zandvort for Moss and he did not lose a wheel
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > there. Then I checked all instances when Moss was DNF and found only two
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > references to losing a wheel; Spa in 1956 with a 250 F (that is a GP car)
                    > and
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > ADAC with the sports 450S were all I could find.
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Perhaps your other web site can be more helpful
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > David
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Kauai
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > john mccann wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > > Thanks so much. I appreciate your checking. I guess I should tell you
                    > that
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > (being somewhat obsessive-compulsiv e) I looked for a website to cite on
                    > the
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > other forum that I mentioned, I found that at the German GP in '57, Moss
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > placed 5th in a Vanwall according to
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > http://www.grandpri x.com/gpe/ rr062.html. I (of course!!) am not
                    > trying to
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > argue or pretend to know more than thee. But on the off-hand chance
                    > you're
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > also afflicted with excess worry over trivia--I thought I'd pass that
                    > on...
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > From: scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > To: Marlboro_Raceway@ yahoogroups. com
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:06 PM
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Aloha,
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > 450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Best wishes,
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > David
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Kauai
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > crazylucy38 wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is
                    > a
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group
                    > but
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came
                    > from
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen
                    > the
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > > > way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?
                    >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
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                    > > > > Thanx
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                    > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
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                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                  • Sam_Smith01@comcast.net
                    Thanks David :) just havin fun here :) ... From: scshmoo@earthlink.net To: Marlboro Raceway Sent: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:44:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re:
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 20, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks David :) just havin fun here :)

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: scshmoo@...
                      To: Marlboro Raceway
                      Sent: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:44:31 +0000 (UTC)
                      Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Off-Topic Question









                       

                      Aloha Sam,



                      No luck. Walker got the 18 just before Monaco 1960 and Moss won the race.



                      At Zandvoort in 1960 Brabham hit a curb and threw up a chunk that crashed into


                      Moss' left front wheel bursting the tire. He made it back to the pits and the


                      wheel was changed.



                      At Spa shortly after the left rear axle broke. He mentions that he did not know


                      what happened, but that the car spun violently. When he was backwards he writes,


                      " I remember the wheel and axle bounding away." He was busy bracing for the


                      impending crash... then his head snapped backwards.



                      He wrote in his diary:



                      "Shunt



                      Nose


                      Back


                      Legs


                      Bruises



                      Bugger!"



                      Otherwise he was very successful with the 18 and the 18/21. Winning most of the


                      races in 1960-61 or finishing near the front.



                      Regards,



                      David



                      Kauai

                      Sam_Smith01@... wrote:



                      > Good evening old friends,


                      > Two comments on the wheels getting ahead us at an inopportune time:


                      > First, I do remember reading Moss saying that while driving a Lotus 18 F-1 I


                      > think, a wheel came off and passed him. Just a thought!


                      > Second, I crewed for a light blue Alfa Giulietta Spider - owned and raced by


                      > Frank Miller - Frank and Dick Clapp who also used a Giulietta Spider


                      > participated in the 65 or 66 Marlboro 6 hour Joe Richardson and Ernie Johnson


                      > also crewed on this effort - anyway, early in the evening Frank was headed


                      > down the back straight toward creek bend when he felt a thump on braking and


                      > watched his right rear wheel and tire pass by going for a swim in the creek. -


                      > many white flags latter Franks Alfa was back in the infield - We had to get


                      > the corner workers to brave the creek wild life to retrieve the wheel and tire


                      > so that we could pull the tire and put it on a "better" wheel so we could


                      > proceed - they did and we did - finish well down in the order but we did


                      > finish - I built the motor - pretty stock - Frank loved to try trick engine


                      > build ideas - but most caused the rods to attempt escape - We had it pretty


                      > good back when


                      > Regards,


                      > Sam Smith


                      >


                      > ----- Original Message -----


                      > From: scshmoo@...


                      > To: Marlboro Raceway


                      > Sent: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:20:00 +0000 (UTC)


                      > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Re: Off-Topic Question


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > Aloha Richard,


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > Just checked my copy of 9/56 R&T.


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > Cahier reports that Moss' 250 F broke the de Dion tube and lost a wheel.


                      > Cahier notes, "...Moss jumped out like a jack-in-the-box and as he was


                      > sprinting past back towards the pits,  he told me, 'I'm getting another


                      > car....'"


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > So that is the quote from that race


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > Best wishes,


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > David


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > Kauai


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > Richard wrote:


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > > I was an R&T subscriber in 1956, but I can't remember the article on the


                      > 1956 Belgian GP that might have included Moss's comments about losing the


                      > wheel, and I did not keep my copies of R&T to research the articles.  The race


                      > was on June 3, 1956, so I imagine the R&T report on the race would have been


                      > in the Sep or Oct 1956 issue.  I suggest you go to the R&T Forums


                      > (http://forums.roadandtrack.com) and ask any readers that have archived copies


                      > to research those issues.  If that fails, contact R&T web site - they must


                      > have archives of all copies somewhere.


                      >


                      >


                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > After losing the wheel, Moss ran back to the pits, took over Cesare


                      > Perdisa's Maserati 250F and eventually finished 3rd in the race behind Peter


                      > Collins and Paul Frere (the longtime R&T European contributor) in Lancia


                      > Ferrari D50s.  The 3rd place 5 points were split 3 for Moss and 2 for Perdisa


                      > (Source: http://www.manipef1.com/grandprix/1956/belgium/).  A good summary of


                      > the race is at Grand Prix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr052.html).


                      >


                      >


                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > There is an excellent Google video showing Moss's Maserati with the wheel


                      > missing and he running back to the pits at Eau Rouge (it was fortunate he lost


                      > the wheel so close to the pits, but the Eau Rouge right hand turn would


                      > certainly put the most force on the left rear wheel).  URL for video:


                      > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6729741841437403541#


                      >


                      >


                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > I have several videos containing interviews with Moss; I'll try to dig them


                      > out and see if his comment is mentioned.


                      >


                      >


                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > Dick Miller


                      >


                      >


                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > --- In Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com, john mccann <crazylucy38@...>


                      > wrote:


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > And Aloha to you too, sir!*Ç  (Bowing humbly...)


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > --- On Sun, 4/18/10, scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...> wrote:


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > From: scshmoo@... <scshmoo@...>


                      >


                      >


                      > > > Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question


                      >


                      >


                      > > > To: Marlboro_Raceway@yahoogroups.com


                      >


                      >


                      > > > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:45 PM


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > *Ç


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


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                      > > >


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                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >       Aloha John,


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > On 26 May 1957 Moss raced a Maserati 450 S (that is a sports car) in the


                      > ADAC


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > 1000 km at the Nurburgring and lost the left rear wheel/hub.


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > In the 1957 August German GP, also at the Nurburgring, Moss raced a


                      > Vanwall. He


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > did not lose a wheel during this race.


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > Your question was whether Moss had made a wry comment about losing a wheel


                      > in


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > the Dutch GP.


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > I checked all appearances at Zandvort for Moss and he did not lose a wheel


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > there. Then I checked all instances when Moss was DNF and found only two


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > references to losing a wheel; Spa in 1956 with a 250 F (that is a GP car)


                      > and


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > ADAC with the sports 450S were all I could find.


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > Perhaps your other web site can be more helpful


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > David


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > Kauai


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > john mccann wrote:


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > > Thanks so much.  I appreciate your checking.  I guess I should tell you


                      > that


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >   (being somewhat obsessive-compulsiv e) I looked for a website to cite on


                      > the


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >   other forum that I mentioned, I found that at the German GP in '57, Moss


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >   placed 5th in a Vanwall according to


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >   http://www.grandpri x.com/gpe/ rr062.html.   I (of course!!) am not


                      > trying to


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >   argue or pretend to know more than thee.  But on the off-hand chance


                      > you're


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >   also afflicted with excess worry over trivia--I thought I'd pass that


                      > on...


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > --- On Sat, 4/17/10, scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>


                      > wrote:


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > From: scshmoo@earthlink. net <scshmoo@earthlink. net>


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        Subject: Re: [Marlboro_Raceway] Off-Topic Question


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        To: Marlboro_Raceway@ yahoogroups. com


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 10:06 PM


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > Aloha,


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > While the wit is droll as Moss often is, the two times he lost a


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        wheel were Spa 1956 in a 250 F and then at Nurburgring in 1957 in a


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        450S. Both times the wheel/hub flew off behind the car.


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > Best wishes,


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > David


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > Kauai


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > crazylucy38 wrote:


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > > > I'm a lurker here, loved Marlboro back in the early '60s and found


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        this group pretty much by accident. Now I have a question that I


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        cannot find an answer for. But so many wonderful historians of road


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        racing are here maybe I can ask you guys.


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        > In the early '60s or very late '50s at Zandvoort, for the Dutch


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        Grand Prix, Stirling Moss lost a wheel and wrecked badly. There is


                      > a


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        wonderful remark, in the sense of too-too-English, that I seem to


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        recall from that event, which I quoted on another internet group


                      > but


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        cannot actually document. Stirling looked to his side and realized


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        that the wheel that was passing him unattached to any car--came


                      > from


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        his (?) Cooper. And he said: "I knew I was in a spot of bother."


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        > Can anyone tell me if I'm full of sh*t here or did this happen


                      > the


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        way I recall reading about it in Road & Track way way back then?


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        > Thanx


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        > ------------ --------- --------- ------


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        > Yahoo! Groups Links


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >        >


                      >


                      >


                      > > >


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                      >


                      > > >        >


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                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      > > ------------------------------------


                      >


                      >


                      > >


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                      >


                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links


                      >


                      >


                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      > >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >


                      >





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